Joe Kane Interview link posted at AVS Forum (1 Viewer)

This link, courtesy of Jason Forster and Robert D at AVS forum is an interview with video calibration expert, Joe Kane regarding the future of High Definition. In the interview he states, "Blue-Ray is all about greed." Ouch! He talks about codec use and is not-so-subtle about differences between the two formats. Give it a listen. Cinenow.com Joe Kane interview

Thanks Aaron--very interesting and a not at all subtle slap at Sony's use of MPEG2.

I'm moving this thread to the HD area for software because this short interview should generate some discussion from both HD player owners and those contemplating buying a player about Sony's role or motives in this format war.





Crawdaddy

That was an interesting interview, and while I am not saying there is no greed regarding Sony. I do not see how Toshiba can be seen as a non-greedy party? Toshiba as far as I know gets royaties from DVD and so they want to keep making money with there own format (HD-DVD). Toshiba raced to market to beat Sony and look what happened. That was motivated by nothing more than greed. So you can most likely say that both companies have been guilty of being greedy.

What we need to see is both formats using the same codex so we can directly compare HD-DVD to Blu-ray. And I do not agree that the public will choose quality first! This was proven during the VHS vs Beta format war, the public did not chose quality because the better format did not win. The public choose VHS because it was cheaper and there was a greater selection of titles. But I agree that any dispay that is properly calibrated will produce the best picture and display what a format is truly capable of.

Let's be honest, all of those companies are about revenue streams, first and foremost. That's not to say that some people working for those companies don't care about the product they release to the public, but certain levels of management are more concern with profits, otherwise, they'll be out of a job.





Crawdaddy

Sorry Dave, I couldn't disagree with you more. Unfortunately for the Blu-Ray camp, they ARE NOT using the same codecs and Sony made a business decision that DOES effect the quality of what you see on screen. You simply cannot argue with that truth. I have also heard this myth regarding the Beta vs. VHS war that Beta was superior. Let me tell you, I owned two video rental businesses while attending college. I guess I was a greedy entrepreneur. Our Beta tapes repeatedly had problems with the tape slipping beneath the plastic tab that supported the tape through transport. We used to have to click the hinged cover open and physically lift the tape back over the tab or instruct our customers to do it over the phone when the tapes wouldn't play. Don't tell me Beta was better. Frankly, it was a pain-in-the... well you get the idea. As far as Toshiba being greedy, a business is expected to make a profit and profit does not always equal greed. One can draw conclusions about an entity based on prior behavior and Sony has demonstrated a huge amount of gaul in the past. There has also been quite a bit of arm-twisting to get Blu-Ray greater support. It has been reported previously that Toshiba is literally subsidizing the sales of the phenomenal HD-A1. They are hoping that the losses can be offset by royalties. That's not greed that is just a gamble and maybe not even good business sense… but I hope they succeed. Don't forget that Toshiba is a manufacturer and does not control a vast entertainment library as does Sony. I am just uncomfortable with any company being able to wield so much power. How many times are we as consumers expected to invest in one of Sony's arrogant forays only to be abandoned in short order and left with obsolete equipment?

I am gonna do a transcript of what Joe Kane had to say because the playback is rather spotty at times. He does see a greater potential for HD-DVD and after all, he is an expert. Arm yourself with knowledge, the truth will set you free...and maybe even save you a few bucks too.

Dave, I think something needs to be clarified in regards to part of your characterization of Toshibas motivivation. HD DVD is not just Toshibas format- it is the offically sanctioned adjunct to the DVD name/format. Blu-ray, since it was not the first to market, pre recorded HD movie format, makes it effectively the party crasher. HD DVD, otoh, was officially invited to the party.

Now events could very well have played out much differently- HD DVD could have been sanctioned with red laser and 15 gb total disc space and the result could have been an 'official' next gen HD DVD image that was soft, filtered, with obvious artifacting and in general not a very compelling upgrade from the DVD standard- and one that would not have taken off regardless of not having any competiton in the marketplace.
Had that happened, then every videophile and movie lover in the world, i'm sure, would have welcomed Sony and Bd coming along a few months to a year or so later and showing everyone how to do it right. And in that situation, I could easily see Bd supplanting HD DVD in the hearts and minds of the interested consumers.

Here, their presence in the market place -as the product exists currently, isn't doing anything except playing spoiler to consumers and retailers, creating confusion and retarding adoption across the board* (which in turn means that studios aren't as compelled to release as much product).

in short-show up when you can actually bring something more to the table, because you don't deserve to be here otherwise.


BTW, I would love to read a transcript of that as I'm on a dial up now


*actually that may not be entirely true. I've read posts from many people who said they were actually spurred to get the Toshiba after reading the initial reviews of the Bd player.

That's the point of Joe Kane.
That Sony, because of "greed", did not do as you so rightly point out.


Dave,
Sorry to jump on the pile!!! ;-)
And your right, Tosh or any other company, is not perfect. :-0

But the DVD forum only approved Toshiba's AOD proposal as the HD DVD format after Toshiba refused to allow the Blu-Ray proposal to be brought up for debate, so I think you're being a little misleading…

are you sure about? I've heard several times that it was Sony that withdrew Bd from consideration. I have no link to support this- if you have one to support the contrary, I would very much like to see it and read the story behind this.

