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Anyone else afraid studios will abandon regular DVD in favor of HD?


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#21 of 119 OFFLINE   JeffWld

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Posted November 15 2006 - 04:30 PM

Well of course it doesn't make the grade, it was never meant to. The SD NTSC specification (which we are still using) contemplated a maximum size of 26". And if your 8 foot monster upconverts an SD source, it will always add processing artifacts. What you have purchased caters to specific source material-which does not include the vast majority of available TV product. And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the studios to re-issue their SD back libraries in faux HD format anytime soon....except maybe for "Buffy", which gets 'em everytime.

#22 of 119 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted November 16 2006 - 01:13 AM

Just to add to the chorus: nope. Right now and for the foreseeable future, neither HD nor BluRay have enough market saturation to make it worth any studio's while to produce standard DVD's as well as High Def Versions. Yes, there is one set due to come out (Smallville S5) very soon in the HD format but that is the only one. Look, at some point in the future standard DVD is going to stop being produced. We all agree on that. However, S-DVD will not go away completely as long as the new machines (High Def) can play S-DVD. How many S-DVD machines are there in the USA alone? You think the studios are going to turn their back on that revenue stream in order to kick start High Def? Nope. When and if I upgrade to a new TV, new DVD player and the like AND there is ONE High Def format, then we'll talk. Until then, not even a blip on my radar.

#23 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 02:58 AM

"I would say your looking at atleast another 10 years + of DVD being still on top. Heck it might even take a new format beyond HD and Bluray to surpass regular DVD. The reason it is going to take a very longtime for the HD formats to surpass or catch up is it's not just going out and purchasing the new player , for most people it also requires a new TV aswell. For most people that is not affordable + alot of people are content with what they have at the moment" Thats being a bit shortsided. Many VHS users were thinking the same thing about DVD in about 1998 were is VHS now? 10 Years for DVD is just not possible. Its possible for DVD to still be around in 10 years but not as the major format with the HDTV standard coming into effect in 2+ years most will be upgrading their sets by then and there will be affordable models by then. The sets are down 50% in price already from what they were 4 years ago. Once the majority have HD sets in 2-3 years then there will be a huge demand for HD material. As far as older shows like I love Lucy not being able to look better check out the reviews for the HD version of Casablanca out now. There is a very nice DVD of Casablanca out already that many thought could not look any better but all the reviews indicate the HD version blows the standard DVD away. When it comes to technology there is always room for improvement and we will always be upgrading our equipment and media even though we may not like it. I accepted this back in the 90's in the Laserdisc days and it is even more true now.
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#24 of 119 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted November 16 2006 - 03:40 AM

I don't think it's short sighted - you're comparion isn't fair - you are forgetting about something inbetween VHS and DVD. I think HD-DVD is best compared to LD - LD didn't destroy VHS, in fact, VHS outlasted LD and was still in the market place even after LD was long gone. I don't know if I totally agree with it, but it is possible that SD-DVD will hold out in the market place long after HD is replaced with the next best thing....that next thing is going to be non-physical media or flash drive based media. I can really see HD-DVD being the stepping stone to something better and many of these people who are buying into it are going to find themselves with outdated equipment once HD-DVD is replaced by some other type of hardware that appeals to the average consumer. Again, HD-DVD does not appeal to the average consumer right now. Just like LD, it's lack of mass appeal was it's worst enemy. Unless HD-DVD finds that mass appeal, someone else is going to.

#25 of 119 OFFLINE   Paul Miller

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Posted November 16 2006 - 03:43 AM

No, that is a long way down the road before everyone has an HD DVD player and an HD TV because of the cost. The only show being released that I see eventually abandoning DVD is the Simpsons because I don't see that show stopping any time soon. Paul

#26 of 119 OFFLINE   Paul Miller

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Posted November 16 2006 - 03:51 AM

A big difference though is people have to buy a new TV to really see much of the effect of HD DVD. That wasn't the case as much when the jump from VHS to DVD. Paul

#27 of 119 OFFLINE   Juan Books

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Posted November 16 2006 - 04:28 AM

I have plenty to worry about were studios to start over with HD rather than finish the shows they have put out already and releasing others they have not made available yet.

#28 of 119 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted November 16 2006 - 04:36 AM

Mark, that's a good comparison with LD and the HD "stepping-stone" theory. That may well be how this plays out. For me, I'm not going to move into the HD market until we see at least what format wins the war. After that, I'll still hold out for a while for prices to drop. I was an early LD customer and that format didn't last too long. I have a question that probably belongs on the hardware HTF forums, but I'll ask it here first: Do Std-DVD's look the same when played on an HD player? I read a lot about "up-conversion" and I'm not sure what that's referring to regarding Std-DVD's.

