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is burr brown DACs a must in a receiver?


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#1 of 21 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted August 04 2006 - 04:22 AM

I found that denon avr2807 doesnt have burr brown dac at all. Do you guys think that burr brown dacs a must in your receiver? Do they affect sound quality in anyway? how do they work, really? Why one DAC per channel? I am looking for a receiver for my monitor audio gold signature / gs10 and gs-lcr, and i will mate it with rotel rmb1075. Mackie suggested denon avr2807, but i found that it doesnt have the burr browns. I dont want to pay too much for a receiver which amp section i dont use, but i think i need the HDMI features in the future. Any suggestion? thanks

#2 of 21 OFFLINE   ryan.p

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Posted August 04 2006 - 08:29 AM

Burr Browns are not a must per se but do result in better sound quality. How much of a difference depends on who you ask. That is, some claim that Burr Brown dacs significantly enhance over-all sound quality and others claim to not notice much of a difference. Keep in mind too, that Burr Browns are usually offered in higher end products not mid-level with the exception of the Yamaha RX-V659 receiver. As far as I know, Yamaha in the ONLY manufacturer that offers Burr-Browns in a mid-level product. However, I am sure others will follow-it is just a matter of time.
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#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 04 2006 - 10:41 AM

Actually the Denon's do use Burr Browns (24-bit/192-kHz DACs – Burr-Brown PCM-1791 2/8ch). This information is on there web site. Denon makes a very good reciever IMHO. I have seen the Denon demo at CES in 03 and 04. They had there recievers hooked up to M&K's and it was impressive, this without using any external amplification. Pioneer Elite models use Motorola & Sharc dacs if I am not mistaken. Pioneer Elite is a very good sounding recievers. I was invited to a member house to hear his Elite reciever and I was impressed with what I heard. I still prefer the sound and the features of the Denon. Pioneer is making a great product though so even the lack of Burr Browns should not detour you from something that doesn not use Burr's. Like Ryan said usually higher end products use the Burr's so there is a reason why they are used in more exspensive equipment.

I would take your favorite disc's that you know really well and listen to a few models. Then pick what sound the best to your own ears. I still say go for the Denon Posted Image.

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#4 of 21 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 04 2006 - 11:44 AM

The simplest thing to do is GO LISTEN to some receivers. That will tell you FAR more than looking at what DACs they are using. There are HUNDREDS of Burr/Brown DACs available, both cheap and high end, so it would be nearly impossible to tell how something will sound based on the fact that a unit has their DACs in it. I'm partial to Crystal these days. Note that Rotel isn't using Burr/Brown in their current processors...
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#5 of 21 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted August 04 2006 - 11:10 PM

are you sure the avr2807 has the burr brown?

http://www.usa.denon...etails/3038.asp

it doesnt have that "V" sign on the line that says "24-bit/192-kHz DACs – Burr-Brown PCM-1791".

thanks for the replies.

#6 of 21 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted August 05 2006 - 02:45 AM

Felix I think you are correct. There is no check-mark for the Burr-Brown DAC. In fact, it says that the 2807 uses the Analog Devices AD-1835 DAC. You have to step up to the 3806 to get the Burr-Brown 1791 DAC. Who knows whether Denon will use the Burr-Brown in the forthcoming 3807 or not. Even if they do, the 3807 is sure to cost $200-$400 more than the 2807.

#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 05 2006 - 10:41 AM

I am waiting for the next generation models from Denon that will have DTS-HD, Dolby Digital + and Dolby True HD decoding built in. I wonder what dacs they will be using? Denon will be in the running for a reciever that will be replacing my Yamaha RX-V995. Posted Image

First is a Toshiba HD-DVD, Second a Sony Blu-ray HD then a really nice reciever.

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#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 05 2006 - 10:45 AM

Hey Felix if you check out the detailed specifications and go down to component technology. You will see where it says that even the 2807 uses Burr Dac's.

http://www.usa.denon...etails/3038.asp

Hope that helps Posted Image

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#9 of 21 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted August 06 2006 - 04:15 AM

Dave When you look at the detailed specs, there is a dash next to Burr Brown, not a check mark. Dash means no, check-mark means yes. The 2807 uses the Analog Devices AD-1835. This was exactly Felix' original question. Why no check-mark next to Burr Brown on the 2807? Answer, because it uses the AD-1835.

