Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Don't bug me


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
39 replies to this topic

#1 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 08 2006 - 10:35 AM

http://www.videobusi.../CA6332337.html

#2 of 40 OFFLINE   Kyle McKnight

Kyle McKnight

    Screenwriter



  • 2,515 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 08 2001

Posted May 08 2006 - 02:11 PM

Could you please summarize the article? Thanks Posted Image
Kyle McKnight

#3 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 08 2006 - 02:38 PM

Its pointing out all the bug complaints on the HD-A1, and basically asking the question at the end....was it launched too soon, and is BD going to be launched to soon...before the players are de-bugged a bit....all in the name of saying ...me first.

Thats my take on it anyway.

#4 of 40 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

Lew Crippen

    Executive Producer



  • 12,060 posts
  • Join Date: May 19 2002

Posted May 09 2006 - 01:09 AM

Please—in the first sentence of the article, Paul Sweeting (the author) admits that he is not discussing the player from first-hand experience.

Further he makes statements such as, “Apart from the modest numbers overall, a portion of the initial shipment remains on permanent retail display, while another, perhaps substantial percentage were subjected to vivisection by Blu-ray engineers and likely won’t recover.” This is about as ignorant statement as possible from someone who supposedly knows something about the business.
¡Time is not my master!

#5 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 09 2006 - 12:59 PM

They would not send him a player...because every single one has flaws....and only a complete moron is oblivious to that fact.

I am about sick of the apologists claiming there players have no problems, when the rest of us that took theres back...know better.

I have read no less than six articles and one review all stating the same thing.....these players are not ready for prime time....functionality wise....and were rushed to market.

If someone wants to say there player is worth the many quirks/bugs...that both Toshiba players have...that is fine...but when I see people claiming theres is problem free....I say, will you have to actually plug it in and use it before coming to that conclusion.....or take off your blinders already.

If these were 500.00 and 800.00 sd david players, there would be an uproar of complaints from about every owner.

#6 of 40 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

Lew Crippen

    Executive Producer



  • 12,060 posts
  • Join Date: May 19 2002

Posted May 09 2006 - 03:48 PM

Greg since you have first hand experience you can at least write about what you know.

But I’d put no more credence in a hardware reviewer who had never actually had the player than I would a movie reviewer who had not seen the film.

We have obviously read very different comments on the Toshiba players. All of the informed comments I’ve seen have pointed out problems with load time and dissatisfaction with the remotes, just to name two items.

There is a very big difference between your statement that the apologists claim no problems and what is being reported.

I agree with your statement that “will you have to actually plug it in and use it before coming to that conclusions”. Indeed! Something the author of the article you cite neglected to do. Posted Image
¡Time is not my master!

#7 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 10 2006 - 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Crippen
Greg since you have first hand experience you can at least write about what you know.

But I’d put no more credence in a hardware reviewer who had never actually had the player than I would a movie reviewer who had not seen the film.

We have obviously read very different comments on the Toshiba players. All of the informed comments I’ve seen have pointed out problems with load time and dissatisfaction with the remotes, just to name two items.

There is a very big difference between your statement that the apologists claim no problems and what is being reported.

I agree with your statement that “will you have to actually plug it in and use it before coming to that conclusions”. Indeed! Something the author of the article you cite neglected to do. Posted Image

Problems on mine that I bought the Saturday before official release that I can remember.

Re-sync...as well as the hd dvd movie starting over every time that enter the menu, stop or change resolution was pushed on purpose...or by accident from the very hard to read remote.

Hdmi errors....as well as blue screen instead of movie playback.
Clipped blacks as well as whites via hdmi.
Popping sounds through my speakers when ever certain remote functions were pressed.
Player was extra sensitive to hum via analog line level connection.
My player never froze during playback...but did lock up on start up twice....as well as when I returned it to BB, and the manager had to open it to get my TLS movie out that I forgot in the player...and had to unplug the unit twice to get the transport to react.
I once had the HD-A1 ask me on screen when starting a rented sd dvd...if I wanted the HD or DVD selection via an on screen box...apparently thinking this was an hd dvd hybrid.
The fan/s is far louder than My Optoma H-78DCE or Dell PC.
The loading is ridiculous, and even advancing chapters took 2.5-3 seconds.
720p output is broken and useless to all.
The remote is very hard to read...even with some light...as well as very easy to push a wrong button in the dark because of the spacing...which can and did cause more of the re-syncing/starting the movie over syndrome.

Also Stacy Spears says the color decoders are flawed.

