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70mm Dolby Stereo on DVD?


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#1 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 11 2006 - 02:21 PM

Recorded and released in Dolby Stereo, seeing a film in 70mm Six-Track Dolby Stereo, back in the good ole days, was a grand time to experience it with true discrete sound and fuller dynamic range over its 35mm optical counterpart was trilling to say, it was second to none and when accompanied via the Lucasfilm THX sound system, the impact was pinching, I mean to feel the sound in “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” 1989, 70mm Dolby Stereo THX, pinching my stomach towards the end of the film with the holy grail water being poured onto Indiana’s dad, as the “John Williams” slowly rises quietly I felt something from one of the four channels, from the front, pinching me!

So had anyone one else hear got an assorted collection of 70mm DVD’s presented in Six-Track Dolby Stereo, or Dolby 5.1 as Tom Holman calls it!


List of films presented in 70mm Six-Track Dolby Stereo

Star Wars
1977
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
1977
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Grease
1978
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Superman
1978
6 Track Dolby Stereo (SS)

Alien
1979
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Apocalypse Now
1979
6 Track Dolby Stereo (SS)

The Black Hole
1979
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Moonraker
1979
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Star Trek: The Motion Picture
1979
6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Blues Brothers
1980
6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Empire Strikes Back
1980
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Outland
1981
6 Track Dolby Stereo w/MegaSound

Raiders Of The Lost Ark
1981
6 Track Dolby Stereo

E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
1982
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Firefox
1982
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Star Trek: The Wrath Of Khan
1982
6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Thing
1982
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Tron
1982
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Blue Thunder
1983
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Return Of The Jedi
1983
6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Right Stuff
1983
6 Track Dolby Stereo

WarGames
1983
6 Track Dolby Stereo

2010
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Amadeus
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Ghostbusters
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Gremlins
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Starman
1984
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Back To The Future
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Cocoon
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Explorers
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Lifeforce
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Out Of Africa
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

A View To A Kill
1985
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Aliens
1986 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Big Trouble In Little China
1986 6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Fly
1986 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
1986 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Top Gun
1986 6 Track Dolby Stereo (SS)

Innerspace
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Lethal Weapon
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Platoon
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Predator
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo

RoboCop
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

The Witches Of Eastwick
1987 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Alien Nation
1988 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Die Hard
1988 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Willow
1988 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

The Abyss
1989
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Always
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Back To The Future Part II
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Batman
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Born On The Fourth Of July
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Casualties Of War
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Dead Poet's Society
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Glory
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

Lawrence of Arabia
1989
6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Lethal Weapon 2
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
1989 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Arachnophobia
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Back To The Future Part III
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Dances With Wolves
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Days Of Thunder
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS) & CDS

Dick Tracy
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo (SS) & CDS

Die Hard 2
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Edward Scissorhands
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo & CDS

Gremlins 2: The New Batch
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

The Hunt For Red October
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

Memphis Belle
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Predator 2
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Total Recall
1990 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Backdraft
1991
6 Track Dolby Stereo

Beauty And The Beast
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo

Hook
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

The Last Boy Scout
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo

The Rocketeer
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

Terminator 2: Judgment Day
1991 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS) & CDS

Alien 3
1992 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

Far and Away 1992 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

The Last Of The Mohicans
1992 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Lethal Weapon 3
1992 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Patriot Games
1992 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Cliffhanger
1993
6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

In The Line Of Fire
1993 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

Last Action Hero
1993 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

True Lies
1994 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR (SS)

My Fair Lady (re-issue)
1994 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

2001:A Space Odyssey (re-issue) 2001 6 Track Dolby Stereo SR

#2 of 31 Michael Rogers

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Posted May 11 2006 - 05:29 PM

In the old 6 track configuration wasn't 2 of the tracks devoted to LFE and the rest of the 4 Left, Right, Center and Surround all discreet?

#3 of 31 Michael Coate

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Posted May 11 2006 - 06:31 PM

andySu:

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#4 of 31 Damin J Toell

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Posted May 11 2006 - 10:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rogers
In the old 6 track configuration wasn't 2 of the tracks devoted to LFE and the rest of the 4 Left, Right, Center and Surround all discreet?

Dolby had three different 70mm 6-track configurations.

The original Dolby Stereo 6-track, introduced in 1976, had five screen channels (L, LC, C, RC, R) and a mono surround channel.

Dolby's so-called "Baby Boom" version, introduced in 1977, was the configuration you described: three screen channels (L, C, R), a mono surround channel, and two LFE channels.

In 1979 with Apocalypse Now (after a test run in 1978 on Superman), Dolby introduced the "Split Surround" configuration, which is the modern 5.1 format: three screen channels (L, C, R), two discrete stereo surround channels, and a single LFE channel.

