Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Syndicated cuts, music substitutions..it's all good


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
92 replies to this topic

#1 of 93 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

Bryan^H

    Screenwriter



  • 2,743 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 08:25 AM

I'm sure I will get destroyed for this, but I have to say it. Syndicated cuts, and music replacement on tv dvd's are not a big deal to me...at all. I know there are many purists out there who would probably die before they buy anything that is cut, or altered in any way, but if it's an obstacle the studio can't get around, then I say it's time for a change.

Syndicated cuts. Most shows I watched growing up were already in syndication, so I wouldn't know the difference anyway. The shows I watched in the 80's like Alf, I have forgotten about completely, so agian it's not a big deal. Now Don't get me wrong, I would prefer watching the uncut version of a show, but if it comes down to an issue of the studio only having access to a specific print, and that is what they press, that is what I'd buy.

Music substitution. THE WONDER YEARS. We all know whats keeping this gem on the back burner, and it's not lack of interest. With the music being a huge obstacle, I would suggest in the scenes with the song in question, not to replace it with another song but find a good composer to score it. Who knows it may be even more powerful than the scene was to begin with.

I'm ready for the barrage of insults, so let me just say this: Once again, I don't prefer an altered version of any show, but if it means a show will either be released, or in limbo for years, I will be more than happy to support the syndicated, music substituted release.

housekeeping 2.jpg

"She always does that, she just wanders away"

 

 

 


#2 of 93 OFFLINE   Mark Talmadge

Mark Talmadge

    Screenwriter



  • 2,379 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 21 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 09:32 AM

That's generally the way I feel about it. However, for some reason, I refguse to buy a DVD movie that has been edited for DVD release and I've noticed this happening a lot lately.

#3 of 93 OFFLINE   TravisR

TravisR

    Studio Mogul



  • 22,335 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 15 2004
  • LocationThe basement of the FBI building

Posted July 24 2006 - 09:52 AM

No offense but couldn't this have gone into the other million threads with the same topic?

Like you said, music substitution is a must if you want to see some shows at all. Studios are businesses and want to make money. I can understand how they don't want to drop a ton of money into buying music. Just because I understand that doesn't mean that I like it and I'm sure there's a small group of people that will refuse to buy a title if 1 or 1,000 songs are changed and that's their call.

However, syndicated episodes on DVDs are almost all a result of errors or laziness. That's not a business decision, it's just sloppy. If syndicated episodes were the only surviving versions of an episode or if a massive restoration would have to take place, I could accept that faster than "Oops, we screwed up." Posted Image

#4 of 93 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

Bryan^H

    Screenwriter



  • 2,743 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 10:01 AM

This could have gone in another thread, but I don't think it would have fit considering the threads I found are against music substitution, and syndicated cuts. I wanted to make a point with this specific thread to counter all the bad mouthing of studios for releasing cut releases. This is how I feel about the subject, and wanted to get an idea if others felt the same. TV purists(is there such a thing?) are welcome also, as their opinions matter.

housekeeping 2.jpg

"She always does that, she just wanders away"

 

 

 


#5 of 93 OFFLINE   AnthonyC

AnthonyC

    Screenwriter



  • 2,341 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 29 2004

Posted July 24 2006 - 10:22 AM

I'm with Travis. Music substitution is an annoyance, but a lot of times it's unavoidable and I'd rather save money, even just a dollar or two, than pay extra to have one song in the background--with some exceptions of course.

Syndication cuts being released makes no sense to me...it's laziness/stupidity 99.99% of the time.

Quote:
Most shows I watched growing up were already in syndication, so I wouldn't know the difference anyway.

See, I'm in the same boat, but I don't get this logic at all. I've never been able to seen the classic episodes of The Cosby Show's first season in their entirety, and it pisses me off.

#6 of 93 OFFLINE   george kaplan

george kaplan

    Executive Producer



  • 13,064 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 14 2001

Posted July 24 2006 - 10:48 AM

Man I know exactly what you guys are saying. It's like this neighbor I have. He bought a book and they had left out a couple of chapters. Big f-ing deal. I told him to get over it. Then there was this guy at work who bought a cd, and 2 songs were missing, and he was all upset. What a pussy. And then, my wife hires this guy to tile our kitchen, and he leaves about 5% undone, and she's all mad. What the hell? She got most of what she paid for. What does she want? All of it? Get real, that ain't life. Sheesh, I'm getting sick of these crybabies!
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#7 of 93 OFFLINE   Steve Phillips

Steve Phillips

    Screenwriter



  • 1,526 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 18 2002

Posted July 24 2006 - 11:06 AM

I hear you, George.

My boss has been docking my paycheck by 15% or 20% each week; but like, it's no big deal; I mean, I'd rather get all that's coming to me, but what can I do?

#8 of 93 OFFLINE   Chris Wall

Chris Wall

    Agent



  • 27 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 30 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 11:13 AM

i'm kind of in the same mindset as well. My preference is for totally unedited episodes and feel that those are how they should be released. However, like with Alf if it's a show whose reruns haven't been seen for several years and probably won't in the future i'd consider biting the bullet. I'm not one who's going to raise cain over one or two episode missing 30 seconds or so although it is dissapointing and shows the studio didn't investigate thoroughly. How do those small edits happen anyway. I don't think it's from using a full blown syndicated print being used as if that were the case the episode would be even shorter.Also we pay to watch edited episodes on cable stations like Lifetime, USA, TV Land so really we already pay money to watch edited episodes.

