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Noob Question - HD and Component!


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19 replies to this topic

#1 of 20 OFFLINE   froggi3

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Posted December 03 2006 - 09:19 AM

Hello all,

Fantastic site, very informative and well laid out. I have a benq pb 6110 projector, what I'd like to know is if I connect a HD or Blu Ray DVD player via component input, will I get true HD video? The projector is rated at 720p, what I had heard was that you only get true(good) HD resolution through HDMI, is this correct?

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted December 03 2006 - 09:58 AM

Quote:
what I had heard was that you only get true(good) HD resolution through HDMI, is this correct?
It's not correct. You get the full resolution via component, because the studios have chosen not to implement the image restraint token for analog output.

#3 of 20 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted December 03 2006 - 12:26 PM

Yes, the implementation of the image restraint flag is something that "may" occur in a couple of years. It is up to the studios to do this although if they do it now, they would be shooting themselves in the foot with HD DVD and Blu-Ray still in their infancy and with so many hdtv's with no hdmi and only with component.

The image will of course be downconverted to 720p as that is the native resolution of your projector.
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#4 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted December 03 2006 - 05:08 PM

Richard and Neil have answered your question and I agree with their responses. The only thing that I would add to this (and which might be the cause of some of the confusion although I doubt it in this case) is that one theoretical advantage of using HDMI from a digital source to a digital display is that the video signal path doesn't have to go through any Digital -> Analog (D/A) and then Analog -> Digital (A/D) conversions and remains in the digital domain throughout. With component output being an analog output these conversions are inevitable. On paper, fewer conversions lessens the chance of degrading the video signal and maybe this would show up with some test equipment and test patterns. However, in real world viewing the average viewer - even one with a fairly critical eye - would be hard pressed to tell the difference in an HD image from an analog output from its digital counterpart.

Like I said, the theory supports HDMI HD as being the better choice, but component video is quite capable at delivering the same HD resolution as long as the image restraint flag is left out of the picture.
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#5 of 20 OFFLINE   froggi3

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Posted December 04 2006 - 11:20 AM

Thanks for the help people, it's much appreciated. I have to go out and buy a HD DVD player now! My wife will kill me.Posted Image

#6 of 20 OFFLINE   Jeff Adkins

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Posted December 11 2006 - 09:44 AM

Just keep in mind that you can't upscale standard DVDs via component with the an HD-DVD or BD player...you'll need the Oppo 970 to do that.

#7 of 20 OFFLINE   buggs

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Posted December 12 2006 - 08:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Adkins
Just keep in mind that you can't upscale standard DVDs via component with the an HD-DVD or BD player...you'll need the Oppo 970 to do that.


I did not know that! HD-DVD and BD will not upscale using component. Well, in my opinion that pretty much does the component in, unless you want to run two DVD player (or three if you cannot choose a HD platform)

My problem is that my receiver does not have HDMI - it is only a year old so replacing it is not much of an option at this time. Independantly, I can go directly from the player to the Z5 projector with HDMI and from the player to the receiver for sound - what a pain!

#8 of 20 OFFLINE   PattyFraser

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:15 AM

The oppo 970 will upscale my SD via component? I am sooo there. Hope it's not too costly.

edited to add: Just checked this out via Amazon. The price is right, but they say it upconverts via HDMI. So...what's the deal, my friends?

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted December 12 2006 - 09:22 AM

This is probably one of the ways that HD DVD and Blu-ray are "weaning" people away from component, that and the upcoming implementation of the image restraint flag that will prevent full hi-def via component.
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#10 of 20 OFFLINE   PattyFraser

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Posted December 12 2006 - 10:17 AM

But does this oppo also upconvert via component and it just doesn't say that? Inquiring (and clueless) minds want to know. If it does, this is my Christmas present to myself.

#11 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted December 12 2006 - 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PattyFraser
But does this oppo also upconvert via component and it just doesn't say that? Inquiring (and clueless) minds want to know. If it does, this is my Christmas present to myself.

It's pretty clear from the specs statement on the 970 that it doesn't upconvert via component. Here's the statement taken from their site:
Quote:
Component Video**: Y/Pb/Pr, NTSC 480i/480p/720p/1080i, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i. Component output for CSS-encrypted DVD discs (almost all commercially pressed DVD discs) is limited to 480i/480p only.
What may be confusing you is that it states "NTSC 480i/480p/720p/1080i, PAL 576i/576p/720p/1080i" in the above specs. That is in reference to the 970 having the ability to pass through any of those resolutions if they are contained on the source material, not upconvert them from 480i (native format of SD discs). You'll notice that the last sentence of the spec cited specifically mentions the 480i/p limitation.

If you want to upconvert 480i/p component from the 970 or the HD-DVD and Blu-ray players at this point you need to use an external video processor (like my DVDO VP-50 or similar) but that a whole different situation and something I've been talking about over in this thread.

