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"Shining" question that's been bugging me for years.....


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#41 of 51 OFFLINE   Jack Johnson

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Posted December 21 2006 - 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony James
There's no need. There is already "bootleg" footage in the making of that clearly shows the scene plays out exactly as it does on the DVD. (As was already noted earlier.)

I thought this ridiculous claim was dead and buried? This is what happens when someone resurrects an old thread.



I checked this out, back in the early day when this debate raged...and the "evidentiary" bootleg footage consists of the camera guy's panning left and right in order to catch the audience's reactions, and--lo and behold--his camera's not on the screen when the shot in question would've appeared.

Sounds crazy? Not half as crazy as the assertion this footage of audience members shrinking into their seats and groaning would settle this debate. We need an unflinching look at a release print--maybe a handful, from across the country to rule out "alternate versions"--preferably the one that played at my local cineplex.

Had I the means to track it down...

#42 of 51 OFFLINE   Mark Booth

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Posted December 21 2006 - 11:06 AM

Returning to the original question for a moment....

IMDB has this on their trivia page for The Shining:

Quote:
The book that Jack was writing contained the one sentence ("All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy") repeated over and over. Stanley Kubrick had each page individually typed. For the Italian version of the film, Kubrick used the phrase "Il mattino ha l' oro in bocca" ("He who wakes up early meets a golden day"). For the German version, it was "Was Du heute kannst besorgen, das verschiebe nicht auf Morgen" ("Never put off till tomorrow what you can do today"). For the Spanish version, it was "No por mucho madrugar amanece más temprano" ("Although one will rise early, it won't dawn sooner."). For the French version, it was "Un 'Tiens' vaut mieux que deux 'Tu l'auras'" ("A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush").

The plot thickens! Posted Image

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#43 of 51 OFFLINE   Chris Minogue

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Posted December 21 2006 - 06:49 PM

I love this thread. I have one that nobody but me seems to remember, so I am probably crazy. The first time I saw Back To The Future Part 3 in theaters I could have sworn there was a scene where Seamus McFly walked Marty to Hill Valley. It's not in any home video incarnation of the movie I have ever seen.

The only possible explanation I have is that I read the novelization around the same the movie came out. However, to this day I remember the scene so vividly that I can't help but swear it was in there.

#44 of 51 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted December 22 2006 - 06:24 AM

Quote:
There's no need. There is already "bootleg" footage in the making of that clearly shows the scene plays out exactly as it does on the DVD. (As was already noted earlier.)

Ah. Well, there you go. Then why are people still debating this? Odd.

Wasn't that interested in the actual argument myself either way. Just seemed odd that an argument like that could exist for such a long time without someone just finding video evidence and putting it to rest. I didn't realize the earlier comment in this thread about the DVD was referring to bootleg footage filmed inside a theater (I'm surprised something like that made it onto an official DVD considering how the studios feel about the practice).
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#45 of 51 OFFLINE   Sean Bryan

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Posted December 22 2006 - 06:30 AM

Quote:
I checked this out, back in the early day when this debate raged...and the "evidentiary" bootleg footage consists of the camera guy's panning left and right in order to catch the audience's reactions, and--lo and behold--his camera's not on the screen when the shot in question would've appeared.

Oh, wait a mintue. If what Mark says here is true (I don't have the DVD) then that would not be the simple proof Anthony indicated. Is there really nothing else out there other than this?
I don't believe in transcending the genre, I believe IN the genre - Joss Whedon

#46 of 51 OFFLINE   Jack Johnson

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Posted December 22 2006 - 07:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bryan
Oh, wait a mintue. If what Mark says here is true (I don't have the DVD) then that would not be the simple proof Anthony indicated. Is there really nothing else out there other than this?


Unless MGM--or whatever studio owns the film--has destroyed all release prints of every incarnation and any footage which may have made it into an "alternate" cut that sneaked through the editing process...and no one out there managed to bootleg it, then I imagine there has to be something (somewhere).

The idea that no such footage was ever shot--and that has been the assertion--well...I'm not buying it. I can't say I know a whole lot about Ridley Scott's shooting practices, but the idea that he would've shot everything BUT the brain cutting isn't plausible when the tendency is to get more than enough coverage to support numerous approaches, be they more explicit or restrained.

#47 of 51 OFFLINE   Jack Johnson

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Posted December 22 2006 - 08:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bryan
Oh, wait a mintue. If what Mark says here is true (I don't have the DVD) then that would not be the simple proof Anthony indicated. Is there really nothing else out there other than this?


Allow me to retract my assertion:

The footage of the official screening on the dvd DOES appear consistent with the cut that's on the dvd, despite the camera panning. I could get enough information from the periphery of the screen to be able to tell which shots were which and--contrary to what I suggested--it seems to play out, shot-for-shot, as does the official dvd version. My bad, and a thousand pardons for misleading anyone.

So I'm left bewildered and a little more willing to suspect I could have this all wrong.

As a possible theory for the birth of a "false memory"--since I really ought to play that side of the coin as well--I could have confused Lecter's cutting into Krendler's grey matter in prep to pull back the brain sac as the origin cut for the crater of missing brain tissue that is seen on the other side of his brain in a subsequent shot. And, in some kind of reverse-bizarro logic I might have thought, well, wait a minute, I could've sworn we saw the cut made to remove that brain matter too; the memory of similar looking scalpel work transposed to that second cut (it would account for the vividness of my "memory"). And, as fueled by advance word from region four, I may have been expecting to see an absence on the dvd I otherwise wouldn't have felt. It's entirely possible.

But then I have the vivid memory of that footage I saw three times at the theater and, well... That's where I officially stand: Not wanting to discount my repeated experience with Hannibal, and understanding how I could have imagined the whole thing. And that's--I'm afraid--where I'm going to have to file this one, where Mulder and Scully can have at it...in that cabinet with an "X" on it.

As for the dvd feature, though... I have to say again: sorry for misleading anyone and for unwarrantedly stoking the fires of controversy.



--Jack

#48 of 51 OFFLINE   CameronMcC

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Posted December 22 2006 - 02:18 PM

bootleg tapes would have been more common than dvd at the time hannibal hit. Not sure if anyone really collects bootleg tapes, but if it happened it seems the net would have shown it by now.

#49 of 51 OFFLINE   Mark_Wilson

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Posted December 23 2006 - 10:49 PM

I had heard the Brazilian release had the alternate ending. I've looked for it for the last three years and haven't been able to find a copy.

Memory is a strange thing. I swear I remember a scene in Star Wars were Luke throws the rope to swing across with Lea. I always remembered him throwing the rope twice, the first missing. However, not sure if that was from the three theaterical showings I saw or the numerous viewings from a bootleg vhs tape from my neighbor.

#50 of 51 OFFLINE   TerryW

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Posted December 24 2006 - 05:16 PM

I saw the Shining during its original theatrical run. I'm fairly certain I saw it on the first Saturday near D.C. but I don't remember that final scene. I was 13 at the time. Did all prints have it for the first two days of release?

Saw Star Wars in '77 when there was no "A New Hope" and BTTF in '85 when there was no "To Be Continued" and when I saw the videos I knew right away they were added. Maybe I suffer from the dreaded 'selective memory in the case of The Shining.'

Edit: This film came out on May 23rd, 1980. I just found out that my dad took my to a showing on my birthday (June 16, 1980) so that scene was already gone for us. Oh, well. At least my memory is holding up. Posted Image
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#51 of 51 OFFLINE   Antony James

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Posted December 26 2006 - 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Wilson
However, not sure if that was from the three theaterical showings I saw or the numerous viewings from a bootleg vhs tape from my neighbor.
Neither.


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