My main problem is for sets like Alf season 1 where the back of the box listed an inflated running time. I wonder if it would be possible to seek action against it. I mean if they put all those disclaimers about their interviews and commentaries they should have those disclaimers on the box.

As for music, I'm not a huge stickler for that although in some show's cases it is slightly more imprtant for the scenes and mood. Like with happy Days I could live with a music replaced season 2 as I was born in 1979 and therefore wouldn't know what music was missing since I'm not old enough to have seen it back then.

#9 of 93 OFFLINE   David Rain

David Rain

    Screenwriter



  • 1,097 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 11:24 AM

I wouldn't call myself obsessive about changes but I still hate them and as a general rule fans have a right to be angry about them especially when there seems to be no explanation for some of them.

However, some consumers have no standards and will accept whatever garbage is handed them. The studios just LOVE people like that.
Still Turning the Beat Around at Our Cool New Pad

Retro Remixes

 


#10 of 93 OFFLINE   MatthewA

MatthewA

    Producer



  • 6,314 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 19 2000
  • Real Name:Matthew
  • LocationSalinas, CA

Posted July 24 2006 - 12:14 PM

The ALF DVDs, from what I can gather, are even shorter than what was shown in syndication.

And the fact that it is not shown in syndication does not hold water; neither are the following shows and they are on DVD uncut:

The Abbott and Costello Show
The Bob Newhart Show
Charles in Charge
Diff'rent Strokes
Dinosaurs
F-Troop
The Facts of Life
Fame
Family Affair
The Flying Nun
Gidget
Gimme a Break!
Good Morning World
Growing Pains
Hazel
Here Come the Brides
Hill Street Blues
Kate and Allie
Knots Landing
Lotsa Luck
The Mary Tyler Moore Show
Miami Vice
Mork and Mindy
The Partridge Family
Punky Brewster
Sledge Hammer
Soap
Tabitha
That Girl

and so many more. Not one of these shows is being shown anywhere, and they are presented in the uncut form on DVD.

Quote:
However, some consumers have no standards and will accept whatever garbage is handed them. The studios just LOVE people like that.

I guess this website's whole thing about artistic integrity and preservation doesn't apply to TV shows.

Enough is enough, Disney. No more evasions or excuses. We DEMAND the release Song of the South on Blu-ray along with the uncut version of Bedknobs and Broomsticks on Blu-ray. I am going to boycott The Walt Disney Company until then.


#11 of 93 OFFLINE   ScottR

ScottR

    Screenwriter



  • 2,650 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 01 2000

Posted July 24 2006 - 12:38 PM

Actually, at least one episode of The Facts of Life is cut...."Overachieving" from the first season.

#12 of 93 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

Bryan^H

    Screenwriter



  • 2,743 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 02:05 PM

I guess the title of this thread is throwing people off. I am not in favor of syndicated cuts, but if that is the only way a series will be released, then so be it, because if that's what a studio releases, chances are you won't see another release of that title for a long time, if at all. If your a fan of the show, and don't buy the set because of slight alteration, then what are you holding out for? Another release? Sorry, but that's not likely to happen.

I would not buy a book thats abridged, or music that is edited. Classic literature, and tv are very different, and if you don't agree on that, then there are issues. Music is usually edited because of content that giant retail stores don't feel comfortable selling, so they release a "nice" version. That isn't right, so I can't support that either.

I know those of you who are against syndicated cuts will never change your mind on this topic, but when your given the choice of syndication or nothing at all, you should realize that you might be missing some great tv on dvd.

housekeeping 2.jpg

"She always does that, she just wanders away"

 

 

 


#13 of 93 OFFLINE   Michael Alden

Michael Alden

    Supporting Actor



  • 825 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 05 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 03:02 PM

Well, for those of you who put all of your eggs in one basket and only started to collect TV shows recently, then I guess you are SOL. Cosby Show 1st Season? No problem, I just put them to bed last month from my VHS masters that I recorded off NBC. Alf? Same thing, I'll just transfer my masters. No, it won't look quite as good but it won't look quite as incomplete either. Wonder Years? I have the whole run in beautiful satellite feed masters. The only time this is an issue for me is with shows from the pre-home taping era. First season Too Close for Comfort is from 1980, a little too early for most of us to have been recording every series. I have a few but not the whole season, although if I look hard enough they may be around in trading circles. So, most of these issues are more of an annoyance than a big problem for me. Now, if I was like most folks on this board and I didn't think of collecting until the DVD era, then I would be pissed. But then I'd have no one to blame but myself.

#14 of 93 OFFLINE   george kaplan

george kaplan

    Executive Producer



  • 13,064 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 14 2001

Posted July 24 2006 - 03:05 PM

I would not buy a book thats abridged, or music that is edited.
But what if that abridged book or partial Beethoven symphony was all that was available? Do you say "well, that's the only way I can get Shakespeare, and I so love him, that I'll buy Highlights of Hamlet, cause that's all that's available, and it's better than nothing."? Or do you truly love Shakespeare and say, "uncut and complete or nothing!"?