Yes the picture is very nice...if not as sharp as the better d-vhs titles....and the audio via analog was nice...although down several db because I bought the Movie before official launch day also.
The sd dvd playback was better than average...but not as good as the Onkyo sp 1000...which got me used to absolutely no bugs/flaws , and a perfect remote for the last 1.5 years.

After eleven days.... I decided to bring it back and wait for at least some of these issues to be worked out....before even thinking of buying another.
I could not help but wonder what was going to happen next.

So far...I have heard of no fixes.

The truth is...a lot of people admit flaws, and still keep the player using work arounds, and have not experienced freeze up...or lock up as of yet.
I believe its 100% because they rushed the player to market...without doing nearly enough beta testing...as well as the Intel chip that is discontinued, and was deemed too slow for PC use for good reason.

But anyone saying they have experienced none of this....needs to actually use the player....or fess up.

People fibbing about there player not having any problems will not only slow down any possible fixes, it will also give the green light for more...not quite ready for prime time players.

I don't hate the format....but I did not care for the player at all...as far as usability.

If they fix some of this...I am there to buy another, and if BD players are as bad, I will be one of the first to return those also.

#8 of 40 OFFLINE   Mark Zimmer

Mark Zimmer

    Producer



  • 4,269 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969

Posted May 10 2006 - 01:58 PM

Actually Stacey Spears says the color decoders are flawed if you're converting HDMI; HDMI to HDMI was fine, and he didn't test component yet.

#9 of 40 OFFLINE   Bob Black

Bob Black

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 239 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 16 1999

Posted May 10 2006 - 02:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg T
I am about sick of the apologists claiming there players have no problems, when the rest of us that took theres back...know better.


Hey buddy, I've had my A1 since August 15th as well. I now have 10 titles and have watched each and every one of them without ever seeing a glitch of any kind. I resent your implication that I, somehow, am an apologist because I don't have a defective player. I could care less if you returned your player - that's your perogative. Mine is fine, save for a less than perfect remote control. I guess I'm a liar, though, since you happen to know that every player is defective.

#10 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 10 2006 - 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black
Hey buddy, I've had my A1 since August 15th as well. I now have 10 titles and have watched each and every one of them without ever seeing a glitch of any kind. I resent your implication that I, somehow, am an apologist because I don't have a defective player. I could care less if you returned your player - that's your perogative. Mine is fine, save for a less than perfect remote control. I guess I'm a liar, though, since you happen to know that every player is defective.

So your 720p output is not broken?
Your miracle HD-A1 some how does not clip blacks/whites?
Yours is faster than the others at booting up, chapter advance ect?
Your early Warner titles were not down 15db because you had special titles made just for you?
Your remote is not the greatest....and thats it?

You do have a defective player imo, to one degree or the other....your evidently just ignoring this fact...because there all defective...and some are a lot worse than others.

Praise the format...but not the players, because a bunch of us would like to buy another just as soon as Toshiba gets around to fixing some of the issues.


I never said everyone experienced the same exact problems, and a few of the ones I had, were only mentioned by a few others.
But there are problems common to all players...and they are flaws/bugs. no matter how its sliced by anyone.

Now don't get me wrong here, I would have kept mine if it only had the basic flaws that are common to all players also....but I would not state it was a flawless or no problems player...simply because I was able to work around the flaws in my set up.

I welcome the HD playback...but these players should have had at least another month of q/c testing before being released.
Its not like theres another choice in players to run out and buy to enjoy hd dvd.

#11 of 40 OFFLINE   TedD

TedD

    Supporting Actor



  • 698 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 09 2001

Posted May 11 2006 - 01:23 AM

Quote:
So your 720p output is not broken?
Working as designed. The setting needs to match the resolution of the source, NOT the resolution of the display. (Per the owners manual Addendum)
Quote:
Your miracle HD-A1 some how does not clip blacks/whites?
The player passes the blackest black and the whitest white as specified in the NTSC VIDEO standards. In a properly calibrated system, black (16) is the lowest luma level and white (235) is the brightest luma level that should be displayed. In fact, if you pass an NTSC signal through a processor or NLE plugin that conforms the signal to NTSC standards, the processor will REMOVE any samples below 16 or above 235.

The below black pluge signal was originally designed to calibrate analog devices. I know some will maintain that it is improtant to preserve these signals, but I can't see why I would want to compromise the available dynamic range of a digital display by setting black to 0 and white to 255 when there should not be any valid data in these areas. Doing so merely makes the blacks and whites appear greyer than they should be and degrades the dynamic range of the displayed image. If a digital display is correctly calibrated so 16 is black and 235 is white it wont be able to display anything below 16 or above 235 anyhow.

