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Aliens and Ghosts..


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#21 of 251 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted August 07 2006 - 09:30 PM

So, seriously, how many conspiracy theories have been proven true in the end? I don't mean a "well, I'm convinced", I'm talking real documentation proving the theory to the point where it's no longer a theory.

-paul

(on MSNBC yesterday they interviewed a guy who claimed the WTC/Pentagon disaster was all staged to start a war with Iraq. When the interviewer asked where the actual plane and the people who were on the flight that crashed into the pentagon was - since it was REALLY a missle! - the guy just skirted around the question and never really answered it. The interviewer insisted on an answer and eventually they ran out of time. But it was amusing.)

#22 of 251 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

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Posted August 08 2006 - 01:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D G
So, seriously, how many conspiracy theories have been proven true in the end? I don't mean a "well, I'm convinced", I'm talking real documentation proving the theory to the point where it's no longer a theory.

...
The US government’s attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro via the CIA would be one.
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#23 of 251 OFFLINE   Zen Butler

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Posted August 08 2006 - 04:08 AM

I've seen silver-discs, flying pyramids, civilizations in bottles of Budweiser, midget transformers, a tribe of Aborigenes that had those Dyna-a-Bees attached to flails for weapons, one real killer clown and I was chased by alien horse flies. I question whether any of it really happened. All good trips though and not one cover-up.

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#24 of 251 OFFLINE   Paul McElligott

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Posted August 08 2006 - 06:47 AM

I don't believe in ghosts, but I love ghost stories, by which I mean local folklore about hauntings.

The ghosts may not be real, but the stories usually contain enough real folk history to make them fascinating by themselves.
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#25 of 251 OFFLINE   Dome Vongvises

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Posted August 08 2006 - 07:13 AM

The closest I ever came to seeing a ghost was the greyish blue outline of what looked like my grandmother's ghost underneath a desk after her cremation.

I don't even know if I was dreaming or halfway asleep. One thing was for sure: I was scared shitless.

Otherwise, nothing supernatural to report on my end. Just hairs standing on the back of my neck is as close to ghostly as I've gotten.

#26 of 251 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted August 08 2006 - 08:33 AM

I'll throw my two cents in and simply say that humans don't know shit about the universe, we think we do with all our science and thoeries but ultimately, we don't know a thing about what may be out there.

Too often people stick too closely with what science says and they neglect the fact that science doesn't know every single solitary thing about anything, really.

When it comes to the universe, we humans are just a bunch of chimpanzees trying to figure out how to build a car. The way I look at it is, we're here aren't we? We're an intelligent race of beings who inhabit one planet, why the hell couldn't there be another race that inhabits another planet someplace else?

As for ghosts, i'm a firm believer, there is too much documentation and eye witness accounts to dismiss it as kooks and liars trying to gain publicity. There is a force that drives the human body, a battery of energy, it's the "driver behind the wheel" so to speak, it isn't very tough for me to believe that some of that energy remains after the mortal body has died.

We aren't robots, we're organic living things with a spirit and that spirit can, and does as far as i'm concerned, stay behind sometimes.
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#27 of 251 OFFLINE   Kevin T

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Posted August 08 2006 - 12:51 PM

pry that 3rd eye open, zen
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#28 of 251 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted August 08 2006 - 01:03 PM

This guy believes in ghosts. Posted Image

#29 of 251 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted August 08 2006 - 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
This guy believes in ghosts. Posted Image

Now that's decent 'ghost' video. All I ever hear are stories and still photos of orbs. Never any proper video.

IMHO, it's not 'common' enough to be believeable. Someone saying lights flicker in their home sometimes doesn't cut it for me. For example, I was watching Smallville and thought, geez, if I told my mom someone at school could contort their muscles to make them look like anyone they'd think I was nuts. But in that world strange things are so commonplace it's just accepted.

Anyway. My mom says the house we grew up in was haunted. She told me that the day we moved in there was a lot of noise in the attic like someone was walking around and after a few days it stopped. Occasionally thru the years she'd ask me if I was up there the night before and just smile knowingly when I said no. She said the night before they moved out it was really noisy up there again, like the ghost was upset we were leaving. She said she stood in her room and looked up at the ceiling and told the ghost how much we'd enjoyed living there and it was too big for us and we needed to move on. And it was quiet the rest of the night.

I never saw or heard anything like that, but there was an odd ticking sound in the corner of my room I never found a source for. Not like a clock's tick. But it would happen occasionally, only at night, and go on for hours before stopping. Dad said it was the house settling, but I could never pinpoint where in the wall it was coming from.