Classic literature, and tv are very different, and if you don't agree on that, then there are issues.
Well then there are issues. Art is art, and there's no way you'd convince me that great tv is any less worthy of support than great literature, great film, great music or any other art form.

you should realize that you might be missing some great tv on dvd.
So are you. It's just that you're under an illusion that you're not. You're not watching the great tv show that was made, you're watching an edited abomination that is masquerading as the great show.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

"Subtitles good. Hollywood bad." - Tarzan, Sight & Sound 2012 voter.

"My films are not slices of life, they are pieces of cake." - Alfred Hitchcock"My great humility is just one of the many reasons that I...

#15 of 93 OFFLINE   Bryan^H

Bryan^H

    Screenwriter



  • 2,743 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 03 2005

Posted July 24 2006 - 03:39 PM

George,
I will use this as an example:
I have been watching Benson on Tvland recently, and enjoy it very much. Now, I know there are cuts in it, but I don't mind because I still find it very entertaining. I still get the comedy, the meat of the episode, and the end result, and oddly enough don't feel like I'm missing too much. There was an episode where Benson's mother passes away. When I watched that episode I didn't feel cheated because of the cuts. I felt greatful for seeing such a moving, awesome episode of Benson.

With books there is usually a choice to own the abridged or unabridged works of literature. Of course I'm going to buy the unabridged version. OF course I will buy the music that is uncensored, because it's available. Now when you don't have a choice(and probably never will) you have 2 options: accept it, or ignore it. Being a fan of TV, I will accept it, if that is all there is. I agree it does compromise the writers, and directors integrity, but this is what we are dealt, we might as well make the best of it.

housekeeping 2.jpg

"She always does that, she just wanders away"

 

 

 


#16 of 93 OFFLINE   Shawn_Sm

Shawn_Sm

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 160 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 12 2004

Posted July 24 2006 - 05:29 PM

I don't like syndication cuts, but as far as music goes, I couldn't care less. I don't watch television for the music and certainly don't watch it at the decibel level that most prefer.

#17 of 93 OFFLINE   ScottR

ScottR

    Screenwriter



  • 2,650 posts
  • Join Date: Apr 01 2000

Posted July 24 2006 - 05:52 PM

The difference between watching a syndicated print on television and watching one on dvd is that you have to pay to watch the dvd. My enjoyment is hindered knowing that I've paid for something that is incomplete. In the case of older shows such as Adventures of Superman, I can cut a little slack because of the history of the show and how old it is. But I don't like watching my favorite shows edited. I'd rather not watch them at all than to watch incomplete versions of something hundreds of people worked so hard to produce.
I don't like music replacements either, but if it is instrumental, as in the case of a few Munsters episodes, as long as the new music doesn't take me out of the moment I can live with it.

#18 of 93 OFFLINE   Jonny P

Jonny P

    Supporting Actor



  • 649 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 05 2002

Posted July 24 2006 - 06:11 PM

Wow...

Which would I rather own...

The edited/dubbed version of "First Blood" that aired in 1985 on NBC...

Or the original unedited/undubbed version that ran in theaters?

The choice is obvious.

Shows are cut for syndication in order to fit more commercials in so that stations can make more "money."

The reason being that syndicated airings don't demand the same ad prices as network airings, so you have to fit in more commercials.

So yes...I want the original version as it aired originally.

Music rights are a big issue. I'd like for a studio to leave music intact as much as is realistically possible.

For some shows, like "Miami Vice," music is an integral part of the story. There are other shows like "The Wonder Years" that are the same way.

Some shows have incidental songs playing on a radio or the like in the background. I can understand substitutions in those particular cases.

If I am going to pay roughly $2 per episode (as the price seems to run), I want them to be in original form.

We have film perservation societies and a national registry for various "significant" motion pictures that we want to protect. There are many significant television shows that should be protected in their original forms as well.

#19 of 93 OFFLINE   Christian Preischl

Christian Preischl

    Screenwriter



  • 1,376 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 11 2001

Posted July 24 2006 - 08:50 PM

All I can say is that I'm glad enough people found syndicated cuts so unacceptable that we've been getting many Carsey/Werner shows (like Roseanne and the Cosby Show) unaltered from season 2 onwards as a result. Music substitutions are one thing. I hate them, but in some cases I've learned to grudgingly live with them. But syndicated cuts are simply unacceptable and - as the case of the Carsey/Werner shows demonstrates - unnecessary.

#20 of 93 OFFLINE   Jason_V

Jason_V

    Producer



  • 4,843 posts
  • Join Date: May 07 2001
  • Real Name:Jason
  • LocationBothell, WA

Posted July 25 2006 - 01:43 AM

It is also a case of false advertising. "The Comple X Season" implies that all the episodes are, well, complete. Not hacked to bits or missing things. If syndication cuts are going to be used, then you can not call it "complete".





Forum Nav Content I Follow