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After 3 weeks of searching for a SuB


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59 replies to this topic

#1 of 60 OFFLINE   jwill242004

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Posted December 12 2006 - 04:57 AM

Well after countless up until 4 a.m. nights researching the perfect sub for my budget, it all pointed toward SVS....that is until i saw the Holiday sale on the HSU STF-3. Now my problem is this, how the heck do I decide between the two.

Requirements:

Very deep, low, and powerful bass extension (which both companies seem to fullfill)

For $530 shipped im leaning my way towards the HSU. I need some feedback here comparing the two I had in mind. I know both will be great additions and I will probably be happy with either one. But for the Low end that Im lacking what would be better (comparing the prices) Keep in mind that my HT room is very large and open. WIll the HSU be able to reproduce the low frequencys with authority in this case?? Am I able to have the HSU tuned from the factory lower to help it produce lower extension??

I was leaning towards a SVS 25-31 PC Plus, however the price difference between the sale on the STF-3 is significant. Will the additional $$$ for the SVS be worth it in performance???

Thanks for any replies!!


J

#2 of 60 OFFLINE   afviper

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Posted December 12 2006 - 05:07 AM

HSU is introducing a new line of subwoofers, the MK3. The VTF2 MK3 seems to be within your budget, and will probobly be better than the STF3. I am not allowed to post links, just go to the HSU website, forum, general discussion and news, and the thread titled: A New Era for Hsu Research!!!

#3 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 05:42 AM

The STF-3 is natively tuned for 25Hz opperation, so you are defintely not going to get the same depth or output anywhere near that of the SVS Plus line. When they tune the sub lower, you also lose a little bit of output. Just things to be aware of. There was a considerable difference between the VTF-3 MkII and the 20-39Plus I heard.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#4 of 60 OFFLINE   jwill242004

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Posted December 12 2006 - 06:17 AM

Considerable difference between the VTF and 20-39 Plus? What kinda difference are we talking about, the VTF outperformed the SVS?? Or Visa Versa?

#5 of 60 OFFLINE   Chris Quinn

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Posted December 12 2006 - 07:24 AM

Spend the extra $50 for the intro price of the just announced today VTF-3 Mk3. Link.

#6 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 07:26 AM

Like I said, you are not going to get nearly the same output from the VTF-3 as you will from anything in the Plus lineup. You would probably need to step up to the VTF-3 HO (High Output) to achieve the same output as a Plus.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#7 of 60 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted December 12 2006 - 08:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Garcia
Like I said, you are not going to get nearly the same output from the VTF-3 as you will from anything in the Plus lineup. You would probably need to step up to the VTF-3 HO (High Output) to achieve the same output as a Plus.

Illka's testing says otherwise. The VTF-3MK2 is at least on par with with the single driver Pluses:
http://www.hometheat...ubwoofer-tests/

With the testing that craigsub has done with the HO/turbo combo and it beating out the Plus/2 in the deep bass, I would think the VTF-3MK3 without the Turbo would do the same with the single driver PB12-Plus.

He makes a brief mention of it in this thread:
http://www.avsforum....ad.php?t=767149

And a search will show his testing.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#8 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 08:47 AM

I'm just telling you what I heard as well. Both were in similar size areas, with almost identical receivers. I didn't take readings on the VTF-3, but it did not have the same level output. Depth yes, but output no.

I'm very curious to hear the MkIIIs now though Posted Image
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 60 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Garcia
I'm just telling you what I heard as well. Both were in similar size areas, with almost identical receivers. I didn't take readings on the VTF-3, but it did not have the same level output. Depth yes, but output no.

I'm very curious to hear the MkIIIs now though Posted Image
Understood...but how can you compare that way? Were volume levels and calibrations identical? In-room FR's? Placement? So many variables when things are not done side by side and without equal calibration.

Illka's testing was outdoors and objective.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#10 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:36 AM

Basically we cranked both systems to excessive levels. You are correct, comparison was not under perfect and identical testing conditions. In room FRs both relatively flat. I ran the FR on the Plus myself, and it has output similar to my Tempest in the 20s. I didn't have time to run a FR of the VTF-3.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#11 of 60 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:53 AM

Jason

CurtisSC has this right. Contact HSU and ask about the special deal on the VTF-3MKII. It is flat to at least 18Hz OUTDOORS per Ilkka. You will not be sorry.

Please feel free to PM me for some additional information...

#12 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:55 AM

I've OWNED the VTF-2 and there is no way it would hit 18Hz with any authority. It struggled in the low 20s in my room.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#13 of 60 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:10 AM

JG

My bad. I meant the VTF-3MKII.

#14 of 60 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:14 AM

Here are the old and new lineup that someone posted:

Quote:
I thought this might help sort out the physical differences (lord knows I needed to sort it out for myself )...edit: let me know if anything is wrong. Is the MBM supposed to have it's own unique cabinet? Or is it missing a half inch on height?