-paul

#30 of 251 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted August 09 2006 - 03:59 AM

What sort of energy remains behind when animals, insects, and plants die?

#31 of 251 ONLINE   Radioman970

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Posted August 09 2006 - 04:34 AM

I'm such a skeptic now. I miss when I believed in everything. Posted Image

UFO "visitors". Probably not.
Ghosts. Doubtful, but I've had some odd experiences.
Angels. Pure fantasy, but a nice thought.

However, life on other planets? A big yepper!

So many things are just too easily explained. I can still enjoy films about the subjects. Close Encounters, Blair Witch Project, The Entity. Those freak me out!

Some great comments in this thread. I agree totally that science is not everybody's strong point. If it were we'd worry less about the Space Shuttle program and more about exploring the solar system with unmanned crafts that are less dangerous and more educational for us. Not to say the Shuttle isn't a great thing, but there's so much more we could do. The Hubble has gone a long way in showing us stuff. If you don't believe then look up those "deep field" shots that show huge amounts of galaxies in small portions of the sky. Just amazing! All of those galaxies have millions of suns in them. Are we a alone? Look at these shots before you answer that question.

What energy remains behind? You know, it's interesting what dogs can sense. They predict when someone is about to have a epileptic (sic?) seizure. They can "smell" chemical changes in the body. Why couldn't they sense something rising from the recently dead. Who knows?
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#32 of 251 OFFLINE   BrianW

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Posted August 09 2006 - 04:46 AM

Quote:
We think we [know about the universe] with all our science and theories but ultimately, we don't know a thing avout what may be out there.
Quite true. Science has never answered any pertinent or burning questions about the nature of the Universe. All the real answers we've ever gotten have come from within. To know the true answers, you must search within your own heart. Therein lies everything that can be accurately known about the Universe, like chemistry, knowledge of flight, the laws of motion, or even how to build a global, wireless infrastructure that propagates annoying ring tones. Science has misled us for so long, and more often than not, it leads to theories and assertions about the Universe that just don't feel right, like quantum mechanics and relativity. What bunk! Look inside yourself. If a notion feels right, then believe it, because it must be true. Don't depend on some scientist to tell you what to believe. What does some scientist have to make him more equipped than you to determine the nature of the Universe? Nothing, that's what. You have a heart; you have a brain. What more is necessary? Intuition is more revealing than experimentation, philosophy more accurate than mathematics. All the world's scientists and engineers haven't produced one useful thing for all the time and money they've spent. Let them wallow in their abundant ignorance. I choose to take the true road to knowledge and understanding. Does a scientist know what makes the sun shine, or what makes the moon go through its phases? Of course not. Nobody does. How can they even claim to comprehend and quantify such deep and unknowable mysteries? With their little experiments, they think they have the power to test the Universe to determine its nature. Such arrogance! If only they could accept that Truth comes from within, and that deciding what to believe is as easy as consulting one's own internal life force, then they would be much better off.
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#33 of 251 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

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Posted August 09 2006 - 05:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector Hammer!
...

Too often people stick too closely with what science says and they neglect the fact that science doesn't know every single solitary thing about anything, really.
That is very different than knowing a whole lot about quite a bit—and progressing and correcting errors as additional data is collected and analyzed.
Quote:

...

As for ghosts, i'm a firm believer, there is too much documentation and eye witness accounts to dismiss it as kooks and liars trying to gain publicity. There is a force that drives the human body, a battery of energy, it's the "driver behind the wheel" so to speak, it isn't very tough for me to believe that some of that energy remains after the mortal body has died.

...
Well I’m not necessarily a disbeliever John, but that documentation to which you refer is never very convincing to me (you will note that I refrain from using personal, pejorative statements such as ‘kooks’ and ‘liars’.

I am sure that there are many people who have had convincing personal experiences—but that does not constitute proof, or even reasonable evidence.

I remain skeptical, but open to argument, including observations that are documented by third parties and is repeatable.
¡Time is not my master!

#34 of 251 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted August 09 2006 - 05:33 AM

I believe in the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence, somewhere out there someone is probably looking back at us!

Which is why we have encountered (UFO’s) we ourselves have been sending (UFO’s) if that what you what to call them, since the 1950’s but nothing as gone as far as Voyager 1 & 2, some 9 billion miles away and using analogue circuitry there still sending back data, which will takes several years to reach us, the more distant the longer the message will take to be received.

Pioneer, is also out there somewhere these are our ambassadors for the people of the planet Earth.