Quote:
Yours is faster than the others at booting up, chapter advance ect?
No, but the boot time is comparable to a Linux based PC. It's not like I am turning this machine on and off between each disc. One of my projectors is a Sharp 12000, and it takes longer for it's lamp to come to full brightness than for the player to boot. I also normally play a disc completely, rather than jumping around. Slow chapter change is an inconvience on the rare occasions I use the function.

Quote:
Your early Warner titles were not down 15db because you had special titles made just for you?
Not a player issue.

Quote:
Your remote is not the greatest....and thats it?
No it's not. But, if I still used every device's remote, my HT would be littered with remotes. 5 minutes of learning, and my Pronto took over the responsibilities of the supplied remote.

In summary: No, it's not flawless, but neither was my first DVD player. I live in one of the cities that participated in the limited early rollout of DVD, and I do not find the Toshiba to be a bad effort for an early player. Mine is definitely NOT going back.

Ted

#12 of 40 OFFLINE   Bob Black

Bob Black

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 239 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 16 1999

Posted May 11 2006 - 01:42 AM

I've not heard anything about a problem with 720p output - I use 1080i through my Sony WEGA LCD (HDMI / DVI adaptor). I have experienced no lock-ups or freezing of any kind. Since my high-end sound system is in my dedicated HT (which consists of a Dwin CRT projector), I don't even notice any low volume levels on my Sony set-up. And besides, this is an issue with some of the Warner software and has nothing to do with the A1's performance. How many DVDs had issues with video or audio? Wrong aspect ratios(eg. Back To The Future), brightness issues (Resevoir Dogs), no LFE channels, reversed surround channels, ect. This is nothing new and is a software problem (one that is corrected simply by turning up the volume - the horror of it all).

The 45 seconds to open the tray doesn't bother me at all. I have had 7 DVD players since 1997 and the slowest to power-up is the most expensive and one of the most recently purchased - the Marantz DVD changer VC5200. Slower load times are typically associated with higher-end units. If a 45 second wait to load a DVD is that big a concern, then I think you're just searching for things to bitch about.

"Popping sounds" when you select from the menu - this is an option which can be changed in the DVD's menu. And who cares?? I have read so many complaints about this noise and it's ridiculous! This format allows users the ability to access the menu on the fly, without ever stopping the movie - an option that is head-and-shoulders better than standard DVD - but you don't like the optional "poppin" sound when you select from the menu!?! Give me a break.

As to this "clipping" of blacks & whites, I have no idea what you are speaking of. All I can tell you is this - I currently have HD in 3 rooms, including a dedicated HT room. I have had HD for over 5 years now, first through Dishnet and OTA and currently through Comcast digital cable, and the A1 gives a superior picture to ANY of these other options. There is an optional black level control in the A1's menu which I immediately set, and blacks are deep and perfect on my display. If you could see Swordfish or Training Day on HD-DVD, you would agree that PQ is second to none.

I'm sorry you had so many problems with your player, but don't continue to imply that others who are happy with it are in denial. Recent news has revealed that the lock-up problem that some have experience is due to a defective remote that sends numerous commands - an easily remedied problem. Ideally, the A1 would ouput 1080p and would accomodate the new lossless audio formats that the technology is capable of. But then this unit would probably be $1000. By the time 2nd generation players arrive with these options, there will be more 1080p-capable displays in homes and there will be processors that will play the new audio formats.

I am very happy with my purchase for $499 - how many people were satisfied with the $800+ spent on the JVC D-VHS format for a unit that was abysmal and had playback / head issues consistently? The issues with that format are well documented on the AVS forum. I'd rather be buying HD-DVDs now than continuing to waste money on standard DVDs.

#13 of 40 OFFLINE   Mark Zimmer

Mark Zimmer

    Producer



  • 4,269 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 31 1969

Posted May 11 2006 - 02:23 AM

I also use 1080i and it's gorgeous. I have a Toshiba 1080i native set, so I couldn't care less about whether the 720p output is screwed up. Why people have gone so gaga for reduced resolution sets is beyond me.

#14 of 40 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

ChristopherDAC

    Producer



  • 3,729 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 18 2004

Posted May 11 2006 - 03:07 AM

I'm surprised, Ted. I thought you were going to wait until you could get HD playback on your HTPC. Figured it was cheap enough to pick one up as a demo?

