Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Brothers and Sisters season 1 thread


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
132 replies to this topic

#21 of 133 OFFLINE   Jace_A

Jace_A

    Second Unit



  • 293 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 19 2005

Posted October 10 2006 - 05:22 PM

The show dramatically improved for me in the 3rd episode. Calista is hopelessly miscast (she should be playing Rachel Griffiths role and vice verse) but, notwithstanding this, there is some real depth to the characters. Sally Field, in particular, is a stand out (I really can't see Betty Buckley pulling that role off).

#22 of 133 OFFLINE   Ethan Riley

Ethan Riley

    Producer



  • 3,394 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 12 2005

Posted October 11 2006 - 08:25 PM

Contrast B&S with Desperate Housewives. Now there's another show with a zillion characters running around, and yet it still has focus. The focus is on just the four lead characters. Everyone else is shown in relation to those four housewives. Everything in the show revolves around those four housewives. I think the reason DH works is because the four housewives are such well-defined characters in their own right. We certainly know the difference between Gabi and Susan and we know that they aren't interchangeable, and we know that their dialogue is totally different. So with a clear definition of just those four characters, the entire show works.

Now with B&S you have clear characters:

The funny but intellectual sister
The serious sister
The gay brother
The fat brother
The druggie brother

Now the difference between B&S and DH is that in DH, we understood what the characters were like in the pilot...! The B&S characters aren't so well defined. I have no idea what makes any of them tick. I'm not sure I even want to know. I mean, what's up with Balthazar Getty's character? What do we know about him? Nothing. Who does he love? What does he want? I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Why is Rachel Griffith's character such a mope? Is she suffering from depression? Is she ill? Does her husband know? Do you know? Whatever; my point is that the character development in this show is very, very slow. Too slow for network tv, in which shows are cancelled before anyone even knew they were on. If you think about most successful shows, the characters were well-defined in the pilot, and each of them had the necessary hook that makes for good tv characters. The B&S characters are still too vague to generate much excitement and interest. They need to amp it up, and in a hurry. Because in this show, so far, there's only one word to describe each character. Instead of saying "The fat brother," a good tv character would be "the fat brother who thinks he's head of the family, and has a dark, terrible secret he doesn't want the rest of them to find out about." And Rachel should be "the serious sister who thinks she's dying and so must do everything she can to make her family happy in the little time she has left." Or whatever. The writers need to dig way deeper into these people and give them layers to play through. It's still very superficial. I'm sure it'll improve if it stays on the air long enough, but I've seen shows cancelled that were way better than B&S.
 

 


#23 of 133 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted October 12 2006 - 01:17 AM

Ethan, I tend to disagree with you a little bit on "knowing the characters".

Sarah (the serious sister) seems to carry the weight of the world on her shoulders in both her marriage (she did cheat on her husband, remember) and in the business (it's almost as if she has to keep checking on everyone because the only person who can do it right is her). I think she is the oldest sibling and with that comes a great deal of responsibility. She was expected to do a certain type of job, to be a success. That weighs heavy on her mind. I don't think she's a mope, per se, just always thinking and worried about the next step.

Tom (the fat brother) has a perpetual inferiority complex magnified by the fact Sarah was given the presidency of the company over him. Perhaps he was always the golden child who could do no wrong and now he finds out Daddy thought more of Sarah than him. That stings. It's never more evident then in the scene in which Sarah offers to give up the job to him if he wants it. He doesn't take it, leading me to believe he is a lot of bluster. He wants people to respect him, but won't take the personal responsibility to make it happen.

Justin (the druggie brother) is clearly grappling with being the youngest child, being the apple of everyone's eye and having served in the military. How do we know this? The argument between Nora and Kitty about Justin going to Afghanistan because of William (the father) and Kitty. Also, notice the line about Justin wishing he were dead. There's a lot of hurt, anger, depression and confusion inside him.

Kevin (the gay brother) is what I like to call a self-depricating gay. There is some lingering issue inside of him that deals with his homosexuality. We see that when he cuts Nora off when she says he should bring someone home. Further, he is less than courteous to Scotty. I understand Scotty is a client and that entire "relationship" should have been nipped in the bud. But I still believe someone gave him/is giving him a hard time about being gay and not living up to everyone's expectations, making him a straight acting gay.

