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please help me decide - pre-pro or preamp?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 of 17 OFFLINE   julie_v

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Posted June 08 2006 - 06:55 PM

hi guys,

at a crossroad and need your help - this is my first post here, so please take it easy on me Posted Image

had a yamaha 2600 (recently sold it) that pre-outs into bryston amps (4b & 6b)

now have to decide between a bryston bp26DA (which doesnt have ht bypass), bp16DA (which does have ht bypass but obviously inferior to bp26 in every other way) or sp2.

if i go preamp option i would more than likely go with a japanese receiver solution for HT solution, perhaps even another 2600 - a very good receiver for video and upscaling, though only hdmi 1.1 compliant.

reason for not going sp2 automatically is that is doesn't have hdmi or the new HD audio formats (not that i can blame bryston as the formats are yet to be determined Posted Image) but also because HT technology changes in leaps and bounds and although the sp2 is upgradeable, it is an expensive option when you can simply update your japanese receiver with all the bells and whistles every few years for a fraction of the cost. also the sp2 uses the preamp from the bp25 rather than bp26.

now obviously the bp26 is the bees knees from bryston as far as 2ch listening goes but its only half my solution and getting a bp26 and the sp2 down the track when it has has hdmi and new audio formats makes no sense at all as by that time it will probably have bp26 2ch internals. on a plus, advancements in 2ch preamps are slow and far between them and if i get one, its unlikely that i would change it anytime soon.

forgive the rambling Posted Image

any advice / assistance appreciated

cheers,

julie

#2 of 17 OFFLINE   julie_v

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Posted June 11 2006 - 02:26 AM

bump!

45 views and not one response? Posted Image

come on all you byrston fans?

please??? Posted Image

julie

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 11 2006 - 06:54 AM

high end pre/pros are excellent these days, look to something like the anthem D2 or some of the other high end pre/pros.

Also, FYI "jap" is racially insulting/derrogatory.

#4 of 17 OFFLINE   Dave Moritz

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Posted June 11 2006 - 02:15 PM

The Denon AVR-2807 is a good option if you are not looking to spend alot of money and you can use it as a pre/pro.

Denon AVR-2807 Reciever $1099
assignable internal amps, 110 watts / channel X 7, assignable digital inputs, assignable component video, assignable 12 v trigger, 1080p HDMI switching, XM Radio Ready, Multi-source/multi-zone capabilities, Audyssey MultEQ Auto EQ Setup System

Anthem AVM-40 Pre/pro $3699

Pioneer Elite is another good option that you might want to look at after the Denon. You can use your Bryston power amps with the Denon and you should get great results.

The Bryston SP2 if I am not mistaken does not have component video, assignable digital inputs or hdmi switching. I have not doubt that it is a audiophile quality peice. But it may not have the options you want.

What is your budget? Are you looking for something that has the best bang for the buck or top notch audiophile model?

It would be more helpful in making a recomendation if we knew what your budget is and what features you want.


Posted Image
Supporter of 1080p & 4K video / Supporter of Lossless PCM, Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio / Say No To MP3 & WMA / Say no to Bose & LG!
 

 


#5 of 17 OFFLINE   Randy C Sr

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Posted June 11 2006 - 03:14 PM

I like the preamp/processor route. My reason with a receiver if something goes bad you now have no options as far as a work around.

#6 of 17 OFFLINE   julie_v

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Posted June 11 2006 - 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moritz
What is your budget? Are you looking for something that has the best bang for the buck or top notch audiophile model?

It would be more helpful in making a recomendation if we knew what your budget is and what features you want.

Hi Dave,

Budget can stretch to SP2 - no idea what they are worth where you are but here they cost about $10k aussie Posted Image

I dont know if the particular denon you suggested has anything over the yamaha 2600 that i have just replaced.

i guess im really after a top notch audiophile model with all the bells and whistles. i think atm the only model that does that is the anthem d2 and even then it doesn't have the soon to be release hdmi 1.3 std or the new hd audio formats.

i could go sp2 and do what is likely to be an expensive back to factory upgrade in 12-18months time or wait and see where the market goes Posted Image

julie

#7 of 17 OFFLINE   julie_v

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Posted June 11 2006 - 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
high end pre/pros are excellent these days, look to something like the anthem D2 or some of the other high end pre/pros.

Also, FYI "jap" is racially insulting/derrogatory.


Absolutely no offence intended Chris.

I hold Japanese people and Japanese products in the highest regard.

Its common slang / paraphrasing when talking about Japanese products in Australia.

Apologies for an any offence created.

Julie

#8 of 17 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 11 2006 - 06:51 PM

Quote:
it doesn't have the soon to be release hdmi 1.3 std or the new hd audio formats.

Not sure why that's a concern, you can get that without problem PCM over HDMI 1.1 which the Anthem does without problem. You don't need 1.3 for that.

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted June 11 2006 - 11:43 PM

Quote:
Not sure why that's a concern, you can get that without problem PCM over HDMI 1.1 which the Anthem does without problem. You don't need 1.3 for that.

Assuming that the player has full decoders for every format, and that the decoding algorithms are of sufficient quality. Those are big assumptions, seing as Sony's Bluray Disc Player does not incorporate either a DD+or DTSHD decoder., and that Toshiba's TrueHD is stereo only,

Now, maybe, by the time HDMI 1.3 comes out, every player will incorporate decoders for everything, but I doubt it.

