Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Paradigm 20's v 60's


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
36 replies to this topic

#1 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 14 2006 - 01:42 PM

I'm after some advice on which model paradigms to buy. Currently I have a 5 medium quality speakers running off a Nad 752 (which I've had no problems with). I'd like to retain the 752 for now, but replace the two fronts with some very good sounding stereo speakers for my music. Eventually I'll replace all speakers and get a bigger amp (like the NAD 773).

After a lot of research, I've narrowed it down to paradigm 20's v.3, or paradigm 60's v.3. The 60's are exactly twice the price of the 20's, and will exhaust the budget for now.

I've listened to both, and to my ear, I couldn't detect much difference in the mids and highs, but I noticed the fuller bass in the 60's. I also much prefer the look of the 60's, as my lounge is medium/large and the 20's are going to look fairly ordinary in the middle of that room. The advantage of the 20's would seem to be the 'bang for buck' and as I'd have cash left over, I could buy a good sub to go with them, which would work out slightly less than the 60's by themselves.

What I'd like advice on, is whether the 20's with good sub will outperform the 60's (with or without a sub) and also whether the Nad 752, rated at 150w at 8 ohms in two channel mode, is going to be able to drive the 60's as an interim solution.

#2 of 37 OFFLINE   Seth=L

Seth=L

    Screenwriter



  • 1,313 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 17 2006

Posted October 14 2006 - 02:00 PM

The 20's with a good sub will blow the 60's, by themselves, out of the water. What subs or sub were you looking at?

#3 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 14 2006 - 02:01 PM

Comparable quality/price to a HSU VTF 2

#4 of 37 OFFLINE   Seth=L

Seth=L

    Screenwriter



  • 1,313 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 17 2006

Posted October 14 2006 - 02:31 PM

I had an HSU VTF-2, a very solid performer. Deffinetly the better way to go. I just wanted to be sure you weren't getting a Paradigm PS series sub or something, because those are not worth the money. You may also consider looking into the SVS subs like the PB-10 NSD. It should go deeper than the VTF-2 and people rave about it.

#5 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 14 2006 - 06:52 PM

I've heard the SVS is good, but I'm not really evaluating Subs right now. Speaker choice is the first consideration.

If I bought the 60's, eventually I would add a sub, so I guess it would be fairer to ask whether the 60 + sub is a better combo than the 20 + sub, in a strict musical sense. (Unfortunately I'm not able to listen to them in that set up, so I have to rely on other's advice)
I guess the real question is, assuming the sub used is the same, is the 20 going to outperform the 60 on the mid's and highs?

#6 of 37 OFFLINE   Seth=L

Seth=L

    Screenwriter



  • 1,313 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 17 2006

Posted October 15 2006 - 02:44 AM

The 20's are going to sound tighter, mostly dew to the smaller enclosure. I have heard from a few people the 20's are easier to soundstage and have a much better presentation. Now of coarse they won't beat the 60's on the bass part, but with a sub it will not matter anyway. Also not that many people now set the internal crossover of the receiver to 80Hz and send the rest to the sub for the optimum sound. So the extra bass the 60's have seem will not really be utilized in an optimumal set-up. If I had to choose between the two and they were hypothetically the same price, I think I would get the 20's.

#7 of 37 OFFLINE   mackie

mackie

    Supporting Actor



  • 568 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 07 2004

Posted October 15 2006 - 12:55 PM

If you use acoustic treatments and careful placement the 60's will give you a slight improvment in the bass region around at the crossover point.

If placement options are limited and you're not using room treatments, I would go with 20s becuase they will be easier to place because of size.

The midrange and treble between the two are very,very close to each other.

#8 of 37 OFFLINE   Phil_O

Phil_O

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 135 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 10 2002

Posted October 15 2006 - 01:02 PM

40's? happy medium? I want to upgrade soon from my monitors to a full studio setup!
Denon 3805 | Paradigm Monitor 5's front, CC370, ADP150 rear | Mirage BPS400 sub (the "Legend" I call it! - going strong since 1998!) | Toshiba SD DVD player | Tons of DVDs/CDs! | Nad c541i CDP | Main computer has 1080p 24" monitor, Logitech 5.1 system

#9 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 15 2006 - 09:53 PM

To me, the 40's aren't neccessarily a good choice, based on the above advice they won't sound better or look better than the 20's +sub, and they cost more.

I found this user review of the Studio 60 v.2 which said:

" If I were to purchase again, I think I would go with the Paradigm studio 20's, which are small bookshelfs that have the same tweeter and midrange of the more expensive 60s and lack the 6 inch bass woofer but which are $200 to $400 less the the 60s. I like the 60s immensely, but with my very healthy 15 inch Def Tech sub, I don't think I need any of the Paradigm's lower response, the def tech sub seems to cover it all already."

