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reciever vs. seperates


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51 replies to this topic

#1 of 52 OFFLINE   Nikko

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Posted July 20 2006 - 06:39 PM

Am am going to be purchasing a new HT soon, likely from definitive tech, 5.1 or 5.2 channel (might upgrade to 7 channel eventually), and all I have right now is a cheap sony 100w/c 5.1 reciever. The speakers are going to be there flagship bipolar towers with comprative matching center and surrounds, rated at 91 and 90dB/m/w. Now I know this will work to run the speakers, but it is sorta outdated (only has pro logic 1, and doesn't have neo 6 or the other newer multichannel convertors) and only 100w. So should I update to a newer reciever with all the good new stuff, or go with seperates? The speakers retail at about $7500, so I want a nice power source to compliment them. It also can't be too expensive, preferably not over $3000. Is it reasonable to get seperates for that price, or just a nice reciever? And I would like some suggestions on brand or specific models if you can please. Thanks

#2 of 52 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted July 21 2006 - 02:10 AM

Yes, that is about where you reach the point at which your receiver choices become slim and separates are within reach. Take a look at the offerings from www.outlawaudio.com and the Emotiva line at www.av123.com (they have a deal for $3300 for their top stuff)
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#3 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 21 2006 - 02:19 AM

Seperates would be the best way to go. There are some decently priced processors and HT amps around. On one of these threads there is a Anthem processor for $1500. It is very nice. Some seperates brands you might consider: Sherwood Newcastle, B&K Components, Outlaw audio, Sunfire, Earthquake Cinenova (the last two have very powerful amplifiers considering the price).

The same companies listed above have very good recievers as well (Earthquake I'm not sure about). You might also consider an upper-end Denon. I have seen Definitive paired up with Denon many times and has always sounded great to me.

Seth=L

#4 of 52 OFFLINE   Nikko

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Posted July 21 2006 - 01:52 PM

thanks, I'll look at the stuff

#5 of 52 OFFLINE   Nick:G

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Posted July 21 2006 - 06:02 PM

Another good processor/amp combo would be a Rotel RSP-1068 paired with a Rotel RMB-1075. Both of them together are $2,700 retail (you might be able to squeeze out a better deal than that though).

The RMB-1075 is 125W into 5 channels @ 8 ohms (all channels driven). A very clean amplifier for the money... I'm using its bigger brother (RMB-1095) right now driving my Dynaudio Audience system (with a REL Brittania B3 sub). Very happy.

#6 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 22 2006 - 02:34 AM

I didn't think of that. Rotel is very good. Definitly look into Rotel they are a great buy. If you make an investment in Rotel products you will not be dissapointed. Nikko I nearly forgot you still may want to take a look of this forum. It is a Anthem Preamp/processor it is very good as well.

http://www.hometheat....d.php?t=238626

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#7 of 52 OFFLINE   mackie

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Posted July 23 2006 - 04:01 AM

If you go the separates route, make sure it has the features you want. The entry level ones often lack things like HDMI switching which can be a big plus.

Outlaw probably has more to offer in the entry level separates department than anyone else.

#8 of 52 OFFLINE   Nikko

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Posted July 23 2006 - 12:27 PM

Okay, since I am fairly unfamiliar with amps/receivers when it says "Frequency response 20Hz-20kHz +/- 0.1 dB" does that mean at +/-.1 db it will only support a frequency responce between 20-20kHz? So like say I have crazy mians that get a response from 10-40kHz, from this amp anything outside the 20-20kHz range won't show up. I know we can only hear from 16-20kHz anyways, but I also know that above 20kHz helps speed up the speaker resonsivness. And does the low range not matter anyways since I will be running a sub?

I'm really confused with the Emotiva line. They have this
Quote:
Emotiva BPA-1Bridgeable Power AmplifierThe Emotiva BPA-1 is specifically designed for multi-channel home theater, stereo two-channel, zone two power and passive subwoofer applications.
75 Watts x 2 into 4 Ohms / 150 Watts x 1 into 8 Ohms.
Does this mean I can buy 7 of these and hook them up to a preamp and that's that?

Quote:
Emotiva MPS-1 Amplifier Top-shelf performance; the Emotiva MPS-1 Amplifier is here!
200/w/ch @ 8 ohms | 300/w/ch @ 4 ohms
looks good but then there are these
Quote:
Emotiva MPS-1 Mono Amplifier Module (EPM-300) Monoblock amplifier module for the Emotiva MPS-1 chassis.
Power output: 200w/ch @ 8 ohms and 300 w/ch @ 4 ohms • THD: <.03% (20-20KHz 80KHz bandwidth)
So do I need to buy these and put them in the amp for it to have power?

#9 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 23 2006 - 01:14 PM

Their site is so confusing. I had never heard of this company before untill now I would do some heavy research about their stuff to make sure it is safe.

The site leads me to believe that it comes with the seven modules and then you must install them. If the case alone costs that much then that doesn't sound very worth it to me. I would contact the company and find out from them because they don't come out and say on their website.

The other amp you mentioned doesn't look ideal for your a application. If in fact the MPS-1 does come with all seven channels then is the cheapest, most space conservative, most powerfull, and the best looking option.

Seth=L

#10 of 52 OFFLINE   mackie

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Posted July 23 2006 - 02:16 PM

AV123 Makes one of the more popular ID speakers and I've read a few things about their electronics. They have a pretty active forum and will be happy to answer questions.