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 12 2006 - 06:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
Assuming that the player has full decoders for every format, and that the decoding algorithms are of sufficient quality. Those are big assumptions, seing as Sony's Bluray Disc Player does not incorporate either a DD+or DTSHD decoder., and that Toshiba's TrueHD is stereo only,

Now, maybe, by the time HDMI 1.3 comes out, every player will incorporate decoders for everything, but I doubt it.

No, you are confusing two different things. The Toshiba has full capabilities for on-board uncompression to PCM for DD, DD+, DD True HD, DTS, and DTS HD. This is output in PCM to HDMI 1.1 or higher.

Those aren't big assumptions.

#11 of 17 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted June 12 2006 - 09:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
No, you are confusing two different things. The Toshiba has full capabilities for on-board uncompression to PCM for DD, DD+, DD True HD, DTS, and DTS HD. This is output in PCM to HDMI 1.1 or higher.

Those aren't big assumptions.

From Page 24 of the Toshiba HD-A1 manual
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toshiba
Note about audio capabilities:
Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD (DTS core only) capability limited to 5.1 chnnels
DTS-HD processing of DTS core only. Full DTS-HD is not supported
Dolby TrueHD processing for two channels only

The 1st generation Bluray Disk players would benefit even more from an HDM-1.3 pre/pro or receiver as they lack decoders for the DTS-HD, DD+ and TrueHD extensions.

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   Shiu

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Posted June 12 2006 - 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_v

but its only half my solution and getting a bp26 and the sp2 down the track when it has has hdmi and new audio formats makes no sense at all as by that time it will probably have bp26 2ch internals. on a plus, advancements in 2ch preamps are slow and far between them and if i get one, its unlikely that i would change it anytime soon.



Actually I thought your last sentence makes sense. It is better to have two separate systems, the RX-V2600 plus your 6B (SST?) should do well in H.T. The Yamaha can take care of the surround channels easily. That way you don't have to sink so much money into a prepro that gets outdated within two years.

The BP26/4B SST, and a pair of B&W 802D would be my dream system for music.

#13 of 17 OFFLINE   julie_v

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Posted June 12 2006 - 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiu
Actually I thought your last sentence makes sense. It is better to have two separate systems, the RX-V2600 plus your 6B (SST?) should do well in H.T. The Yamaha can take care of the surround channels easily. That way you don't have to sink so much money into a prepro that gets outdated within two years.

The BP26/4B SST, and a pair of B&W 802D would be my dream system for music.

i agree shiu,

btw - both 6b abd 4b are sst models Posted Image

biggest issue with bp26 is that unlike the bp16 (its cheaper sibling) , it does not have ht bypass and i dont want to be messing around with 2 sets of gains all the time.

also, important to note that 70% of our listening is ht

i think if the next version sp2 will be my dream unit. question is can i wait for it? Posted Image

julie

ps: as for 802D's - yummo! not likely though - too big and pricey for my small room Posted Image

#14 of 17 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 12 2006 - 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
From Page 24 of the Toshiba HD-A1 manual


The 1st generation Bluray Disk players would benefit even more from an HDM-1.3 pre/pro or receiver as they lack decoders for the DTS-HD, DD+ and TrueHD extensions.

No, that is not the case at all. Where are you getting these assertions?

The Toshiba has a full decoding complement for PCM output.

The only thing HDMI 1.3 adds in both cases is the ability to pass the un-decoded streams to an outboard decoder. HDMI 1.1 in all cases (AFAIK) allows full output of high-ress as PCM after decoding in the player. There is no meaningful difference between the two.

Blu-ray fully supports:
Quote:
Linear PCM (LPCM) - offers up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio.
Dolby Digital (DD) - format used for DVDs also known as AC3, offers 5.1-channel surround sound.
Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) - extension of DD, offers increased bitrates and 7.1-channel surround sound.
Dolby TrueHD - extension of MLP Lossless, offers lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio.
DTS Digital Surround - format used for DVDs, offers 5.1-channel surround sound.
DTS-HD - extension of DTS, offers increased bitrates and up to 8 channels of audio.

HDMI 1.1 provides full capability to a receiver or processor that allows full range of adjustment controls on PCM inputs.

#15 of 17 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 12 2006 - 05:22 PM

I should clarify that the toshiba players have limitations for DD True HD and DTS-HD AFAIK, so the "full complement" I stated above is misleading.

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted June 12 2006 - 06:34 PM

Quote:
I should clarify that the toshiba players have limitations for DD True HD and DTS-HD AFAIK, so the "full complement" I stated above is misleading.

Exactly. An HDMI 1.3 prepro might just remove these limitations.

HDMI 1.2, btw, added compatibility with SACD bitsteams.

the manual for the Toshiba.

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   Shiu

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Posted June 12 2006 - 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_v
biggest issue with bp26 is that unlike the bp16 (its cheaper sibling) , it does not have ht bypass and i dont want to be messing around with 2 sets of gains all the time.

also, important to note that 70% of our listening is ht

i think if the next version sp2 will be my dream unit. question is can i wait for it? Posted Image


If you must have your H.T./Music systems all in one room and one set of speakers then the SP2 is the way to go, assuming you are a Bryston fan. When you are ready you may want to pick one up in Canada if there is significant saving. The voltage and frequencies are different but that can be fixed easily. I don't know the price for the SP2 but to give you an idea, a 4B SST goes for about C$3K.


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