You mention "the fat brother who has a terrible secret". Blah. That's a terrible cliche I don't care to see. Ditto on Sarah being the sister who tries to make everyone happy before she dies. Ditto on that one. I have zero issues with B/S in terms of pacing or character development. These people aren't stupid for the sake of being stupid (hello "Jericho") or are they TV people. These people have real issues as far as we've been able to discern.

#24 of 133 OFFLINE   David Williams

David Williams

    Screenwriter



  • 2,290 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2001

Posted October 12 2006 - 07:58 AM

Quote:
Sarah (the serious sister) seems to carry the weight of the world on her shoulders in both her marriage (she did cheat on her husband, remember)

She almost cheated according to the dialog in the pilot. She realized she was about to cross the line with her co-worker and I think that factored in her decision to leave that place and go to work for her father. She realizes that there is a huge problem in her marriage (Joe seems to make some kind of intermittant living giving guitar lessons while being a house hubby) and she seems committed to fixing her marriage. Her father's death/adultery has clearly affected her. I too, don't really think of her as a mope, just someone with a lot of problems.
"Only two things are infinite––the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ––Albert Einstein

#25 of 133 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted October 12 2006 - 08:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Williams
She almost cheated according to the dialog in the pilot. She realized she was about to cross the line with her co-worker and I think that factored in her decision to leave that place and go to work for her father. She realizes that there is a huge problem in her marriage (Joe seems to make some kind of intermittant living giving guitar lessons while being a house hubby) and she seems committed to fixing her marriage. Her father's death/adultery has clearly affected her. I too, don't really think of her as a mope, just someone with a lot of problems.

My mistake then. Either I wasn't paying attention close enough or I just mis-interpreted. Still, I don't think she's a mope in any way.

#26 of 133 OFFLINE   Chris Lockwood

Chris Lockwood

    Producer



  • 3,215 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 21 1999

Posted October 12 2006 - 09:56 AM

fat brother? I must be watching a different show.

#27 of 133 OFFLINE   Mikel_Cooperman

Mikel_Cooperman

    Producer



  • 4,184 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 16 2001

Posted October 13 2006 - 04:48 PM

I think that Brothers and Sisters improved quite a bit with the third episode as well. A good blend of Drama with nice touches of Comedy.
As far as the characters being more defined than Desperate Housewives, well, we are learning more about them as we go and I like that. The writing has improved considerably so I think some are being too quick to judge it.
Brothers and Sisters is still finding it's way where as Desperate Housewives has lost it's way.

#28 of 133 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted October 16 2006 - 01:22 AM

It struck me how...crass...Nora is last night. Not only did she "out" Holly last week in a group gathering but then she stubbornly sticks to her guns about the picture when the entire family is telling her to take it down. I understand she's had a lot of bad things happen to her recently...and that's all the more reason to listen to people you trust.

Otherwise, the only real problem I had was with Tyler, Justin's boss. She is just screaming love interest for him.

I'm now convinced: something happened to Kevin. Horrible break-up, low self-esteem...something. He was "meaning" to call Scotty? Granted, the family takes a lot of time, but there is always commuting to work or a quick second to call. He didn't want to try with Scotty. Why? Was he too "gay" for him? Was he embarassed to bring a guy around the house (the whole family knows he's gay and Scotty got along well with them last week)?

#29 of 133 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

Patrick Sun

    Studio Mogul



  • 37,895 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 30 1999

Posted October 16 2006 - 03:02 AM

I think the strength, so far, of the show is the "love and loathe" tug-of-war that is shown in the relating between different sibling pairs (the dynamics have a different feel for each pairing). This also occurs with parent and offsprings at times as well. Sure, the crisis aren't earthshattering, but as ongoing concerns, they feels more true to life, and are more relatable to people with large familes.