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#29 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 04:53 AM

I didn't leave out LD I mentioned it many times but I said in 1998 LD was just about dead by then and wasn't a factor. VHS didn't die until around 2001 but in 1998 people still thought it would be around for 10 years which it wasn't so it is short sighted to think 90's technology will be around well into the 2010's. Are you still using computers from 10 years ago? Music Cassette Tapes were big 10 years ago. How many are used now? LD is a bad example because its main reason for failure was lack of marketing and lack of hardware support. Pioneer was the only player for far too long and these reasons kept the hardware prices high and that always kept people from investing. This isn't the case with HD. HD has marketing and Hardware support and prices will continue to drop. HD also has a TV mandate coming up making it the new official TV Broadcasting method. LD had none of this. People always like to think something they are using or investing in now will be around forever but that just isn't the case. Technology always advances. HD is not that expensive anymore and is getting cheaper every year. In 2-3 years it will be affordable to nearly everyone. HD may not appeal to the average consumer right now but what new technology ever has. Not DVD. It took 3 years to take off and so will HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. This again is being short sighted.
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#30 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 05:16 AM

If upconverted standard DVD do look a little bit better which is another reason not to fight the new technology because all your old discs will still play in the new machine and look better than they did before. I was an early LD adopter as well bought them from 1986-1999 which I don't consider not lasting long. I enjoyed my LD's for many, many years and have many good memories of watching them and enjoying them. Just because they didn't last longer than 15 years I would never go back in time and stick with awful VHS over LD. Again the LD/HD comparison is an extremely poor comparison to make. This comparison would mean that every new technology product will remain niche and not suceed just because it does not have immediate mass appeal.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

#31 of 119 OFFLINE   Jeff Willis

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Posted November 16 2006 - 05:35 AM

Randy, Thanks for the HD info. And you're right about the LD format life, I'd forgotton about the time frames. I think I'd bought around 50 titles before slowing down my LD purchases. I still have the player (the one that plays both sides without ejecting the discs), and I still like the fact that there are a couple of my titles that still aren't available on widescreen DVD (films, "Timecop", "Charley Varrick" are a couple that come to mind). I'll be much faster to invest in an HD player since they will play Std DVD's as well.

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#32 of 119 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted November 16 2006 - 05:56 AM

Remember, you're not the average consumer. Posted Image The average consumer didn't get into LD. This is the arguement I am making for HD - You need a larger penetration in the marketplace before it's going to be considered the next "Standard".

LD was never the "Standard" due to it's lack of market penetration. It has nothing to do with functionality or quality - It's all dependant on mass consumer accessibility.

I mean, HD-DVD is already out and you can still buy VHS tapes.

#33 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:01 AM

I still have over 1000 LD's I once had over 3000 so I know where you are coming from. I don't blame you for holding out because of the format war and it probably is the best thing to do. But we should have a pretty clear idea who the winner will be this time next year and then the prices will be lower and more titles will be available. I purchased a HD-DVD player even though I still think Blu-Ray will win and be the better format beacuse I did not consider $400.00 a big investment and I could enjoy HD right now until I'm ready for a newer TV in a couple years which will be needed to fully enjoy the new formats. Plus prices will be lower if Blu-Ray wins by then.
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#34 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:01 AM

I still have over 1000 LD's I once had over 3000 so I know where you are coming from. I don't blame you for holding out because of the format war and it probably is the best thing to do. But we should have a pretty clear idea who the winner will be this time next year and then the prices will be lower and more titles will be available. I purchased a HD-DVD player even though I still think Blu-Ray will win and be the better format beacuse I did not consider $400.00 a big investment and I could enjoy HD right now until I'm ready for a newer TV in a couple years which will be needed to fully enjoy the new formats. Plus prices will be lower if Blu-Ray wins by then.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

#35 of 119 OFFLINE   HenryDuBrow

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:02 AM

But do we really want old films to look like they were made yesterday, isn't it enough that new films do? I'm perfectly happy with DVD, and will not be upgrading systems before it's absolutely necessary. It's supposed to be the enjoyment of a film that counts, the experience of it, not so much the picture quality (which is fine as it is now, btw.) Heck, I still buy the odd rare VHS.

#36 of 119 OFFLINE   Randy Korstick

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:08 AM

Yes in 2-3 years there should be HD Players for around $100.00. The TV factor does not count because everyone will eventually be upgrading their TVs to enjoy regular TV broadcasting once the HD mandate takes effect. I don't see that many people buying an adapter to continue watching their old TV that may not last that much longer when they can just purchase a new HD TV which will be affordable by then.
...When you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth

#37 of 119 OFFLINE   Jason Seaver

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:30 AM

In theory, any program that was originated on film could benefit, although in practice, the producers often did just enough to make it look good on NTSC. In some cases - such as sitcoms - stuff from 50 years ago may benefit more than stuff from ten years ago.
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#38 of 119 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:43 AM

It would be nice to imagine, but I wonder if it will actually happen. I'm sure they'll try, but I have to be skeptical and imagine some sort of HD->analog thing being put into place for those who are hanging on to their older TV's. I'm just having a hard time imagining the entire country owning HD sets in 2-3 years.

#39 of 119 OFFLINE   Ric Easton

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Posted November 16 2006 - 06:44 AM

I'm not sure this is even close to true, unless you're talking about Police Squad (6 episodes). Doesn't HD content require a lot more disc space to be HD?

#40 of 119 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted November 16 2006 - 07:15 AM

Yeah, what's the capacity of HD discs? 30GB? I hear Toshiba pushed it to 45GB? Even at that, If you take the SD-DVD capacity of a dual layer is a little over 9GB - if you take most DVD sets that have four discs, you can fit the entire season on an HD disc, only if you maintain data rates equal to the SD-DVD version. So if they are going for full HD quality, they're still going to need several discs to do it.




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