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Unfair!


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19 replies to this topic

#1 of 20 OFFLINE   Eric Huffstutler

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Posted June 07 2006 - 10:47 AM

OK... I am sure this subject has been driven into the ground but do wish someone would give me a short and sweet answer to my concern.

Why in hell do we face 2 (two) types of DVD player replacements... Blu-Ray and HD ?

I mean come on... when DVD was being developed, certain consortiums wanted to come up with different standards but at least they eventually all got together to put out ONE type of player in 1997. Why couldn't the same happen with Blu-Ray and HD?

Who on earth has $2,000 to spend on two different players just to be able to play movies coming out from different studios? Get real! What happens to someone who makes $300 per week salary and wants to continue buying new releases?

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#2 of 20 OFFLINE   Jason_V

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Posted June 07 2006 - 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Huffstutler
What happens to someone who makes $300 per week salary and wants to continue buying new releases?

Honestly, you do the same thing as those of us in a higher salary bracket...or those of who don't any interest in feeding either of these formats.

You wait. Wait until one wins out and the other goes the way of Divx. Then the prices come down. Until then, stick with standard DVD.

Trust me, you're not along in either your gripe or the sitting out.

#3 of 20 OFFLINE   Eric Huffstutler

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Posted June 07 2006 - 10:54 AM

But once certain titles make it to one format or another and "if" one does bites the dust... how long, if ever, will those previously released titles on the obsolete format take to make it to DVD? How long or how many Laser Disc and Divx titles are still missing from the DVD format 7-10 years later?

#4 of 20 OFFLINE   Robin_B

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Posted June 07 2006 - 11:05 AM

Once either one of the formats has won and begins to dominate, then the studios who bought into the losing format will jump ship. They have to, what else can they do, release DVD's on a format no one wants? Of course it's going to take time for most titles to make it to HD the same was true for SD DVD.
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#5 of 20 OFFLINE   Cees Alons

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Posted June 07 2006 - 11:12 AM

Quote:
Once either one of the formats has won and begins to dominate, then the studios who bought into the losing format will jump ship.
They will, I'm sure. They hardly have to do anything: just have the same HD files be authored to the other format.


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#6 of 20 OFFLINE   Beast

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Posted June 07 2006 - 11:21 AM

Welcome to the days of Beta and VHS. Posted Image
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#7 of 20 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted June 07 2006 - 11:26 AM

Actually, all we have to do is wait on a "combo" deck to be developed.

Samsung has already promised one as early as this November (although I'd be *shocked* if it really showed up then.) :
http://www.hdtvuk.tv...ng_plan_du.html

A "combo" deck would play DVD, Blu-ray, and HD-DVD. (Presumably, it would also provide standard DVD upscaling to 1080i).

IMO, "combo" decks will be the standard DVD player by November 2008 and will cost less than $200.

The hardware manufacturers and the studios *should* have standardized around one optical HD format. It's shameful that they didn't. But these Combo players will eventually take the sting out of the whole mess.
Joseph
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#8 of 20 OFFLINE   Seth.H

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Posted June 07 2006 - 12:11 PM

As long as studios such as Warners and Fox continue churning out the normal run-of-the-mill DVDs, I am quite happy to wait until I can afford a new player.

#9 of 20 OFFLINE   AndrewWickliffe

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Posted June 07 2006 - 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Huffstutler
How long or how many Laser Disc and Divx titles are still missing from the DVD format 7-10 years later?

I think everything released in Divx made it to DVD... since Divx was just DVD (except they were all pan and scan, weren't they?)

#10 of 20 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted June 07 2006 - 01:18 PM

Quote:
except they were all pan and scan, weren't they?

Nope.

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#11 of 20 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted June 07 2006 - 01:24 PM

I've already bought an HD-DVD player. That hasn't stopped me from buying or renting SD-DVD. Keep in mind that SD-DVD will be around for a very long time and just because the new HD formats look better SD still looks pretty decent.
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#12 of 20 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted June 07 2006 - 02:42 PM

I'm definitely in no rush to buy a high def player any time soon.

I'll gladly wait with everyone else.

#13 of 20 OFFLINE   Joel C

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Posted June 07 2006 - 04:43 PM

The only reason I was going to upgrade was Blu-Ray with PS3; now that I see it will be $600, I'll be waiting on that, too. I think Sony shot themselves in the foot. They should have been willing to take an even bigger hit on the system price to ensure Blu-Ray "wins" over HD-DVD. I don't think they'll have trouble selling the first batches of PS3s, but you won't have a lot of little kids getting them for Christmas until they are $400 or less.
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#14 of 20 OFFLINE   David Allum

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Posted June 08 2006 - 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Bolus
Actually, all we have to do is wait on a "combo" deck to be developed.

It could be a long wait:

A DVD combo? Don't hold your breath

#15 of 20 OFFLINE   Joseph Bolus

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Posted June 08 2006 - 01:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Allum
It could be a long wait:

I think I said that combo drives will be the norm by "November 2008".

And I *still* think that Samsung will be first to market with a "Combo" deck. In order to get around "licensing issues", the deck will have to have *two* drives: One for HD-DVD and one for Blu-ray. Both drives will play and upscale SD-DVD. There was nothing in the linked article that would prohibit that. So in one box we get a two-disc SD-DVD player along with support for both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. It will probably initially cost (in November 2007) around $750 - $1000, but it will be worth it since it will minimize the risk to the consumer.

I predict this thing will sell like "gangbusters"; and I think that *all* manufacturers (including Sony and Toshiba and "Yes"; even the "Cyberhome's of the world) will be making them by November 2008.