The Berlanti episodes do a much better job of showing the inter-relatability amongst the cast/family members than the initial Noxon episodes. I noticed this Noxon's previous effort with "Point Pleasant" where the characters don't relate as well in accessible fashion.
"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
Patcave | 2006 Films | 2007 Films | Flickr | Comic-Con 2012 | Dragon*Con 2012

#30 of 133 OFFLINE   Kong Chang

Kong Chang

    Screenwriter



  • 1,632 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 17 1998

Posted October 16 2006 - 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_V
I'm now convinced: something happened to Kevin. Horrible break-up, low self-esteem...something. He was "meaning" to call Scotty? Granted, the family takes a lot of time, but there is always commuting to work or a quick second to call. He didn't want to try with Scotty. Why? Was he too "gay" for him? Was he embarassed to bring a guy around the house (the whole family knows he's gay and Scotty got along well with them last week)?

Well, it was mentioned the reason he's single has to do with infidelity (something to do with having an affair...not sure whose fault that was) that split him and his previous boyfriend apart. This was explained in a sentence or two in ep. 2 when Scotty saw the pic of Kevin with his past boyfriend. Plus, he's using work as an excuse to not go out and date. This is a common excuse for those people who have been hurt in the past and would rather not think about going back into the dating scene and use work as a way to ditch having to have a relationship of some sort in case they get hurt like in the past.

As for not calling Scotty, I don't know why Kevin would be so embarassed to tell Scotty that he had "obligations" with his mom which takes precedence over his date with Scotty. I think Scotty would understand...probably. But, if you noticed, when Scotty's (boy)friend held Scotty's hand, and Kevin saw it, Scotty basically tried to untie his hand away from the other guy. This is a good sign that Scotty likes Kevin and doesn't want the handholding to be construed differently. I'll have to watch this scene a few times to read more into it.

Luke Macfarlane, who plays Scotty, does a wonderful job, btw. Favorite scene of his has got to be the family dinner.

As for the rest of the cast and this series, it's my favorite so far. Greg Berlanti brings back what I missed so much about Everwood and the family dynamic. It's great to see such wonderful characters and the casting is superb, as good as Six Degrees and Studio 60.
Format Neutral Advocater
Samsung BD-P1200
Toshiba HD-XA2

#31 of 133 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted October 16 2006 - 12:58 PM

^ Oy! Chalk another thing I missed due to trying to do three things at once. Completely missed the cheating part.

I think the thing that is bugging me about Kevin throughout the show is that it seems as though he's ashamed of being gay. When Nora says he can bring someone home, he stops her cold. If that's his coping mechanism for being hurt or doing the hurting in the past, so be it. But I just get the feeling there's more there than simply protecting himself.

Still love the show, though.

#32 of 133 OFFLINE   Elizabeth S

Elizabeth S

    Producer



  • 4,468 posts
  • Join Date: May 09 2001

Posted October 16 2006 - 01:33 PM

I'm loving this show, but missed last night's due to the earthquake-related power outage. (I was out of power for 16 hours.)

A quick recap would be greatly appreciated!

#33 of 133 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

Patrick Sun

    Studio Mogul



  • 37,895 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 30 1999

Posted October 16 2006 - 04:49 PM

Highlights:

Nora hangs up a family portrait that didn't include Kitty. This upsets Kitty, though Nora doesn't own up to Kitty's pain over the issue. Later, Nora takes it down after acknowledging her need to hang on to William, instead of reaching out to Kitty upon her return from NY.

Kitty offers to be a babysitter for Sarah's kids if Sarah and Joel needs some personal time. As luck would have it, Sarah asks for Kitty's babysitting services when Kitty lands an important interview with a congressman leaving his party and going independent. During the babysitting session, Warren stops by to help Kitty prep for the interview. Kitty sends Warren on his way when he makes gentle overtures, but Kitty wants to make it work with her NY (ex)boyfriend.

Kitty notices that Paige is drinking a lot of water and going to the bathroom a lot and sleeping a lot. Kitty tells Sarah, but Sarah gets defensive about the assertions that she isn't on top of what might be ailing Paige. Later Paige doesn't comes down for dinner and is sleeping, which was abnormal for her routine and they take her to the hospital where she is diagnosed as being diabetic. The whole family shows up at the hospital, Kitty has to miss the interview, and Warren takes over the interview (good thing he came over to help prep for the interview the night before). Kitty and Nora patch things up in the hospital chapel.