Which seems to agree with the above posts. Damn! I really wish it was the other way around i.e. 60's noticeably better than the 20's, cos I really really want them to sound better, but I guess they don't Posted Image

#10 of 37 OFFLINE   John Garcia

John Garcia

    Executive Producer



  • 11,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 24 1999
  • Real Name:John
  • LocationNorCal

Posted October 16 2006 - 07:13 AM

They don't sound better than the 20s, but they ARE more sensitive and do extend a little lower, so they far more easily fill a room than the 20s do. Given a choice, I would go with the 40s every time if it was a medium to large room. 20s with a good sub is still a formidable combo too though.

If these are what you are looking at, I'd also throw into the mix, the Ascend CMT-340.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#11 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 16 2006 - 12:45 PM

Thanks for the advice, I thought more people would come out in support of the 60's, strange that that's not the case.

On further analysis, the 40's do sound like an option, although like most people say, once you pay for stands you may as well buy the 60's.

If the sub paired with the 60's is going to be carrying less of the load, then do I need to get as good a sub as I would pair with the 20's?

#12 of 37 OFFLINE   mackie

mackie

    Supporting Actor



  • 568 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 07 2004

Posted October 16 2006 - 01:00 PM

I use 40s for my main L&R speakers. They have a smidgen more presence in the bass region around the crossover point. I would be happy with the 20s that I use for my surronds for my mains too.

BTW the stands the dealer will try and sepp with the 40s are way overpriced. They make another stand they well with the Monitor line that works just as well. There are a lot of <$100 stands available that work just fine.

#13 of 37 OFFLINE   John Garcia

John Garcia

    Executive Producer



  • 11,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 24 1999
  • Real Name:John
  • LocationNorCal

Posted October 16 2006 - 02:29 PM

There are much better stands than what Paradigm offers for less than what Paradigm dealers rake you for.... DEFINITELY the stands they offer for the Studio line are not worth the price IMO. With the Monitor line, I can see stands being a factor (5s vs 7s), but not the Studios.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#14 of 37 OFFLINE   Mickey Brown

Mickey Brown

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 115 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 04 2001

Posted October 17 2006 - 09:19 AM

The 40's have always been the jewel of the studio line. And I'm not just saying that because I own 2 of them.


Well, maybe I am.

I do know that I have traded in studio 20's and was never a big fan of the 60's.

#15 of 37 OFFLINE   Jacob C

Jacob C

    Second Unit



  • 257 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 19 2005

Posted October 17 2006 - 02:05 PM

[quote=Mickey Brown]The 40's have always been the jewel of the studio line. And I'm not just saying that because I own 2 of them.
QUOTE]

I agree 100% with this. The 40's are wonderful. IMO the 100s are great too but if you are using a sub there is no point. I almost bought the 40's before I discovered Ascend Acoustics.
Jacob
--------------------------------

#16 of 37 OFFLINE   Dan Driscoll

Dan Driscoll

    Supporting Actor



  • 928 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 01 2000

Posted October 18 2006 - 05:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Rico
Thanks for the advice, I thought more people would come out in support of the 60's, strange that that's not the case.


Here's a vote for the 60s. The 20s + a good sub will beat the 60's by themselves, but a 60s plus the same sub will blow away the 20s/sub combo, IMO. That you have a medium/large room tilts the table even more to the 60s + sub combo.
Dan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin

#17 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 28 2006 - 01:45 PM

OK yesterday I pulled the trigger on the 20's - main reason was bang for buck, and the lack of convincing reasons to buy the 60's. Also, I discovered that, to my horror, I actually had the NAD 742, not the 752 as I'd thought. Doh! So I figured 50w per channel was not going to do the 60's any favours.
My impressions so far are that, so far as looks go, the 20's in light cherry on Premier S22 stands look pretty good, they don't seem 'lost' in the room like I thought they would.
As far as sound goes, its great, beautiful listening, but I think there is definitely a lack of 'oomph'. The sound doesn't have a lot of impact, which I put down to room size and having lots of soft furnishings. Its fine for movies, when I'm seated in the lounge is when the speakers really shine, but from the far side of the room the sound doesn't have much immediacy. I'm hoping that when the sub arrives next week this will help fill the room (plus enable me to set the mains to 'small' which I'm sure will help). Otherwise, the 20's will get moved to rears duty sooner than planned.

#18 of 37 OFFLINE   AlanZ

AlanZ

    Screenwriter



  • 1,335 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 15 2002

Posted October 28 2006 - 02:19 PM

How big is your room, Johnny?
"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
-Dustin Hoffman as 'Bernie Focker'

Updated Equipment List

#19 of 37 OFFLINE   John Garcia

John Garcia

    Executive Producer



  • 11,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 24 1999
  • Real Name:John
  • LocationNorCal

Posted October 28 2006 - 03:04 PM

Make sure you spend time tweaking the placement of the speakers relative to you, as that can play a HUGE role as well.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#20 of 37 OFFLINE   Jonny Rico

Jonny Rico

    Auditioning



  • 9 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 13 2006

Posted October 28 2006 - 05:51 PM

The room is 7 metres long, by 4 metres wide. Its a lounge/dining room, carpeted. I've got the 20's at one end, and while I'm their end of the room they sound good, but further away, at the dining end, they need to be turned up quite loud to have 'presence'.