#15 of 40 OFFLINE   TedD

TedD

    Supporting Actor



  • 698 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 09 2001

Posted May 11 2006 - 06:40 AM

Yup, too good a price to pass up. Problem now is that I will probably need to get a scaler because it looks like the PC solutions are not going to provide scaling ala TT or ZP to handle a constant height setup.......

Waiting for the Crystalio to start shipping in quantity because it also has HD-SDI inputs.

Major upgrade in image quality. Phantom looks really good, as does Serenity.

Ted

#16 of 40 OFFLINE   ChristopherDAC

ChristopherDAC

    Producer



  • 3,729 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 18 2004

Posted May 11 2006 - 06:49 AM

That's a little dumb of them. I mean, the HTPC market [as opposed to people who just want to play DVDs on their computers] isn't very large even yet ; but it, and the front-projector market, and the constant-height market, have the highest possible degree of overlap with the High Definition software market. Posted Image Oh well, we haven't even seen the launch of the computer drives yet. Maybe there'll be some action there — not that you won't have to buy a bleeding Vista PC to get any good out of it, anyway.

By the way, did you ever get your AC-3 RF input working?


We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

#17 of 40 OFFLINE   TedD

TedD

    Supporting Actor



  • 698 posts
  • Join Date: Jan 09 2001

Posted May 11 2006 - 07:42 AM

Quote:
By the way, did you ever get your AC-3 RF input working?
Haven't revisited it since you were here. I just don't do LD often any more.

Ted

#18 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 17 2006 - 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
I also use 1080i and it's gorgeous. I have a Toshiba 1080i native set, so I couldn't care less about whether the 720p output is screwed up. Why people have gone so gaga for reduced resolution sets is beyond me.

Everyone uses 1080i no matter there displays native rate...thats the point...they may as well have not had 720p.

And my 110"screen is not merely a set...but a true home theater display that also accepts a 1080p signal via digital.

#19 of 40 OFFLINE   Greg T

Greg T

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 125 posts
  • Join Date: Aug 03 2003

Posted May 17 2006 - 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Black
I've not heard anything about a problem with 720p output - I use 1080i through my Sony WEGA LCD (HDMI / DVI adaptor). I have experienced no lock-ups or freezing of any kind. Since my high-end sound system is in my dedicated HT (which consists of a Dwin CRT projector), I don't even notice any low volume levels on my Sony set-up. And besides, this is an issue with some of the Warner software and has nothing to do with the A1's performance. How many DVDs had issues with video or audio? Wrong aspect ratios(eg. Back To The Future), brightness issues (Resevoir Dogs), no LFE channels, reversed surround channels, ect. This is nothing new and is a software problem (one that is corrected simply by turning up the volume - the horror of it all).

The 45 seconds to open the tray doesn't bother me at all. I have had 7 DVD players since 1997 and the slowest to power-up is the most expensive and one of the most recently purchased - the Marantz DVD changer VC5200. Slower load times are typically associated with higher-end units. If a 45 second wait to load a DVD is that big a concern, then I think you're just searching for things to bitch about.

"Popping sounds" when you select from the menu - this is an option which can be changed in the DVD's menu. And who cares?? I have read so many complaints about this noise and it's ridiculous! This format allows users the ability to access the menu on the fly, without ever stopping the movie - an option that is head-and-shoulders better than standard DVD - but you don't like the optional "poppin" sound when you select from the menu!?! Give me a break.


I beleive your reffering to beeping....not static popping sounds that mine, as well as some others have had with the HDA-1.

Last I checked, my tweeters were over 250.00 each....and I am in no hurry to replace them just to watch HD.

#20 of 40 OFFLINE   Chris Moreau

Chris Moreau

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 72 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 23 1999

Posted May 18 2006 - 07:07 AM

I, for one, love my A1, and hardly consider it defective. Clipped black and white levels? Chroma bug? Actually, I don't know. I DO know that the picture quality is THE best of anything that I've ever seen on my display -- jawdropping quality, in fact.

I've watched most of the HD releases that are out to date, and my unit has never, even once, locked up or even paused. From some things I've read, that may be because I don't use the supplied remote -- which, of course, means that I don't have the other remote problems, either.

Yes, it does take 40 to 50 seconds for the initial "boot-up." That seems like a pretty insignificant wait for a two hour, or longer, film.

Oh, I do have the player connected to a 1080i display, so can't comment on the 720 problem, either.

I like what Bob Black said, "don't continue to imply that others who are happy with it are in denial." I'm enjoying the heck out of my A1, and I'm not kidding myself, even a little, about that!


Back to Blu-ray, DVD, LD, Tivo, Satellite and Other Playback Devices



Forum Nav Content I Follow