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*** Official SUPERMAN RETURNS Discussion Thread


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#1 of 1500 Adam Lenhardt

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Posted June 27 2006 - 03:12 AM

Ebert gave it two stars, saying it lacks charisma and joy. He also called it slow and plodding. It'll be interesting to see how much I agree with that assessment.
Unfortunately, I've got to leave early for NYC tomorrow morning, so I had to pass on the 10 pm screening. Hope to see it Thursday now, when I'm bright and fresh.

#2 of 1500 Steve Felix

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:58 AM

Kael's [negative] review of the original (for perspective Posted Image): http://www.newyorker....03fr_archive02

Reading the current reviews by Lane and Dargis, I wonder whether they have a capacity for idealism or willingness to look up to something. Yeah, perfect characters are boring. Except for Superman. He's the one that's allowed. I'm very cynical when it comes to Hollywood movies, but when Reeve winks at the camera at the end of S:TM, I'm inspired and spoken to. I admit it. Posted Image

Ebert's review does concern me. Of anyone, I expected him to get it. I hope he's wrong, and I'll finally get to find out tonight...
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#3 of 1500 Mike_G

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Posted June 27 2006 - 04:59 PM

Ok, it was awesome, and Ebert has no soul. The east coast reviews should be coming in now. I'd bet money that this get overall positive reviews.

#4 of 1500 Chuck Mayer

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:14 PM

I disagree with Ebert, but I found the movie a bit of a letdown. I started a review thread to share my thoughts. Reviews only, of course. I also think it'll get overall positive reviews...it aims high, means well, and is technically excellent. But I depart from the gushing. Some of it awesome, some of it was tiresome.

Lois Lane was the real sticking point for me. Just unlikeable. And I'm easy to please Posted Image
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#5 of 1500 Todd Terwilliger

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:22 PM

Everybody's got opinions. There's no law that we have to agree with them.

I do find it a bit stunning how people make it out like Ebert's is the only negative review. At RottenTomatoes, the meter is hanging in at 79% right now which indicates that at least a few critics besides Ebert weren't enamored with the picture (the "Cream of the Crop" reviews are at 73%). In fact, the user ratings are ticking in below the main critics average at 73%, right inline with the "Cream of the Crop".
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#6 of 1500 Greg_S_H

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:35 PM

Quote:
I disagree with Ebert, but I found the movie a bit of a letdown. I started a review thread to share my thoughts.

But the real question is, what did your wife think? She went in thinking it would be a turd, I believe you said.

#7 of 1500 Todd Terwilliger

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for the review. I hope to check it out over the weekend. I loved Hackman's Luthor but I hoped Spacey could bring some Swimming With Sharks energy to it. Looks like it was a better marriage on paper than on the screen. Oh, well.
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Hey kid you got no class. Hit the bums, kid. Run like the devil. Get a tin can and take up mooching. Knock on back doors for a nickel.
Tell them your story. Make 'em weep. You could have been a meat-eater, kid. But you didn't listen to me when I laid it down.
Stay off...

#8 of 1500 Patrick Sun

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:52 PM

I found Lois to be really guarded towards Superman, not bitchy. Some people react to people a certain way, but it's always grounded in some form of pull towards one another, even if 5 years have passed without a simple "I've gotta jet." note. At this point in her life, she's got her son to think about, and things are just more complicated with Richard and the munchkin there. Lois has always been a persistent type A personality, which is why she gets the stories, but I think becoming a mother has tone down some of those qualities at times, and is reflected in Bosworth's performance.

This is how I know the audience was sucked into this new world of Superman on film: there was this annoying kid that was snickering and reading aloud the text on the screen, but as the film gained momentum, the kid simply shut up and was totally drawn into the film. The rest of my audience was so well behaved, I was totally impressed because there were quite a few kids and teens in the audience at my showing, and they were running their mouths before the movie started, and I was groaning about getting a crappy audience from the onset, but then their attention turned to the film, and stayed there throughout the running time of the film, and we had about 1/4 of the people stay through the entire credits. Of course, YMMV.
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#9 of 1500 Travis_S

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:09 PM

Saw it in IMAX...
Oh. My. God.

I liked Bosworth a lot more than I expected. The audience applauded at the end.

#10 of 1500 Patrick Sun

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:13 PM

I think the the reunion scene between Lois and Superman works, at least it worked for me. If it were a stock on wall street, I'm buying!
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#11 of 1500 Dan Keefe

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:22 PM

I just got back from this movie...Best movie this year. It's a love story first and foremost. If that bothers you, then chances are you won't like it. I really thought this movie was sad. I thought this was every bit as good as the first Spiderman and certainly as good as Batman Begins.

This superman at times reminds me of Chris Reeve so much, I got chills. there are certain scenes where he sounds and looks like Christopher Reeve..

Bottom line,

Don't miss this movie...BTW the new spidey trailer was at my theater

#12 of 1500 Travis_S

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:23 PM

Favorite moments:

-The plane sequence, especially the ending at the baseball field.

-Superman flying with Lois

-The sequence when Superman flies up to the sunlight, lifts New Krypton out of the ocean and into outer space, then falls back to Metropolis.

-Superman quoting Marlon Brado's lines from the first movie to Jason.

I was surprised the cut out the fact that
Luthor is responsible for the reports that Krypton was found, to drive Superman off Earth.


#13 of 1500 Dave Mack

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:31 PM

Seeing this tom'w afternoon in IMAX 3-d.
mike G, your simple and eloquent enthusiastic review has me chuffed.
I don't even WANT to read Ebert's review as I truly thought tha man had lost his mind after Van Helsing!