Justin gets a job as a bellhop from a tip from Thomas. His manager is a girl named Tyler who went to high school with him. Before you know it, Justin gets high on the job, and Tyler finds him, gets him sobered up and gives him a second chance because she knew the old Justin and thinks he's still in him. Justin shows up at the hospital, still strung out and Thomas is done with caring what Justin does with his life.

There's a golf tourney honoring William, and Nora is sort of looking for a playing partner. The sibling sort of push Kevin into being that playing partner, even though he had plans with Scotty, the guy that showed up last episode at his office (Sarah met him). After the round of golf, Nora is supposed to do a toast afterwards, but seeing William's visage on a poster at the country club makes Nora shakey and nervous, and she suggests to Kevin that they skip the toast and later go see "Two for the Road", a favorite of her and William's. Outside the movie theater, they run into Scotty and his date, and this pisses off Kevin (because he feels he should be the one on a date with Scotty), and makes him feel like he's not moving on with his life and also being the stereotypical gay son that is always doing stuff with his mom. Kevin hashes this out with Nora and parallels this with Nora's relationship with Saul and his over-protectiveness of her feelings. Kitty walks into this argument and then when Nora asks if she's insensitive, Kitty throws into Nora's face her decision to hang the portrait without Kitty and Kitty tells Nora that Nora drove her away to NY.

Later, after Paige is okay, Kitty tells Sarah how she is envious of Sarah's full life and would trade lives with her, and tells Sarah that she's here for her, and Sarah's grateful.

Nora goes to Saul and asks if he has feelings for Holly, and he denies the personal feelings somewhat. Nora gives him her blessing if he decided to pursue her, and Saul tells her that he didn't ask for her blessing and doesn't need it to proceed should he please, and Nora said that was fair enough.

Nora collects the family for another family portrait that includes Kitty in the park. All is well.
"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
Patcave | 2006 Films | 2007 Films | Flickr | Comic-Con 2012 | Dragon*Con 2012

#34 of 133 OFFLINE   Mikel_Cooperman

Mikel_Cooperman

    Producer



  • 4,184 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 16 2001

Posted October 16 2006 - 05:59 PM

I'm really likng the show. The Noxon-less episodes are a big improvement. Like the cast and the chemistry.
My favorite show along with Kidnapped and we know what happened to that.

#35 of 133 OFFLINE   David Williams

David Williams

    Screenwriter



  • 2,290 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2001

Posted October 16 2006 - 06:38 PM

Much rejoicing: late this afternoon (Oct. 16), ABC picked up the show for a full season. Woo-hoo!
"Only two things are infinite––the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ––Albert Einstein

#36 of 133 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted October 17 2006 - 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Williams
Much rejoicing: late this afternoon (Oct. 16), ABC picked up the show for a full season. Woo-hoo!

Excellent, excellent news. I read it was losing a good chunk of DH's leadin, but apparently ABC is very happy with it. At the very least we'll get a full season. Posted Image

#37 of 133 OFFLINE   Elizabeth S

Elizabeth S

    Producer



  • 4,468 posts
  • Join Date: May 09 2001

Posted October 17 2006 - 06:26 AM

Patrick -- thank you for that well-written summary! Posted Image

I'm thrilled this was picked up for the full season.

#38 of 133 OFFLINE   Kong Chang

Kong Chang

    Screenwriter



  • 1,632 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 17 1998

Posted October 17 2006 - 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason_V
^ Oy! Chalk another thing I missed due to trying to do three things at once. Completely missed the cheating part.

I think the thing that is bugging me about Kevin throughout the show is that it seems as though he's ashamed of being gay. When Nora says he can bring someone home, he stops her cold. If that's his coping mechanism for being hurt or doing the hurting in the past, so be it. But I just get the feeling there's more there than simply protecting himself.

Still love the show, though.

As of now, we don't know the specifics of his past relationship, we can only conjecture based on what Kevin stated and his reaction a few things as to why he is not having a relationship or giving excuses.