A frequency response of +-0.1 db means that the frequency response from 20 hz to 20Khz won't change more than +-0.1 db. 1 db is usually considered the smallest change in volume a person can notice. That's a good spec as are the rest of them.

Some amps are modular so that you can install additional modules as needed. It's not a bad idea, but it's not very common.

A bridgeable amp basically means you combine two channels into one. The is a common feature and much more so in car audio. One thing to be careful of when bridging amps is the THD usually increases. Which may or may not be noticeble.

FWIW I own 2 outlaw amps and they work great. Check out Rotel and Parasound too.

#11 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 23 2006 - 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackie



bridgeable amp basically means you combine two channels into one. The is a common feature and much more so in car audio. One thing to be careful of when bridging amps is the THD usually increases. Which may or may not be noticeble.

yes I agree if you want an amp for only one channel per unit, buy monoblocks.

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#12 of 52 OFFLINE   Doug_

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Posted July 24 2006 - 12:09 AM

I have the MPS-1 and it is an excellent amp. I have owned Outlaw (still trying to sell a 755 actually), Boston Acoustics, Carver, Rotel and the Emotiva MPS-1 sounds better to me than all the others. Look at the channel separation (>120dB). I think this may be why it sounds so clean and good. AV123 has their own forum, so you may want to check that out if you are interested. I would go for the MPS-1 over 7 of the BPA-1 units any day. The price on the MPS-1 just took a $300 drop recently, making this amp quite the bargain.
Doug

#13 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 24 2006 - 02:15 AM

So does the MPS 1 come with all seven channels ready to install?

#14 of 52 OFFLINE   Nikko

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Posted July 24 2006 - 06:02 AM

Quote:
Look at the channel separation (>120dB).
can you explain channel separation to me?

#15 of 52 OFFLINE   Doug_

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Posted July 24 2006 - 03:09 PM

The MPS-1 comes with however many channels you order. I ordered all 7 and they sent 3 boxes (one for the chasis, one with 5 amp modules, and one with 2 amp modules). You don't really get the true appreciation for the design of this amp until it is in front of you, the pictures don't do it justice.

Channel separation in lamen's terms is the amount of one channel bleeding into an adjacent channel. A good multichannel amp is usually around 90dB. 120dB is stellar in this area and due to the fact the the 7 amp baldes are essentially 7 monoblocks stuck in the same chasis as each channel blade has its own transformer and the likes.
Doug

#16 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 24 2006 - 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug_
The MPS-1 comes with however many channels you order. I ordered all 7 and they sent 3 boxes (one for the chasis, one with 5 amp modules, and one with 2 amp modules).
I'm sorry let me rephrase the question. Does the price of the MPS 1 (1699.99 I believe) include the mono block modules or is there an additional cost on top of that. I occurs to me that $1699.99 for a chassis alone is unreasonable, because a DIYer would likely make his own chassis at this price.

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#17 of 52 OFFLINE   JeffJo

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Posted July 25 2006 - 01:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth=L
I'm sorry let me rephrase the question. Does the price of the MPS 1 (1699.99 I believe) include the mono block modules or is there an additional cost on top of that. I occurs to me that $1699.99 for a chassis alone is unreasonable, because a DIYer would likely make his own chassis at this price.

Seth=L
No, the 1699.99 price is for the Chassis & 7 modules.

#18 of 52 OFFLINE   Doug_

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Posted July 25 2006 - 05:17 AM

Seth=L,

Keep in mind, the individual power modules that slide into the chasis still get power from the chasis. Each module does have its own transformer though. I don't think one could really get away with calling it a true monoblock design, being that each module is fed power by the same chasis, but the power is transformed and rectified on each individual module.

The way I see it, you get the best of both worlds:

Awesome channel separation very close to monoblocks and convienced of all "monoblocks" being plugged into one single chasis with one power cord to connect to the wall.

At $1699, this thing is an excellent amp.
Doug

#19 of 52 OFFLINE   Dave_H

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Posted July 25 2006 - 05:25 AM

Most seperate processors are so behind in technology for the price it's barely worth it IMO. Sure you can get a nice used Rotel proc. for about $500, but what kinda of bass management capabilties does it have? No way it has HDMI inputs, output upconversion, or a room EQ. I would look into a mid/high receiver that had all the "goodies" and plenty of inputs, then pair it with a seperate amp of choice. I think this type of mix gives you the best "Bang for the buck".

#20 of 52 OFFLINE   Seth=L

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Posted July 25 2006 - 08:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_H
Most seperate processors are so behind in technology for the price it's barely worth it IMO. Sure you can get a nice used Rotel proc. for about $500, but what kinda of bass management capabilties does it have? No way it has HDMI inputs, output upconversion, or a room EQ. I would look into a mid/high receiver that had all the "goodies" and plenty of inputs, then pair it with a seperate amp of choice. I think this type of mix gives you the best "Bang for the buck".
The Emotivia DMC-1 offers external HDMI switching at no extra charge (this is on their website at www.av123.com). The combined price of the the Seven Channel amp MPS-1 offering 200 watts per channel rms and the processor with all the latest formats is only $3398.00. It will be tough to compete with that even with a receiver in that price range (Almost down right impossible).

Seth=L


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