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GoodFellas HD-DVD cropped to fit 16x9 HDTV?


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#1 of 46 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted May 03 2006 - 05:14 AM

The GoodFellas HD DVD Main Feature Video specs reads 1080P High Definition 16x9 1.78:1.

Not having the SD version of GoodFellas, I checked DVD Empire which has the following:
GoodFellas: 2 Disc Special Edition / DVD-Video
Widescreen 1.85:1Posted Image Color (Anamorphic)

Which format has the correct OAR?Posted Image

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#2 of 46 OFFLINE   Steve Phillips

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Posted May 03 2006 - 06:13 AM

I can't tell the difference between 1:78 to 1 and 1:85 to 1 movies on my set.

#3 of 46 OFFLINE   Chris Moreau

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Posted May 03 2006 - 06:14 AM

The original film would have been in 1.85:1 -- the most commonly used aspect ratio for film. The 1.78:1 (16X9) ratio of widescreen television is extremely close, so little information is actually lost. With the overscan of most television monitors, it would be lost, anyway.

Now, if the original film had been in a "scope" format, 2.35:1, and were cropped to 1.78:1 (as HBO-HD routinely does), that would be something to be upset about.

#4 of 46 OFFLINE   Mark-P

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Posted May 03 2006 - 06:27 AM

Like nearly all Warner DVDs that were shot spherically,the 2-disc special edition DVD of Goodfellas is also presented in 1.78:1. Most likely, nothing is cropped, only the mattes opened up a tiny bit.

#5 of 46 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted May 03 2006 - 09:50 AM

well a plasma and lcd doesnt have any overscan, is that right?

so they would show any bars that were to be seen?
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#6 of 46 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted May 03 2006 - 11:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Moreau
Now, if the original film had been in a "scope" format, 2.35:1, and were cropped to 1.78:1 (as HBO-HD routinely does), that would be something to be upset about.
Personally, I feel that the directors artistic intent is always of the utmost importance and this includes the Original Aspect Ratio of a film.
No matter how small an amount is cut off from the sides of GoodFellas, to make it a "FULL SCREEN" version for a 16x9 HDTV, I will not ever be able to see the "FULL FRAME" picture, when using this disc as the source, on my home theater screen.Posted Image

No overscan there!

Videophiles need to voice their disapproval to the studios, especially now for this fledgeling format.

Without videophile feedback, this could become as rampant as pan and scan is on NTSC DVD for 4x3 television's joe six-pack crowd, HBO-HD being another contributing factor via their broadcasts.

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#7 of 46 OFFLINE   Jean-Michel

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Posted May 03 2006 - 11:53 AM

Quote:
Without videophile feedback, this could become as rampant as pan and scan is on NTSC DVD for 4x3 television's joe six-pack crowd

It already is. 1.85:1 films are frequently transferred at "taller" ARs (typically 1.78:1, but 1.80-1.82:1 is sometimes seen as well), much as Academy ratio films are usually transferred at 1.33:1 instead of 1.37:1. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of the HD DVDs already on the market follow this practice. It's hardly a new thing and it's not as if people don't notice, but you don't see a whole lot of videophile feedback about it because most videophiles feel that a ~4% variance in framing is not worth getting worked up about (you see wider variation when a film is projected). Super35 and anamorphic widescreen films being transferred at 1.78:1 is indeed a real problem and should be resisted, but 1.85:1 films transferred at 1.78:1 (or 1.37:1 films transferred at 1.33:1 or 2.35:1 films transferred at 2.30-2.32:1) don't really get the blood boiling.

#8 of 46 OFFLINE   Ed St. Clair

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Posted May 03 2006 - 01:52 PM

If this is indeed the case, we have HD on disc first OAR victim.
As we feared, going back to last year, the HBO syndrome has infected the newest HD format.

Is the print in the same shape as the last DVD offering?
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#9 of 46 OFFLINE   Kyle_D

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Posted May 03 2006 - 02:39 PM

What Jean-Michel said.

Guys - This practice has been going on for YEARS on DVD. Most 1.85:1 films are transfered at 1.78:1 nowadays. If you didn't notice or get bothered then, there's no reason to get bothered now. Second, NOTHING is being cut off in these transfers. The mattes have simply been opened ever so slightly and the differences in framing/composition are virtually indistinguishable. I even seem to remember a post by RAH in another thread awhile back where he stated that there's nothing to get worked up over 1.78:1 transfers.

