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HD DVD 3X better BLU-RAY 6 X better


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#1 of 20 OFFLINE   JeffdDurborow

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Posted October 16 2006 - 05:13 PM

has anyone seen the signs used in TARGET describing the new HD DVD Discs
and BLU-RAY discs...they mention the xbox 360 hd add on on the hd add
and PS3 on the Blu-ray add (sign)...along with a few other "facts?"
like.....
HD DVD 3 times better than normal dvd
BLU-RAY 6 times better Picture than standard dvd...


anyone else see this..maybe i misread??

#2 of 20 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted October 16 2006 - 06:26 PM

and the difference justifies the price?

AFAIK, both media allow for 1080p video. Some players may be limited to 1080i, but it's not clear that it makes a difference when coupled with a good 3-2 pullldown.

1920*540/(720*480)=3
1920*1080/(720*480)=6

#3 of 20 OFFLINE   RobertDW

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Posted October 16 2006 - 06:48 PM

The sign is totally misleading. It is referring to disc capacity and thus assuming HD DVD is 15GB and BD is 25GB when we all know the HD DVD have from the launch been dual layer 30GB.

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted October 16 2006 - 08:49 PM

WoW! That's totally misleading!

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#5 of 20 OFFLINE   Chris Dugger

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Posted October 17 2006 - 02:43 AM

Once again SONY with the spin machine in full force...

HD-DVD troops are just not stepping up to get the true word out....

Best Buy..... Target...... Curcuit City..... etc.....

This happend to ReplayTV.... a much better DVR....

TIVO turned on the marketing machine... and away they went!

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#6 of 20 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted October 17 2006 - 05:35 AM

I guess we can see what side of the fence Target is on. If this HD war plays out that BD is the loser, no one will remember that ridiculous and misleading advertisement. That can certainly get the J6Ps to believe there's a justification for the huge price difference between the two formats. What a bunch of mopes at Target.
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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted October 17 2006 - 05:50 AM

It doesn't matter if Bluray players can display twice as many pixels, if artifacts cut that advantage down to size. (and yes, it's pixels, not gigabytes. You can check my math, if you'd like)

It's like PBS-HD-- still images are nice and sharp, but shots with motion are a blur of macroblocks. (My local station does HD + 3SD, full time. Sometimes, I must scream)

#8 of 20 OFFLINE   Ryan-G

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Posted October 17 2006 - 07:14 PM

I think what they're commenting on, IIRC, is that the HD-DVD drive is limited to 1080i output, while the BR in PS3 does full 1080p. I don't think the HD-DVD drive has the bandwidth to do 1080p, though I'm not sure if the bottleneck is the USB interface or the video cables. USB 1.0 doesn't have the bandwidth, not sure if USB 2.0 does.

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   RobertDW

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Posted October 17 2006 - 07:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
I think what they're commenting on, IIRC, is that the HD-DVD drive is limited to 1080i output, while the BR in PS3 does full 1080p. I don't think the HD-DVD drive has the bandwidth to do 1080p, though I'm not sure if the bottleneck is the USB interface or the video cables. USB 1.0 doesn't have the bandwidth, not sure if USB 2.0 does.

The HD DVD and BD discs are both encoded at 1080p at 24hz so obviously the HD DVD drive must read the disc thus the drive is not limited to 1080i. BR as you say or BD does not do "full 1080p", both the the Samsung and now the Panasonic BD players drive reads the BD discs and internally output 1080i and internally de-interlace the 1080i signal to 1080p which is exactly the same as any 1080p display will do when using the HD DVD player. USB has nothing to do with the HD DVD players as they output via HDMI.

BTW there will be a 1080p output Toshiba player the HD-XA2 out in Dec. On a good 1080p display there is zero difference in picture quality between 1080i and 1080p.

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   Chris S

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Posted October 18 2006 - 12:52 AM

Not too surprising. We've already seen that stores make more $$ from a single Blu-ray player than a HD-DVD player. And since both HD player sales are still at a relatively low volume they're trying to make the most money they can per square foot of retail space. If that involves confusing people over an already confusing (to some) format war then so be it. Posted Image But to be fair all stores appear to be doing similar things. How many times have you heard a sales person at Best Buy giving completely wrong advice either for or against one of the formats?
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#11 of 20 OFFLINE   JeffdDurborow

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Posted October 18 2006 - 05:23 PM

so you guys have seen this as well???

im lost with the marketing and advertising here..mostly advertising..

here we a have two rows of movies "In the dvd section"
one side you got hd-dvd
one side you have the blu-ray

you have your descriptive signs that talk of the technology and i never see them speak of resolution...to me they use the reference of each disc's capacity and leave the consumer to assume the higher the number of capacity the greater the picture quality..
again im back to questioning the customer who just wants to watch a superior quality high def movie. if he cared how much data he could fit on that disc he would be over in the computer section..