I hope that some of this helps.
RAF
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#12 of 20 OFFLINE   PattyFraser

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Posted December 12 2006 - 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAF
I hope that some of this helps.

It does indeed. Thanks very much.

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   Jeff Adkins

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Posted December 12 2006 - 06:30 PM

Quote:
If you want to upconvert 480i/p component from the 970 or the HD-DVD and Blu-ray players at this point you need to use an external video processor (like my DVDO VP-50 or similar) but that a whole different situation and something I've been talking about over in this thread.

Actually you just need to flash it with hacked firmware that allows it to pass 1080i through component. It takes all of about 3 minutes and works like a charm.

Scroll down this page and you'll find the link to the firmware and instructions.

Also it can be made region free by doing the following:

Press Setup on remote control to access the setup page
Enter 9210 on the remote
A secret menu will pop up
Select 0 to 6 in region code (0 is region free)
Press Setup on remote again to exit

EDIT: I should have explained that I was referring to the Oppo 970 and not any of the BD or HD-DVD players.

#14 of 20 OFFLINE   David_p_S

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Posted December 20 2006 - 03:59 PM

I don't understand the point of upconverting an SD 480i/p dvd... The tv is going to do this anyways to convert it to it's native resolution. Upconverting in the dvd player is not going to improve the picture unless the chip in the dvd player is better than the chip in the tv. I would bet the farm that most $2k+ TVs will do a better job at this than a player... am I wrong?

#15 of 20 OFFLINE   Kevin M

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Posted December 21 2006 - 04:00 AM

All I can tell you is that with a good upconverting DVD player I consistently get a better image that simply letting the TV do it by itself, maybe it's a better chip-set or maybe it's because the player does the upconversion before it is sent out to the tv, I don't know.
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#16 of 20 OFFLINE   MarekM

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Posted December 21 2006 - 04:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_p_S
I don't understand the point of upconverting an SD 480i/p dvd... The tv is going to do this anyways to convert it to it's native resolution. Upconverting in the dvd player is not going to improve the picture unless the chip in the dvd player is better than the chip in the tv. I would bet the farm that most $2k+ TVs will do a better job at this than a player... am I wrong?


there are dvd players, doing upconverting much better then TV
(quality depends on chips used for upconversion...)

Marek

#17 of 20 OFFLINE   RAF

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Posted December 21 2006 - 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_p_S
I don't understand the point of upconverting an SD 480i/p dvd... The tv is going to do this anyways to convert it to it's native resolution. Upconverting in the dvd player is not going to improve the picture unless the chip in the dvd player is better than the chip in the tv. I would bet the farm that most $2k+ TVs will do a better job at this than a player... am I wrong?

Although not an absolute, I've found that most upconverting DVD players generally contain better video processing (VP) components than the displays. I've seen a lot of A/B comparisons to confirm this. However, I'm sure you could probably find a case or two where the opposite is true, but I'd wager that most of the time the nod goes to the DVD player. The best case, of course, is using an external upgradable video processor, but you are talking serious money for serious results.

And another thing to consider is that when VP circuitry improves (as it seems to every couple of months) even without an external VP it's generally better to have your major video processing in the player rather than in the display. You are much more likely to replace your player before you replace your display - especially a display that cost you several thousand dollars or more.

Just another thing to think about.
RAF
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#18 of 20 OFFLINE   Kevin M

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Posted December 24 2006 - 06:42 PM

I have a question, I own a JVC AV-30W777 HDTV and it seems that 3:2 pulldown is disabled through the progressive component inputs, the feature is allowed through the set's S-Video inputs....is there a reason for this or is it just an anomaly of this set?

Sorry if this question is clueless as I have little understanding of the 3:2 pulldown process or whether it is simply not needed through progressive component outputs.
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#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Royce H

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Posted December 25 2006 - 04:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin M
I have a question, I own a JVC AV-30W777 HDTV and it seems that 3:2 pulldown is disabled through the progressive component inputs, the feature is allowed through the set's S-Video inputs....is there a reason for this or is it just an anomaly of this set?

Sorry if this question is clueless as I have little understanding of the 3:2 pulldown process or whether it is simply not needed through progressive component outputs.

Kevin, any decent progressive-scan player is already doing this as part of the deinterlacing process for film-based material, so your TV turns off its own pulldown/deinterlacing for these signals. S-video, on the other hand, is 480i, so your set deinterlaces it for output. The set's inexpensive deinterlacer circuit probably can't auto-select video or film mode and needs to be told when to perform pulldown. My older Mits HD-ready RPTV works the same way.
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#20 of 20 OFFLINE   Kevin M

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Posted December 25 2006 - 05:49 AM

Thanks Royce, I assumed it was something along those lines but wasn't 100% if that was the case, I guess I should look up a few 3:2 faq's to learn more.
Thank's again.
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