#10 of 46 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted May 03 2006 - 03:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed St. Clair
If this is indeed the case, we have HD on disc first OAR victim.
As we feared, going back to last year, the HBO syndrome has infected the newest HD format.

Is the print in the same shape as the last DVD offering?


I think there's a huge difference between HBO cropping a 2:35 movie to 1:78 and openning up the matte from 1:85 to 1:78.

The print is probably the same one used for the most recent sd dvd transfer, but it's not the same transfer, of course. The only really noticeable flaw I saw was a very narrow vertical black line down the center of the screen during one short shot during the part where Paulie is lecturing Henry to go back to his wife in Henry's girlfriend's apartment--saw the same thing on the anamorphic sd special edition.
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#11 of 46 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted May 04 2006 - 02:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
well a plasma and lcd doesnt have any overscan, is that right?

so they would show any bars that were to be seen?

Greetings

Actually Plasma and LCD sets have overscan just like every other consumer display type. It is needed to hide things that have nothing to do with the TV (problems on the broadcast end), but would cost the TV maker money if not done.

2.5 to 4% seems typical on the digital displays.

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#12 of 46 OFFLINE   Mark Zimmer

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Posted May 04 2006 - 03:03 AM

Virtually all Warner releases that were projected in 1.85:1 were released on DVD at 1.78:1. The fact that no one noticed until Warner printed the number on a case says volumes about the impact upon the image.

#13 of 46 OFFLINE   Matt Hough

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Posted May 04 2006 - 03:11 AM

I understand the OP's concerns, but I'd rather save my ire for more serious battles. When we see 2.35:1 films cropped to 1.78:1 for HD presentation on disc (as HBO and a number of other HD movie channels do), that's when I'll go into militia mode.

#14 of 46 OFFLINE   TonyD

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Posted May 04 2006 - 03:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH.
I understand the OP's concerns, but I'd rather save my ire for more serious battles. When we see 2.35:1 films cropped to 1.78:1 for HD presentation on disc (as HBO and a number of other HD movie channels do), that's when I'll go into militia mode.
yes but if wb starts with this and no one complains they may then start with wider films thinnking no one will complain.

i've always wondered why wb never disclosed a/r on their sd dvd specs.
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#15 of 46 OFFLINE   Richard Kim

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Posted May 04 2006 - 03:32 AM

The current Special Edition DVD of GoodFellas is anamorphic 1.78:1.

#16 of 46 OFFLINE   Chris Moreau

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Posted May 04 2006 - 03:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
yes but if wb starts with this and no one complains they may then start with wider films thinnking no one will complain.

i've always wondered why wb never disclosed a/r on their sd dvd specs.

I think most of us here would scream bloody murder if they start cropping 2.35 films to 1.78. However, as others have said, cropping (or opening up) 1.85 to 1.78 has been going on all along, and very few have ever commented (or noticed, for that matter). I simply can't see getting all worked up over opening the matte for that tiny amount. Also, as I said earlier, if they put in those little tiny black bars, they'd be hidden by the overscan on most sets, anyway.

#17 of 46 OFFLINE   Paul Hillenbrand

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Posted May 04 2006 - 05:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Moreau
if they put in those little tiny black bars, they'd be hidden by the overscan on most sets, anyway.
Sounds good to me!Posted Image
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#18 of 46 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted May 04 2006 - 06:19 AM

Greetings

Warner uses words like "matted" and "scope" to differentiate the aspect ratio on the DVD's. If "matted" ... it's 1.85 ... originally.

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#19 of 46 OFFLINE   Thomas Agermose

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Posted May 06 2006 - 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kim
The current Special Edition DVD of GoodFellas is anamorphic 1.78:1.

Quote:
Warner uses words like "matted" and "scope" to differentiate the aspect ratio on the DVD's. If "matted" ... it's 1.85 ... originally.

Warner does print the aspect ratio on their region 2 dvd's.
The Region 2 DVD of Goodfellas is 1.85:1 according to the cover.

#20 of 46 OFFLINE   Marko Berg

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Posted May 08 2006 - 02:29 AM

I'd be surprised if the Region 2 DVD was framed differently. Most of the time, DVD cover specs refer to the original theatrical aspect ratio rather than that of the actual DVD release. Also, the aspect ratio information on the cover is often preceded by the word "approximately."


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