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The build quality of the Toshibas will never happen again...


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#1 of 18 Dave Mack

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Posted June 27 2006 - 01:16 PM

http://www.highdeffo...ead.php?t=25018

Interesting read. Look what you get for the $$$.

d

#2 of 18 Steve Schaffer

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Posted June 27 2006 - 02:11 PM

If you go down a few posts in that thread you'll find a link to a thread over at AVS. Go down a buncha posts in that thread and you'll find pix of the Samsung BluRay player with the "hood up".
Steve S.
I prefer not to push the subwoofers until they're properly run in.

#3 of 18 Paul_Scott

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Posted June 27 2006 - 03:04 PM

good find Dave-

Quote:
In order to handle the Blue Laser, Toshiba had to make a rock solid transport. They did. They also had to make a hefty chassis. Sure, they could have made it half the size, but the end signal (audio and video) would have suffered for it. It has nothing to do with "Early stages of product". If everybody screams for them to make it smaller, they will-but the quality will suffer. The technology is not new (except for the blue laser). They could have easily made it smaller. And then, they decided to use high end DAC's. Seven of them as a matter of fact. Not complacent to stop there, they decided to use a first quality DSP.But not just one.Four 32 bit DSP's, in fact. And then all the other computer parts they put in there-just icing on the cake

In order to find all these things in a CD player you will need to spend-minimum-$2500. And you move up to the XA1 (with a superb double chassis) you are looking at $3500 to $6,000, depending on brand. At this point, if you were shopping for one, it would be a matter of which sounds better to your ear.3 grand, 6 grand, it's all in the ear of the beholder. Or you could just spend $499 or $799.

This + the fact that the players were made in Japan + the fact that they were actively soliciting customer contact info for firmware updates + the fact that early reviews were consistently positive in regards to sound and video all convinced me to jump in FAR sooner than I had ever anticipated.
And I don't regret it a bit- even with the little quirks here and there.
This is clearly a substantial piece of HT gear, and a tremendous value at the price. No wonder they get bought up as soon as they get stocked.
In fact, I'm pretty confident this will be one of those rare finds that actually retains its value long after newer, better featured models have superceded it.

#4 of 18 Dave Mack

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Posted June 27 2006 - 05:15 PM

Steve, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

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#5 of 18 Sam Davatchi

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Posted June 28 2006 - 01:10 AM

deleted!

#6 of 18 Mark Zimmer

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Posted June 28 2006 - 02:41 AM

Despite the complaints some folks have had about the size of the HD-A1, no one has doubted its build quality, starting with the fact it's made at the flagship Toshiba factory in Japan. Like the 1st gen Sony DVD players, the thing is a tank, and an excellent value for the money.

#7 of 18 EricRWem

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Posted June 28 2006 - 02:54 AM

Quote:

In order to find all these things in a CD player you will need to spend-minimum-$2500. And you move up to the XA1 (with a superb double chassis) you are looking at $3500 to $6,000, depending on brand. At this point, if you were shopping for one, it would be a matter of which sounds better to your ear.3 grand, 6 grand, it's all in the ear of the beholder. Or you could just spend $499 or $799.


I won't accept statements like these until they are verified by an objective, credible, PROFESSIONAL resource.

#8 of 18 Austan

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Posted June 28 2006 - 03:37 AM

Quote:
In order to handle the Blue Laser, Toshiba had to make a rock solid transport. They did. They also had to make a hefty chassis...... One of the things that makes a CD player play well is the transport mechanism. Vibration is the #1 enemy of CD's (DVD's too). So when making these unit's that's the first thing they start with. Next is the chassis. Again, vibration issues.
Quote:
The HD-DVD drive we pulled out of the thing has a standard 40-pin IDE interface, and when connected to an XP machine identifies itself as “_NEC HDDVD HR1100A“, which is a recently-released HD-DVD reader that also reads normal DVDs and CDs.
Let me get this right, First off the HD-DVD optical drive is a standard computer drive tray. Secondly they had to fit it in a hefty computer chassis. Then the author implies that "heft" is the cure to vibrations.

I'm going to sell a steal plate for $1000, you bolt it to the bottom of your CD or DVD player and it will make it sound just like a $6000 player!!! Posted Image

Seriously though, when I was a kid I put those giant subwoofers in my car. I could only afford cheap amps, at first they were very light weight compared to the Name Brand amps, then one day they started to bolt steal plates to the bottom of those cheap amps. Yeah, they felt hefty, but the sound they produced was just as bad as before.

Bottom line is the that the bottle neck for vibration issues lay in the standard 40-pin IDE NEC HDDVD HR1100A drive. Weight is a by product of working with computer parts.

#9 of 18 RobertR

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Posted June 28 2006 - 04:39 AM

Interesting article, but portions of it sound a little too much like high end silliness to me. Does an “all out effort to control vibration” result in a clearer, more detailed picture? Better decoding? Improved shadow detail? A “deeper, wider soundstage”? and if Toshiba “HAD” to make a “rock solid transport” to make the format work, why wouldn’t subsequent players be just as solid?