#10 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 06 2006 - 07:46 AM

Ooops my bad, thats what I get for speed reading Posted Image

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#11 of 21 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted August 07 2006 - 12:47 PM

what is a DAC, really? i want to know how it works, and why there is one DAC per channel in a receiver. thanks for the replies.

#12 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted August 07 2006 - 01:55 PM

If I remember correctly DAC's are Digital to Analog Convertor. And I believe that you can run one for each channel up to multiple DAC's per channel if I am remembering this correctly.

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#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted August 07 2006 - 03:27 PM

OK Felix

Check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.....alog_converter

If you understand all that, you can explain it to me Posted Image.

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted August 09 2006 - 08:17 PM

ohhh okay thanks for the links. i think i am gonna have to wait for receivers that can decode dolby true hd now ( after reading the thread that says they will show up sometime in 2007 )

#15 of 21 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted August 10 2006 - 05:24 AM

Curiously enough, I got a Crutchfield catalog in the mail and in it the copy says the 2807 has Burr-Brown DAC's. Someone else can bring this mistake to their attention.

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   koufax

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Posted July 24 2010 - 04:48 PM

Pioneer elite does use Burr brown dacs. Not all but most. I know mine does. In my car too. (Pioneer deck)

#17 of 21 OFFLINE   koufax

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Posted July 24 2010 - 04:50 PM

Yes it is a must.

#18 of 21 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 24 2010 - 05:31 PM

Wolfson DAC's are also first rate.
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 


#19 of 21 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted July 26 2010 - 07:05 AM

I agree that Wolfson DAC's are really good as well.  Also if your cd player or any other source has really good DAC's then you can allways just go analog to your receiver and the reciever not having Burr's may not be an issue.  Unless you are concerned about DAC's when listening to multi channel audio from movies?  I would recomend that you allways get the best possible reciever you can possible afford.  When looking at different receivers look at the different compermisses that a particualr brand makes and decide on if that is something you can live with.  Go in a do some critical listening with discs that you are very familure with, use those same discs for each receiver you consider.  I think this way works for anything you want to buy for your A/V system.  Burr brown is one of the best an most widely used DAC's, an alternative is definantly the Wolfson DAC's in the Pioneer Elites.  Listen to as many recievers as you can and get what fits your needs and what sounds good to you, your the one that has to live with the puchase.  Hope this helps and let us know what you end up with.

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#20 of 21 OFFLINE   gene c

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Posted July 26 2010 - 12:26 PM

Actually, there are many fine DACs. Besides Burr-Brown (Texas Instruments) and Wolfson there is Crystal (Cirrus Logic) dacs (used in many H/K and Marantz receivers) and even Analog Devices. And some others that I can't recall at the moment. And there there are good Burr-Brown dacs and better Burr-Brown dacs just as there are good Onkyo receivers (like the 605) and better Onkyo receivers (805). I also think the DSP (digital signal processor) is important but seldom is it talked about. That's the chip that processes the Dolby and DTS signal and seperates it. Even though speakers make a much bigger difference is sound quality, dacs, dsp's, etc in receivers and players can have an impact as well. When I went from a Pioneer 1014 to an Elite 59txi (a serious beast) the improvement in sound quality was was very noticable. It much more than just an upgrade in features. Nice to hear from you again, Dave  .
"Everyday room": Panasonic 58" Plasma, Dish HD DVR, Pioneer Elite vsx-23, BDP-23 BR, dv58avi universal dvd player, Paradigm Studio 20 V1, CC-450, Dayton HSU-10 subwoofer.

"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65" DLP, Dish HD receiver, Marantz 7005, CC-4003, BD-7006, Polk LSI25's-LSi7's-LSiC, 2 original Dayton 10" "Mighty-Mites" subwoofers. (subject to change without notice).
 
Also have  MB Quart Vera VS05 +.....too much to list. Help me.
 
 

 





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