#12 of 20 ONLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted October 18 2006 - 09:02 PM

Quote:
and leave the consumer to assume the higher the number of capacity the greater the picture quality..
Which in a way reminds me of DTS.
After Dolby developed Dolby Digital, the DTS-engineers apparently weren't able to design a coded with the same results at the same level of compression, so they simply needed more disk space.

And then.. apart from those who really listened to the results (and of course we must give proper credit to those who judged by their ears), many consumers simply believed the disadvantage to be an advantage: it has less compression, so it must be better! The "automatic" argument was actually used rather often, much to my surprise.


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#13 of 20 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted October 19 2006 - 02:09 AM

dts and dolby digital have differing ideas of what data to throw out. It's kind of confusing, really. A good many codecs starve the frequencies above 15 kHz, since most adults can't hear high frequencies too well, yet dvd-a and sacd recordings have loads of high frequency data.

I've heard it stated that dts is not (as much) a perceptual codec.

#14 of 20 OFFLINE   Ryan-G

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Posted October 20 2006 - 04:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertDW
The HD DVD and BD discs are both encoded at 1080p at 24hz so obviously the HD DVD drive must read the disc thus the drive is not limited to 1080i. BR as you say or BD does not do "full 1080p", both the the Samsung and now the Panasonic BD players drive reads the BD discs and internally output 1080i and internally de-interlace the 1080i signal to 1080p which is exactly the same as any 1080p display will do when using the HD DVD player. USB has nothing to do with the HD DVD players as they output via HDMI.

BTW there will be a 1080p output Toshiba player the HD-XA2 out in Dec. On a good 1080p display there is zero difference in picture quality between 1080i and 1080p.

Um, from what I've read the HD-DVD drive that MS is using will not include an HDMI port, limiting output to component only.

Further, the drive connects to the X-box 360 via a USB port, making it a potentially limiting factor. I'd don't know what the sustained throughput of USB 2.0 is, but it's entirely possible that USB 2.0 isn't capable of sustaining transfer rates of sufficient speed to support 1080p + (sound).

I think you might have misunderstood that I was discussing the HD-DVD drive add-on for the X-box 360.

#15 of 20 OFFLINE   RobertDW

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Posted October 20 2006 - 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan-G
Um, from what I've read the HD-DVD drive that MS is using will not include an HDMI port, limiting output to component only.

Further, the drive connects to the X-box 360 via a USB port, making it a potentially limiting factor. I'd don't know what the sustained throughput of USB 2.0 is, but it's entirely possible that USB 2.0 isn't capable of sustaining transfer rates of sufficient speed to support 1080p + (sound).

I think you might have misunderstood that I was discussing the HD-DVD drive add-on for the X-box 360.

The HD DVD drive for the xBox can output via component video or VGA (for 1080p output). Also the bandwidth for USB2 is about 380mbps more than fast enough.

#16 of 20 OFFLINE   JackJD

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Posted October 21 2006 - 12:34 PM

Quote:
HD DVD 3 times better than normal dvd
BLU-RAY 6 times better Picture than standard dvd...

I believe it says the HD-DVD disc has 3x, BD 6x MORE STORAGE CAPABILITY...
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#17 of 20 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted October 21 2006 - 01:10 PM

HD-DVD has more storage capability than 3X standard DVD. They are already talking about doing a 45 gb triple layer disc to compete with the BD 50 gb. This is probably just a way for them to market their product better, but that sign is completely misleading.

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   ppltd

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Posted October 23 2006 - 02:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertDW
The HD DVD drive for the xBox can output via component video or VGA (for 1080p output). Also the bandwidth for USB2 is about 380mbps more than fast enough.

You are correct. Transfer rate is not a limiting factor of USB port with regards to the xbox 360. Here is some information on USB 2.

Quote:

4. How fast is USB 2.0?
USB 2.0 has a raw data rate at 480Mbps, and it is rated 40 times faster than its predecessor interface, USB 1.1, which tops at 12Mbps. Originally, USB 2.0 was intended to go only as fast as 240Mbps, but in October 1999, USB 2.0 Promoter Group pumped up the speed to 480Mbps.

As far as we know, effective rate reaches at 40MBps or 320Mbps for bulk transfer on a USB 2.0 hard drive with no one else is sharing the bus.

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#19 of 20 OFFLINE   LarryH

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Posted October 24 2006 - 01:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackJD
I believe it says the HD-DVD disc has 3x, BD 6x MORE STORAGE CAPABILITY...


A minor point but curious if there are different signs: in my Target it seems to say Blu-ray has 5x the storage capacity. Since HD-DVD currently maxes out at 30GB and Blu-ray at 50GB, the sign is correct, even if misleading as to its relevance to picture quality.

#20 of 20 OFFLINE   JackJD

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Posted October 24 2006 - 05:53 PM

Quote:
...my Target it seems to say Blu-ray has 5x the storage capacity.

My Target sign does as well... Sorry, mis-typed. I do agree it is misleading.
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