#10 of 18 Paul_Scott

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Posted June 28 2006 - 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
Interesting article, but portions of it sound a little too much like high end silliness to me. Does an ?all out effort to control vibration? result in a clearer, more detailed picture? Better decoding? Improved shadow detail? A ?deeper, wider soundstage?? and if Toshiba ?HAD? to make a ?rock solid transport? to make the format work, why wouldn?t subsequent players be just as solid?

to be fair, that post is talking more about its qualifications as a CD transport.
But the impact of a more solid chassis for a video source could be along the lines of reducing things like judder/stuttering/dropped frames (just a guess). With these mediums where tolerances are significantly reduced, I would think(expect?) that errors would be more prone- especially if the device can be affected by subtle environmental vibrations (like the LFE from a sub).
I'm sure someone can debunk that, but it just seems to make horse sense to me.

Also often I hear expressions like "It's all just ones and zeros- either the information is being sent and recieved or else it isn't" but I can clearly hear the difference in the ones and zeros on the three players I've had in my HT in the last 5 years, and the Tosh is clearly at the head of the class in terms of audio across the board. if somone cracks it open and tells me the reason is in the quality and quantity of the components, I don't have a hard time believing it.

#11 of 18 Shawn Perron

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Posted June 28 2006 - 06:29 AM

Quote:
Also often I hear expressions like "It's all just ones and zeros- either the information is being sent and recieved or else it isn't" but I can clearly hear the difference in the ones and zeros on the three players I've had in my HT in the last 5 years, and the Tosh is clearly at the head of the class in terms of audio across the board.

Assuming you are using a digital connection from your player to your receiver and the receiver is doing all the DAC work and processing, then there should be no audible difference between players. If there is a difference then the players themselves are modifying or processing the bitstream before it leaves the player.

#12 of 18 JeremyErwin

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Posted June 28 2006 - 06:39 AM

There's more than one way to read a CD, and there's more than one way to output spdif.

#13 of 18 RobertR

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Posted June 28 2006 - 06:43 AM

Quote:
to be fair, that post is talking more about its qualifications as a CD transport. But the impact of a more solid chassis for a video source could be along the lines of reducing things like judder/stuttering/dropped frames (just a guess).
I have a real problem, though, with some “audiophile” concerns about the effects of vibration. Too often, people go off into subjectivist la la land, talking about “deeper, wider soundstage” or “greater instrumental focus” or “sweeter, airier highs” , etc. This subject has been discussed at length in subjectivist vs. objectivist threads, and “vibration” simply doesn’t have that kind of effect. In the case of a CD transport, either the data is being read properly off the disc or it isn’t. If it isn’t, and error correction can’t cope with it, the effect will NOT be” less instrumental focus” or “sounds not as clearly defined in space”, etc., but gross effects, such as sound actually missing. Similar comments apply to video—it’s not going to have “different shadow detail” or “a difference in the brilliance of the blues”, that sort of thing. Since we’re essentially talking about computer data, it should be simple enough to compare the data coming from a transport with special “vibration damping” and one without. There’s no mystical mumbo jumbo involved. An engineer would certainly not want the player to blank out sounds or drop frames, etc. due to missing data. Once that goal is achieved, it makes no sense to think that the design would take a step backwards in that regard.

Quote:
Also often I hear expressions like "It's all just ones and zeros- either the information is being sent and recieved or else it isn't" but I can clearly hear the difference in the ones and zeros on the three players I've had in my HT in the last 5 years, and the Tosh is clearly at the head of the class in terms of audio across the board.
I’d attribute such differences to the electronics that come after the transport, not because the player has some “special” immunity to vibration.

#14 of 18 Shawn Perron

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Posted June 28 2006 - 06:47 AM

Quote:
There's more than one way to read a CD, and there's more than one way to output spdif.

Not really. If the player is working the way it's supposed to, then the player should be outputting the raw 44.1/16 pcm bitstream encoded upon the disc. If it's doing anything else, then it's either an attempt to improve the sound by the player or some kind of manufacturing error.

#15 of 18 JeremyErwin

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Posted June 28 2006 - 07:40 AM

http://www.6moons.co...es/eac/eac.html

#16 of 18 Dave Mack

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Posted June 28 2006 - 07:53 AM

Everone suggests using the analog outs for these players. The DAC's would certanily come into play here.
"they decided to use high end DAC's. Seven of them as a matter of fact. Not complacent to stop there, they decided to use a first quality DSP.But not just one.Four 32 bit DSP's, in fact."

#17 of 18 Shawn Perron

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Posted June 28 2006 - 08:05 AM

Haha. You point to a propaganda page for a program for ripping cds to your harddrive. All that article really points out is that production errors at the cd plant are more likely to be a problem then anything else. If it's a production error, your players can never reproduce the sound correctly anyway. With a possible production error, the crappiest cd player may be the most like the original waveform.

Actually, reading that article, they actually use a software fix to "correct" the data after the data leaves the cd rom. So to fix errors, your cd player would have to analyze the data from the cd and correct on the fly. In this scenario, the quality of the laser pickup is pretty much neutalized.

#18 of 18 JeremyErwin

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Posted June 28 2006 - 10:13 AM

Oh, forget it. Let bits be bits, and just focus getting a player without mechanical noise.


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