By that time both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray camps may totally cave and allow a universal drive to be manufactured.

In any event, this is really going to be interesting because both sides have enough peripheral support to ride this thing out for at least two years; and the average "Joe-on-the-street" is still happy to stay with DVD until some kind of unification occurs.

Until cooler heads prevail we're all in a classic "lose-lose" "Catch 22" situation!
Joseph
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#16 of 20 OFFLINE   Edwin-S

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Posted June 08 2006 - 02:22 AM

Quote:
Why in hell do we face 2 (two) types of DVD player replacements... Blu-Ray and HD ?

I mean come on... when DVD was being developed, certain consortiums wanted to come up with different standards but at least they eventually all got together to put out ONE type of player in 1997. Why couldn't the same happen with Blu-Ray and HD?

You have two different formats because of greed. The main players (Toshiba and Sony) could not come to an agreement on the disc structure for high definition discs. The structure of the discs translates into more money through royalties. Neither side was willing to give up the potential revenue stream from royalties on every disc sold. Toshiba, presently, receives royalties on every DVD sold and would continue to do so with HD DVD, because the disc structure is similar. Sony (and partners) wanted the potential revenues that would have been generated if their disc structure had been universally adopted.

The irony is that both sides could end up losing, because the format war could result in both formats languishing. The majority of consumers are going to wait and see which format sinks. The result could be that neither format really succeeds. In which case, both sides will make vastly less money off of disc royalties than they would have, had they come to an agreement in the first place.

The format war had its uses, but most of the good aspects of it have been expended. If it continues, the negative aspects are liable to become more and more pronounced. Everything preceding is, of course, IMO.
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#17 of 20 OFFLINE   MarkHastings

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Posted June 08 2006 - 03:12 AM

Agreed. Not that it's the exact same thing, but it's very similar to LD. LD was superior to VHS, but it didn't destroy VHS at all. LD's high price didn't help gain popularity with average consumers.

Just like HD, while it's superior to SD-DVD, unless it gets it's act together, SD-DVD will be around for quite a while. This HD war will keep the average consumer away (as well as some of the HT enthusiasts, which makes things even worse.)

I mean, it's going to be quite a while before one wins over the other, and even when THAT happens, we still have to wait for the average consumer to buy into it and it becomes 'standard'.

That's SO far away. SD-DVD is here to stay for quite a while now.

And even if the HD war implodes, it will just resurface again in the future. I know HD discs will be the standard in the future, it's just that it's going to take a while to get there because of the 'bickering'.

I have no qualms about waiting, especially since these new HDMI DVD players do such an awesome job of upconverting to 1080i. Posted Image

#18 of 20 OFFLINE   Austan

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Posted June 08 2006 - 04:54 AM

I dont think there will be a dual format... SD DVD will still go strong and people might buy both SD DVD for their portable players/laptops and a HD video format for thier HT enjoyment. Plus since we all agree that SD DVD will be here for a while, it wont be good bussiness sense for stuidos to make 3 different format of the same movie. You can have SD DVD and either one of the two HD medias but you wont have all 3. It would be in the best interest of studios to pick a format and go with it.

Good example is people buy CDs then pay $1/song to download for thier iPod. Yeah, they can rip thier CDs but for non-tech people, its easier to pay $1 or $2. They throw the CD in their car or keep it at home on the Stereo and they have a paid copy of the song on thier iPod.

I can see SD DVD and 1 HD media co-existing...
but I cant see 2 HD media existing...

#19 of 20 OFFLINE   Andrew Bunk

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Posted June 08 2006 - 06:20 AM

Personally I'm happy to wait and I've been buying just as many SD-DVD's as ever. My Oppo's upconversion is great, and I spending time actually enjoying films rather than waiting around to enjoy them.

Plus, studios like Fox are still doing fantastic DVD releases. Look at the recent Towering Inferno, Poseiden Adventure and Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid sets. Stellar transfers and great special features, all for catalog titles. As long as studios are committed to putting out quality SD material before there's a format winner in HD (if ever), I'll be quite happy with my current collection.
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#20 of 20 OFFLINE   RobertR

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Posted June 08 2006 - 11:38 AM

I posted this in the other area:

Saw this posted on AVS:


Quote:
Spoke to someone in the industry earlier today and was bemoaning the poor release for HD-DVD and the never-ending delays for BD-DVD. He told me the following:

1) The delay is being caused by the studios. While several have committed support, they have not "officially" committed titles (even though they may have announced them).

2) Many studios are now very worried about the viability of BD-DVD. This is due in large part to significant changes in what they were told about the PS3 (the BD-DVD "Trojan Horse"), the bath many took on PSP video titles, and their experience with SACD vs. DVD-A.

3) The studios are currently using this position to re-negotiate royalties and duplication costs with Sony as they now feel that they are in the stronger position.

While Sony could of course release what it has, it does not feel that this is enough to "blunt" HD-DVD and in fact could create a backlash effect with the studios. Many of them have been swayed by Microsoft's arguements and are very dissapointed over the two-format "war" as they feel that they could be significant loosers in the long run.

Sony has really bungled this badly. Let's hope that this can right itself, as it is quickly appearing as if HD-DVD and BD-DVD are about to go the way of SACD and DVD-A.



The irony is that I see thinly- veiled celebrating every time there’s any bad news for the format the poster doesn’t support. Why is there this “all or nothing” mentality? People should want GOOD news about BOTH formats. I’m REALLY annoyed that all the people involved can’t properly deliver HD disc content when there are no technical barriers to it!. Sigh (and please spare me any “see what trouble the ‘other’ side has caused” posts).


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