#14 of 1500 Kirk Tsai

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:31 PM

The movie was funnier than I expected, which I welcomed.

I recall reading that Singer didn't know how to handle the Superman material until he thought of one great idea. I thought this idea would be the unraveling of why Superman had left Earth for a long period. Instead, it seems to be Superman having a child with Lois, which the vast majority of people figured out just by watching the trailer. It is wholly unsatisfying to see him say "I was there, but nothing else was." Perhaps Singer and his writers would make something more of this in a sequel.

If anywhere Lois was bitchy, I thought it was her reaction to Clark saying "relationship." Her general attitude towards Clark was pretty cold. It doesn't really give the feeling that they were good friends before. I like how Lois is seen to be a fairly serious reporter, but her going into the yacht with her son was pretty dumb, with her too late mention of "i think this is a bad idea."

The score itself is pretty good, but goes to another level when using the Williams material. What soundtrack.net had noted as the "personal" theme is not ineffective, but it feels like an incomplete melody. Williams always talks about laboring over a few simple notes, to make the audience feel that the melody is inevitable and whole. That is lacking in the new theme. Ottman's use of the Williams material is strongest on his take with the Smallville theme, but I thought the March was too fast, and the Planet Krypton material in the pre-credits was lackluster.

Feel bad about Martha Kent standing in the crowd with everyone else. Here's an old widow whose son left five years without any notice, comes back, but almost dies, and she cannot go and hug him.

I thought Routh was fine, and he doesn't weaken the movie, but not a stunning debut either.

There is one simple shot by Singer which I found rather joyful: when Superman pulls out the sunken half boat, Singer simply pulls away the camera, and it gives the impression of flight, but all they needed was a tall crane and some big fans.

#15 of 1500 Bryan Ri

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Posted June 27 2006 - 06:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Well, sure. I just say that because people are talking like this opinion is almost inconceivable, despite not having seen the film. The level of certainty people have on this count is really amazing to me.

Maybe I'm not being clear.

Ebert condems Superman Returns for elements which are present in similar movies (Batman Begins, Superman: The Movie).

I don't think anyone thinks it's inconcievable to dislike Superman Returns; this thread proves that there were more than a few skeptics, myself included.

I did see the 10PM showing tonight, and I'm still awestruck. It was not perfect, but I was very impressed. I may be one of Kate Bosworth's few supporters as well. Hats off to Brandon Routh and Bryan Singer as well.

#16 of 1500 Adam_ME

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Posted June 27 2006 - 07:05 PM

It was ok. I'll give it a generous 3 stars out of 4 because at least Singer and Co. had their heart in the right place. The problem is Singer was so enamored with Richard Donner's original Superman flick(and the parts of II that he directed) that he decided to essentially remake the movie, minus the first two acts in Krypton and Smallville.

Routh was perfect as Superman/Clark Kent and Kevin Spacey was pretty good as Lex Luthor(although I still prefer Hackman, especially playing off of Zod in II). Kate Bosworth was alright as Lois Lane, but she seemed pretty lifeless at times compared to Margot Kidder in the original.

Again, it all comes back to Singer recycling the original movie. When Chris Nolan relaunched the Batfranchise, he went in a whole new direction. Singer should've done the same. Keeping the Williams music, the whooshing title credits, and Marlon Brando as Jor-El was fine. Everything else should've been brand new.
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#17 of 1500 Michael Coate

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Posted June 27 2006 - 07:32 PM

Quote:
Anyone know of a place to see this in IMAX 3D in NYC?

IMAX Engagements
http://www.fromscrip....s_imax_dmr.htm

D-Cinema Engagements
http://www.fromscrip....s_d_cinema.htm

#18 of 1500 Steve Felix

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Posted June 27 2006 - 07:35 PM

For the time being, I'm somewhat let down. My first impression is that it could have used more plot to give the iconic stuff something to emerge from rather than being presented head on in large doses.

It's late though; and having had powerful preconceptions I could have missed a subtler thing than I was ready for. I'm seeing the IMAX version next week and I'm still looking foward to that.
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#19 of 1500 Michael Coate

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Posted June 27 2006 - 07:36 PM

Quote:
I'm checking out the IMAX version on Wednesday night, mainly to see how well the 3D holds up in the 20 minutes of 3D'd footage.

IMAX Engagements
http://www.fromscrip....s_imax_dmr.htm

D-Cinema Engagements
http://www.fromscrip....s_d_cinema.htm

#20 of 1500 BrettGallman

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Posted June 27 2006 - 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Sun

This is how I know the audience was sucked into this new world of Superman on film: there was this annoying kid that was snickering and reading aloud the text on the screen, but as the film gained momentum, the kid simply shut up and was totally drawn into the film.

I can back this up from my own personal experience. I swore up and down going in that if
the kid ended up being Superman's
, that I would riot. It happened, and I bought it completely because it was handled so well. This movie completely drew me in, and I bought everything. Sure, there were a few things that bugged me, but I can safely say this is the best movie I've seen since Revenge of the Sith. On that note, it's the first movie since ROTS that raised the hair on the back of my neck. I've waited my whole life pretty much to see this film, and Singer delivered, simple as that. Some have criticized Singer's embracing of the Donner film, but I applaud him for it. Maybe I'm just a sucker for sentimentality, but the minute that the Superman theme started up, I was hooked. The rest of the acknowledgements to the original were like touchtones along the way that enriched this film, but not in the sense that it was piggybacking off of the original, if that makes any sense. This movie is very well realized in its own right. I can't wait to see it again later this week on IMAX.
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