Interesting to note is in the 1st episode when Nora asks Kevin to stay with her, if Kitty stays at the home too...which shocks Kevin...and then she tells him she's just kidding. This is Nora's sneaky way of asking Kevin to be a **buffer** for her between her and Kitty. This was in episode 1.

In the recent episode, episode 4, she sneakily got him to attend golf with her in celebration of her late husband. Again, indirectly, she manipulates Kevin into helping her out.

In a way, I sense that Kevin feels this heavy weight of **filial piety** obligation to his mother. The guilt trip she lays on his shoulders, which is why he screamed at her because he didn't want this responsibility when he had other plans. I think this is funny considering this is a very asian ideology, and considering that Kevin is the first born **son** of the family (not first born of the siblings...but in terms of male), that Nora emphasized a lot of role responsibility onto Kevin's shoulders directly or indirectly.

Truly, I think she would love to have Kevin bring a boy home with him, but in a sense, I think Kevin is afraid of this situation...out of fear of his mother's approval or disapproval. In addition, the more it seems that Kevin is trying to not let his mother into his life...even if Nora already knows about Scotty, Kevin is treating their relationship more like a lawyer/client relationship in front of her.

I think what Kevin finds interesting about Scotty is that Scotty gets him. As Scotty puts it, in ep 2, Kevin is out but not proud, and he passes for a straight man; even though, Scotty did say he doesn't go for his type anymore, but there is a spark of interest between the two.

The thing I'm afraid of is this relationship going strong and the creators bring back Kevin's ex back into the fray to mix things up. I like Scotty and the actor and don't want to see him go. But we'll see. Greg Berlanti did state that he is giving Kevin a relationship this season.

I am also happy that ABC gave Brothers & Sisters a full season pick-up. After what CW did to Everwood, I was afraid that Brothers & Sisters might not get a full season pick up since Berlanti's dramas are always heavy on dialogue and character development.
Format Neutral Advocater
Samsung BD-P1200
Toshiba HD-XA2

#39 of 133 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

Patrick Sun

    Studio Mogul



  • 37,895 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 30 1999

Posted October 22 2006 - 03:16 PM

10/22/06

I did a double-take when Treat Williams showed up as the contractor, and takes Nora on a date (well, she sort of thought it was a date and went brain-dead for most of it with a lot of babbling).

I can't tell if Jonathan's evasiveness about what he had been doing (when he advised Kitty's sister to sell the orchards but keep the distribution portion of the company in an effort to raise enough money to stay out of jail by paying back $12 million into the pension fund after their dear ol' dad absconded with it before his death). Was Jonathan giving them good advice, or was it his last dig at Kitty's family since he sensed that Kitty was going to break up with him anyway, after the double date did not go well with Kitty's cohort and intern?

Good to see Kevin's romantic life get a spark going, even if it had a rocky start with Scotty.

At least Justin's experience with drugs makes him a great candidate to practice giving injections on. Haha.
"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
Patcave | 2006 Films | 2007 Films | Flickr | Comic-Con 2012 | Dragon*Con 2012

#40 of 133 OFFLINE   David Williams

David Williams

    Screenwriter



  • 2,290 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 06 2001

Posted October 22 2006 - 05:27 PM

Quote:
Was Jonathan giving them good advice, or was it his last dig at Kitty's family since he sensed that Kitty was going to break up with him anyway, after the double date did not go well with Kitty's cohort and intern?

I read it more that Jonathan knew where the 'winds' of his relationship with Kitty were headed and wanted the truth from her. He knew that if he told her he'd been helping out the family that it would unduly influence her honesty with herself. It would be another out for Kitty to keep from being alone, yet another lie she could tell herself... "See Jonathan is a great guy, he's helping out my family, I should keep him."

I don't think he was keeping the information from Kitty for any nefarious reasons.

Scotty is really growing on me and I was totally shocked when I found out that the actor that plays Kevin, Matthew Rhys, is Welsh. He does a flawless American accent, a la Rachel Griffiths.
"Only two things are infinite––the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ––Albert Einstein


Back to TV Programming



Forum Nav Content I Follow