#35 of 251 OFFLINE   Bob Turnbull

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Posted August 09 2006 - 05:34 AM

Quote:
Too often people stick too closely with what science says and they neglect the fact that science doesn't know every single solitary thing about anything, really.
Science doesn't really say anything though John. Science is a methodology. Hypothesize, test, theorize, test again, make models and test their stability, get others to test and verify, repeat, etc. The more you can repeat something within an explainable theory, the closer it comes to being a representation of how something works. If it breaks at some point or a new test discovers a flaw, great! Update the theory to include that and now you have a new and improved view of the world.

I think a big issue in our society is that not enough people understand how science works. If a scientist can't quickly explain exactly why something happened, they are pushed aside for a better sounding answer that nicely wraps everything up and is comforting. As you mentioned, the Universe is pretty damn complicated and messy.

Quote:
As for ghosts, i'm a firm believer, there is too much documentation and eye witness accounts to dismiss it as kooks and liars trying to gain publicity.
Not to be too challenging here John, but if you could provide some of that documentation and proof, that would be useful...I don't think most of the accounts are necessarily kooks or liars either. It's simply people who have seen/heard/felt something they can't explain. That ghostly blur on your video camera...What was that!? Well, it might be a ghost or more likely a flaw in the camera where light seeped in or a flash of light from a mirror or...

Anecdotal evidence doesn't count as proof. I think we've all seen odd things out of the corner of our eyes, in the shadows or even just in those moments between sleep and waking up. But none of that points to any kind of ghostly occurences, spirits or "energy" that may be out there. As one of the variations of Occam's Razor goes: "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence". And there is none.

I don't have a problem with someone believing in the concept of ghosts. Just don't try to put it across as something that has been studied and given any kind of scientific creedence.

#36 of 251 OFFLINE   andySu

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Posted August 09 2006 - 06:51 AM

There is nothing in the dark except fear itself.

#37 of 251 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted August 09 2006 - 07:20 AM

Let me clearify my use of science in this thread, my main point is that too often people take the findings of science as gospal and they refuse to accept anything else, these are usually the hard skeptics that refuse to accept things that exist outside of scientific explanation, like ghosts and visitations by other life forms.

As for proof, I need provide no proof, there exists both on the internet and at your local library and book store countless books and articles about hauntings, possesions and even exorcisms.

In many of these cases there were multitudes of people that were on hand and witnessed and heard the same things, and in many haunting situations there are endless strangers who know nothing of a given locations history, describe in great detail what others have seen and felt before them.

There is simply too much information out there to dismiss these phenominon. There is a show on the Sci-fi channel (don't let that mislead your judgement) called Ghost Hunters, it's an organization of men who call themselves TAPS, which stands for The Atlantic Paranormal Society and they have made a career of investigating hauntings and they're main goal is to debunk hauntings, not prove them, and 85% of the time they do end up debunking a claim.

But than there's the other 15% and in those cases they find some pretty weird things, things that cannot be explained and some of it is rather startling. These are not men who are out to make a buck or to be famous, they are skeptics that have seen and heard many things that they can't explain and they have captured a lot of it on video and audio.

If one chooses to believe that they fake evidence then that's their right, but if you watch the show and read about these guys, I tend to believe them because they have absolutly no axe to grind. My choice of the words "kooks" and "liars" was simply to mirror how much of society views those who say they've had a paranormal experience, that's all.
"That's Jack Bauer!!!!!! He's coming for me!!!!!" - Charles Logan

#38 of 251 OFFLINE   Chu Gai

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Posted August 09 2006 - 07:44 AM

Here's a guy who attributes the paranormal activity in his place to his Krups coffee pot: http://coffeepotghos...Chronology.html

#39 of 251 OFFLINE   Kevin T

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Posted August 09 2006 - 07:48 AM

"As for proof, I need provide no proof"

actually, you do in this instance. you made a statement claiming that such documentation exists. you were asked to provide evidence of the documentation. the burden of proof is upon you to prove your own statement.

"These are not men who are out to make a buck or to be famous"

yet they have a television show. seems to me if they weren't in it for the fame or money, they wouldn't have a whole television crew following them around now would they?

kevin t
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#40 of 251 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted August 09 2006 - 08:09 AM

There's nothing that I could link you to that would change your opinion, so I won't. But your in the exact same position as I am, Kevin, you obviously don't believe based on what you've read or gathered over your years just as I have to the contrary, where's YOUR hard proof that ghosts don't exist?

It's a stalemate situation that neither side can prove.

Bottom line, I believe, some of you do not, no skin off my back.
"That's Jack Bauer!!!!!! He's coming for me!!!!!" - Charles Logan


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