I read the interview with Amir and Joe Kane in the last Widescreen Review, but I honestly can't remember if this issue was discussed or even brought up there.

Good interview and yet another hit to the Sony gut.

Wow... nice informative interview. Every new bit of Blu-Ray news seems to make me not want to get a player somewhere in the future.

Talking about greed - what about the comment by Joe Kane that you really need outside help to get the most of your HD equipment? Is that comment altruistic or mercenary?

If only one third of current big-screen buyers paid for a professional setup, that's a lot of money ISF calibrators would be coming into.

So, people who live in glass houses...

How do you make that leap? Expressing a need for your expertise and service is not greed…it is business. He is probably right. Most people pull their displays out of the box and cross their fingers that it is properly calibrated. He was just stating the fact that in order to fully realize the benefit of high definition, professional calibration is needed. I don't think Mr. Kane suggested it be made a requirement with your purchase. Calling that greed is outrageous.

I thought that Kane’s ‘greed’ comment went to Sony’s claim of MPEG2 superiority vis-à-vis the newer codecs, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That companies are motivated by profit and may choose one piece of technology over another because of expense, is one thing and pretty much standard operating procedure. But to deny reality is another.

I thought it somewhat humorous that he promoted calibration by professionals.

Greetings

Joe Kane is not a part of the ISF ... while he may have been a founder ... he has not been involved with the ISF for almost 10 years now if not longer. Joe Kane is his own entity ... and all he cares about is proper image presentation. If you can't get there by yourself ... then you need a professional / or someone to help you ... or you don't get there.

Regards

I was not disagreeing with what Kane was saying in his interview. And I to am not happy with Sony's decision to use MPEG2. I agree that the use of MPEG2 was based on not wanting to spend the money on doing new updated transfers. And while I want to see Sony's Blu-ray be sucessful I am not someone that buys alot of Sony products.


I do believe that most people could use a professional to get the most out of there HD display. While some people may be able to tweek the settings on there HD display properly. The rest of the public does not know how to properly adjust there HD displays to get the most out of the format. If I spent alot of money on a high dollar system I would most likely have someone from Faroudja come in a calibrate my display. I totally agree with Kane's statement. That does not mean that there are not people out there that are not capable of doing it themselves.

I responded the way I did to this thread because while I am not disputing that Sony has done some greedy things in the past and will most likely do them again in the future. Toshiba is no saint ether and the have been guilty of greed as well. I do not confuse that with a company that is trying to make a profit and I never will. If Toshiba is eating alot of the cost of the HD-DVD player then it is because they really want there format to be sucsessful. And if I remember correctly Sony did the same thing with PS2 as they relied on software to make there money. All I was trying to say is Toshiba is no saint, but I also agree with what Kane was saying in his interview. How ever I believe that Sony this time has ever right to have the product on the market. Sony needs to be using VC-1 or MPEG4 with Blu-ray becuase if they choose to keep useing MPEG2 I believe they should pull Blu-ray off of the market and let HD-DVD win the format war!

Just because Toshiba has the word DVD in the format does not mean they have more rights the Sony's Blu-ray to be in the market place! And the DVD group should not be able to control the future of entertainment so if another format comes out developed by another company besides Toshiba or Sony. Then they to should be able to make there own way in the marketplace without DVD forum or Blu-ray forum.

And again yes I am for Blu-ray but because I am not going to spend $1k on a Samsung. And I am waiting on Sony and Pioneer models to come out and they keep pushing them back. I decided to buy the HD-DVD player as well and allready own 5 HD-DVD titles. In a few months I should have my HD-DVD player and be enjoying HD movies on my HT system. Then as long as Blu-ray titles start using new codex and the players don't get pushed back even more. Then I will be buying my Blu-ray player at the end of the year as well. If Sony does not get there act together and they end up having major problems I have no problem sticking with HD-DVD and would most likely upgrade to a higher end HD-DVD player if they became available at that time.

The DVD Forum is just a talking shop set up by agreement of the members to discuss matters relating to that format and to provide ease of standardisation. It's not an official body in the usual sense and doesn't carry legal censure beyond ownership of copyrights and patents, as evidence by the emergance of DVD-R against the "official" choice of DVD+R. CD, D-VHS, VCD, UMD, DV, BD, and the rest, are not covered by the DVD forum umbrella. Why anyone would think this makes any of these formats less official is beyond me.

As to the article, I find it somewhat confusing. Samsung is the CE which decided to launch their player before the other manufacturers, not Sony. While some of the software has come from Sony, and has been encoded using MPEG2 that appears to be mainly due to the authoring software for BD VC-1/AVC not yet being ready. Quite where the accusations of greed come into all this I'm not sure, other than Sony like all other companies prefers to make more rather than less money.

It is the claim by Sony that MPEG2 is actually superior to the other codecs that caused Joe Kane to question Sony’s motives regarding quality (and profit)).

So I wasn't crazy when I thought I heard that LOL. Geez Sony...