(add $100 to each for with turbo price)

New Lineup
VTF-3 HO....12" XBL2 driver...500w amp...dual 4" ports...21.5”x17”x25” HxWxD...9137.5 cu in....93lbs - $899
VTF-3 Mk3...12" driver..........350w amp...dual 4" ports...21.5”x17”x25” HxWxD...9137.5 cu in....xxlbs) - $649 (intro)
VTF-2 Mk3...12" driver..........250w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0”x15”x23” HxWxD...7590 cu in.......xxlbs) - $469 (intro)
VTF-1.........10" driver..........200w amp...dual 3" ports...19.5”x14”x18” HxWxD...4914 cu in.......xxlbs) - $379 (intro)
MBM-12......12" light driver....350w amp...one 4" port.....19.0”x14”x18” HxWxD...4788 cu in.......xxlbs) - $399

Old Lineup for comparison's sake:
VTF-3 Mk2...12" driver..........350w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0”x15”x23” HxWxD...7590 cu in.......80lbs) - $699
STF-3.........12" driver..........300w amp...dual 3" ports...22.0”x15”x23” HxWxD...7590 cu in.......78lbs) - $599
VTF-2 Mk2...10" driver..........250w amp...dual 3" ports...19.5”x14”x18” HxWxD...4914 cu in.......57lbs) - $499
STF-2.........10" driver..........200w amp...one 3" port.....19.5”x14”x18” HxWxD...4914 cu in.......44lbs) - $399
STF-1.........8" driver............150w amp...one 3" port.....19.0”x11”x16” HxWxD...3344 cu in.......35lbs) - $299

curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#15 of 60 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Garcia
Basically we cranked both systems to excessive levels. You are correct, comparison was not under perfect and identical testing conditions. In room FRs both relatively flat. I ran the FR on the Plus myself, and it has output similar to my Tempest in the 20s. I didn't have time to run a FR of the VTF-3.
I have no doubt of your comparison, but I am not sure that is very valid. In the least you have to check the calibration.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#16 of 60 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:24 AM

Well if someone will just send me a VTF-3 MkII I will do the testing Posted Image

I'm most interested in the VTF-2 MKIII now. Sounds like a heavy contender in the price range!

Due to my move and subsequent construction, my whole system has been dormant for the past ~3 weeks. It is painful to look at my sub just sitting there doing nothing and seeing my receiver and amps in boxes...
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#17 of 60 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Garcia
Due to my move and subsequent construction, my whole system has been dormant for the past ~3 weeks. It is painful to look at my sub just sitting there doing nothing and seeing my receiver and amps in boxes...
Geez...forget the new stuff. Not being able to listen to you system needs to be fixed first.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#18 of 60 OFFLINE   Jeff Adams

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Posted December 13 2006 - 04:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwill242004
Well after countless up until 4 a.m. nights researching the perfect sub for my budget, it all pointed toward SVS....that is until i saw the Holiday sale on the HSU STF-3. Now my problem is this, how the heck do I decide between the two.

Requirements:

Very deep, low, and powerful bass extension (which both companies seem to fullfill)

For $530 shipped im leaning my way towards the HSU. I need some feedback here comparing the two I had in mind. I know both will be great additions and I will probably be happy with either one. But for the Low end that Im lacking what would be better (comparing the prices) Keep in mind that my HT room is very large and open. WIll the HSU be able to reproduce the low frequencys with authority in this case?? Am I able to have the HSU tuned from the factory lower to help it produce lower extension??

I was leaning towards a SVS 25-31 PC Plus, however the price difference between the sale on the STF-3 is significant. Will the additional $$$ for the SVS be worth it in performance???

Thanks for any replies!!


J

I am in the exact same boat. I actually have an HSU STF-3 being shipped out to me on Friday but after the SVS demo I got yesterday, I might just change my mind. As far as your choice between the STF-3 and the SVS 25-31 PC PLUS. It really isn't a fair comparison, the SVS would probably spank it. A more fair comparison when it comes to performance and price would probably be an SVS 25-31 PCI, 20-39 PCI or PB12-NSD. I listened to the PB12 NSD and was blown away by it.

Alos, I talked to the good Dr. yesterday. Dr. HSU himself, and he said that the STF-3 is still one of the better performing subs when comparing it to the new VTF-2 MK3. So if I were going to go with the HSU, I would still go with the current STF-3, $532 shipped to your door is a steal.
"I'm your Huckleberry"

#19 of 60 OFFLINE   jwill242004

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Posted December 13 2006 - 04:55 AM

I just spoke with Dr. HSU this morning and hes pretty much got me sold on the VTF3 MK3 (new intro offer) , however pretty much doesnt mean for sure. He assured me that this new sub would blow away the VTF3 MK2 in LFE. Also the side firing design of the new MK3 is a nice feature because of my thick carpet that I would be placing the downfiring MK2 on. When I originally called I was inquiring about the MK2 and basicly for a difference of $57 for the MK3(the MK3 is more expensive to ship than the smaller MK2), the upgrade is a no brainer....or so he says.

Now is the cost of the MK3 ($739 shipped) worth it terms of performance compared to the STF3 which as you said is an awesome deal, as its $200 cheaper. I havent heard either of these subs and will not get the chance to unfortunately unless its in my home. Is it worth it to go ahead and take the deal on the STF3, get it in the house and listen to it. I might be completely satisfied with it be thanking god I didnt spend the extra 200 on the MK3, if Im not happy with it just return it and pay to ship it back (that would suck)

Should I just suck it up and spend the extra 200 and know for sure that I will be satisfied with the output.

These decisions are very hard to make as you know!!

#20 of 60 OFFLINE   Jeff Adams

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Posted December 13 2006 - 04:58 AM

I hear ya. They are tough decisions. Me personally, I would go with the STF-3. But I am leaning more towards the SVS route as of right now. I just can't deny the sheer impact and deep strong bass I heard yesterday.
"I'm your Huckleberry"


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