DJ

#5 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 01:17 AM

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#6 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 01:33 AM

Damin

That’s true, and it’s a pity the consumer version doesn’t come close to some of those playback formats,

Dolby 41: 70mm Dolby Wide Wide range 6-track with A type Dolby NR

Dolby 42: 70mm Dolby Baby Boom 6-track A type Dolby NR, Baby Boom tracks 2 & 4

Dolby 43: 70mm Dolby Stereo Surround 6-track A type Dolby NR, Baby Boom split –surrounds

But with a slight bit of hand, and a few extra Dolby matrix decoders amplifier and extra front loudspeakers, it’s possible to create a simulated effect of left centre and right centre, it was tried out a few years ago, and appeared in “Widescreen magazine” called “finding extra channels” you may have come across it?

#7 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 01:39 AM

But since that time as past, I have developed a similar technique, where it employs more than a few extra decoders, which goes beyond, and places sound in the middle of the room, it’s very easy to adapt and its all in the stereo mix!?

#8 of 31 Robert Harris

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Posted May 12 2006 - 01:57 AM

The original "Dolby" 70mm format is the classic Todd-AO 70mm, in use since at least 1956-7, with the addtion of noise suppression technology. Todd-AO 70mm was also used in the same magnetic format with VistaVision prints.

For home video, it becomes a bit of overkill, as it was designed for venues larger than the current average home theater.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#9 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 02:19 AM

Robert

I have heard your commentary on "My Fair Lady" where you mentioned about the use of split-surrounds, and SDDS 8, where screen channels left centre and right centre is placed back behind the screen.

But is the mix on DVD, for "My Fair Lady" the same as the dts 70mm, and I take it no SDDS 8 prints where made for it, as a former projectionist, I have heard rumours flying around that SDDS 8, tends to ware and tear, and handling of the prints themselves, you get the picture!?

But I have heard an interview with Tom Holman, where he states more channels are needed, or it might be a case of the sound engineer crying out for more dynamic range and frequency response, I don’t know how you feel about that issue, but I would like to hear these films in the home cinema as they where intended upon theatrical release, I have also read the actor Bill Paxton doesn’t like Dolby six-track sound, he finds it distracting when there’s loud surround effects!

#10 of 31 Robert Harris

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Posted May 12 2006 - 02:33 AM

The original format of MFL was standard Todd-AO 70mm, which I've noted should not be a model for home theater.

For the restoration and 1994 70mm re-issue, we did 1:1 preservation on all of the original 4 track masters that had survived, as well as the 6 track print master used as the basis of the restoration, and for the re-issue made minor modifications, using the surround channels more as modern surrounds, and less as fx channels. During the Ascot sequence the horses now move around the rear via split surrounds, rather than appearing and then disappearing in the rear.

Two sets of final tracks were produced. One replicating the original, and one with the few "modernizations."

A similar thing was done with Spartacus, for which two totally different sets of 6 track mags were created. The first, replicating the original wide proscenium and directional dialogue, and a second with the dialogue more centered, as an adaptation for home video of the era (1989).

The fully directional tracks are now in use for home video.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#11 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 03:01 AM

Robert

The ascot scene does work very well, as I remember seeing it projected in 70mm Dolby, in home town, I was looking slightly over my shoulder to the right rear, while keeping one eye still fixed to the screen and it worked out very well as the horses where off screen and than rumbled past the screen channels, wow! Yeah, yeah I know the line that follows after it LOL, I’m not going say it.

But in the commentary you and your co worker James Katz, well seams like the both of you like the new digital formats that are available in the cinema field?

At this moment I placed My fair Lady on, and can pin point the dialogue panning over the three matching JBL control 5’s, as well as hearing sounds in-between as well.

#12 of 31 Robert Harris

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Posted May 12 2006 - 04:42 AM

All of the dx pans were as originally recorded.

This was a superb mix by Murray Spivack. If you check Mr. Spivack's credits you'll note that he worked as a sound designer on the original King Kong, moved on to be a music recordist and mixer (Laura), and went on to oversee and work in sound on productions like There's No Business Like Show Business, Around the World in 80 Days, South Pacific, Spartacus, The Alamo, Cleopatra, The Sound of Music, The Sand Pebbles, Hello, Dolly!, Patton and others.

When people speak of quality sound in motion pictures, Mr. Spivack's name will always be part of the conversation.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence


#13 of 31 JeremyErwin

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Posted May 12 2006 - 05:16 AM

dolby digital plus supports up to 13.1 channels at 6 Mb/s. Note, however, that neither HDDVD or Bluray currently support the "full version" of this codec.

#14 of 31 JeremyErwin

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Posted May 12 2006 - 05:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by andySu
I have also read the actor Bill Paxton doesn’t like Dolby six-track sound, he finds it distracting when there’s loud surround effects!

Six track is such a vague term. For all I know, you could be referring to the "5 screen channel + "voice of god" format.

Anyway, I found the Bill Paxton reference
Quote:
How do you prefer to watch movies?
I prefer to watch, period. If I had my druthers, I'd always watch with an audience on a big movie screen. But I just had a 42-inch flat-screen TV with a pretty good sound system installed in my bedroom, and I've got a pretty comfortable bed. I'm a technophobe, so that thing sat in a box for over a year, but it's wonderful. And I enjoy watching a movie in private where you can cry and not worry that you're in a public place. Both experiences are just as vital and both are wonderful. The sad thing is to see a film like Greatest Game — one that has scope — on a small screen. And then it's been squeezed again with the pan-and-scan and all that.

Do you have surround sound, too?
No surround — just a good stereo speaker system. To me, surround can be a little overkill. If you're watching a movie in a theater and suddenly you turn because something's going on behind you, it's distracting. It pulls your focus off the screen, and that's the last thing a filmmaker wants. I want to hear the sound coming from where I see the image coming from, so I still mix for the front.
source

#15 of 31 Random Hero

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Posted May 12 2006 - 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
dolby digital plus supports up to 13.1 channels at 6 Mb/s. Note, however, that neither HDDVD or Bluray currently support the "full version" of this codec.

13.1? Do you happen to have a diagram of the speaker placement for that?

#16 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 06:20 AM

LOL

“Murray Spivack” Now that you have brought that matter up Robert, I do happen to the original “King Kong” as well as, “South Pacific” “The Sound of Music” on DVD, I must say the techniques of the mixing on the later ones does sound fantastic, thou they have added low end now in the form of LFE.1, but I’m getting the sense that these new mixes have had the low end taken from the original soundtrack recordings and filtered the signals and then mixed and encoded them onto the DVD or earlier Laserdisc editions.

I was only watch South Pacific briefly a few nights ago, the opening with the flying plane, is a bit heavy, and so I have to lower the level of the LFE.1, slightly as too not kill, or overwhelm the playback of the soundtrack.

#17 of 31 JeremyErwin

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Posted May 12 2006 - 06:25 AM

I have no idea.
Technically, SACD and DVD-A aren't "5.1". They're 6 channel formats, and some labels have used the channels in unconventional ways. However, most individuals either cannot afford extra loudspeakers, or lack the creative drive to motorize their speaker mounts. A number of players also incorporate bass management, and mounting a full range speaker on the ceiling may scare some people...

#18 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 06:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
dolby digital plus supports up to 13.1 channels at 6 Mb/s. Note, however, that neither HDDVD or Bluray currently support the "full version" of this codec.

Jeremy

Well when it’s available hear in the UK, I’ll be looking out for it. Well I think they should be supporting it, wow, 13.1, looks like Tom Holman got some stiff competition! I’ll be keep a close eye on its progress, may the boys at Dolby can reconfigure the design of the generation of Dolby Digital decoders, with a formatting similar to the Dolby CP-200, yes five-screen mixes in the front row of selected home cinemas looks doable.

13.1 the way I see it, with five-screen, plus a true upper centre channel, and the LFE.1, for the back surrounds split them into two that is “stereo” for the sidewalls each will be stereo, and a true height channel, or “Sonic Whole Overhead Sound” split into two, “stereo” so you’ll have one half in the ceiling doing stereo, and sound should really move around in 3-D.

But if it’s given a lot of thought and brainstorming, what about true three-screen with 3-D, what I’m saying is if it can support up to 13.1 channels, then place three-screen channels in groups of “three” that is three on the bottom, three in the middle, and three across the top, that way sound can move in an up to down motion, like you would hear in real; life!

But that would give the mixers a right ole headache, I’ve got all figured out, I hope I haven’t cooked your noodle on this!?Posted Image

#19 of 31 andySu

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Posted May 12 2006 - 06:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyErwin
I have no idea.
Technically, SACD and DVD-A aren't "5.1". They're 6 channel formats, and some labels have used the channels in unconventional ways. However, most individuals either cannot afford extra loudspeakers, or lack the creative drive to motorize their speaker mounts. A number of players also incorporate bass management, and mounting a full range speaker on the ceiling may scare some people...

Jeremy

LOL

You have got to be kidding sacred, I’m sure quite a few around hear including myself, are still recovering from (((Sensurround))) syndrome from 1974!Posted Image it depends on how loud one sets the settings, so I don’t think that’s going to present a problem with what we have to day.

Oh speaking of DVD-Audio I have a copy of, “Holst the plants” “NAXOS cat no.5.11004” not the best sound one on the planet, I have dts demo, Vol.1 1999, and that sounds out of this world!

#20 of 31 Mark-P

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Posted May 12 2006 - 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
The original format of MFL was standard Todd-AO 70mm...

Robert, I think you're referring to it as Todd-AO because that was the name of the original 70MM format. My Fair Lady was "technically" shot in Super Panavision 70 (that's the on-screen credit). I'm sure there is absolutely no difference in the equipment used to film Todd-AO and Super Panavision 70. I guess it's just that Warner licensed Panavision for this film.


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