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1 PB12-Ultra/2 or two PB12-plus/2's???


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted April 29 2006 - 05:18 AM

My budget is roughly $2k and I'm torn between either going with a single ultra/2 or maybe going with two plus/2's.

Any ideas?? My subs will need to be placed in the front of the room - and I have nice corners to put them in behind my monitor/main speakers.

It will be fed by a Lexicon MC-1 if that makes any difference.

I currently have an RBH 1010 SE and it simply doesn't slam the way I'd like it to for home theater. It's fantastic for music however.

Any ideas?

Thx!
Jim

#2 of 36 richardBos

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Posted April 29 2006 - 05:31 AM

I had the same choice to make. Buy the PB12-Ultra/2. The woofers are higher quality. My room is 13x9.5x20. This subwoofer is everything that SVS claims it to be. This subwoofer will leave your friends wanting more. It is great for music and movies. This thing can rattle the rain gutters off your house. Lucky I do not have any.

#3 of 36 Arthur S

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Posted April 29 2006 - 05:31 AM

Two Plus/2's with the 12.3 drivers will have significantly more output than 1 Ultra/2. On the other hand, a number of people who have tried several of SVS top performers have ended up with 2 PB-12 Ultra, (not the Ultra/2).

I would say it depends on your objective. Max volume = 2 Plus/2: a little bit more finess, 2 PB-12 Ultra, (not Ultra/2).

Since you want "slam", I would say 2 Plus/2.

#4 of 36 JohnRice

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Posted April 29 2006 - 05:39 AM

Personally, all things considered, I think I would lean toward 2 plusses for the improved room balance and ability to reduce standing waves, since it sounds like you can place them in the two front corners.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#5 of 36 richardBos

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Posted April 29 2006 - 05:53 AM

The ultra/2 will be much more cleaner than the plus. There will be less distortion at higher volumes. Does your mc-1 allow you to program out the standing wave?

#6 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted April 29 2006 - 08:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardBos
The ultra/2 will be much more cleaner than the plus. There will be less distortion at higher volumes. Does your mc-1 allow you to program out the standing wave?

I'm not sure - I'll need to look in the owners manual.

Seems like the opinions are pretty evenly split - which doesn't help! haha

Keep them coming though. I guess I could just get an Ultra/2 and then start saving for another. Posted Image

I am looking for the setup that will go the lowest and really make me feel whats happening on the screen. I'm sure both will accomplish that - but I just don't want to regret my decision and end up going through the old "sell my old stuff to get what I should have gotten in the first place" ordeal... that gets costly.

The rest of my system includes Linn AV-5140 mains, Linn Ekwal center and Linn Ninka rears driven by a Linn 5x125 amp. I just threw that out there as it may help you guys help me make my decision.

I do appreciate accuracy - and probably would give up a little spl for it.. but then again a nice T-Rex stomp shaking me out of the chair is fun too. Posted Image

#7 of 36 steve nn

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Posted April 29 2006 - 09:06 AM

Quote:
Seems like the opinions are pretty evenly split - which doesn't help! haha

Keep them coming though. I guess I could just get an Ultra/2 and then start saving for another.

I am looking for the setup that will go the lowest and really make me feel whats happening on the screen. I'm sure both will accomplish that - but I just don't want to regret my decision and end up going through the old "sell my old stuff to get what I should have gotten in the first place" ordeal... that gets costly.
Quote:
I do appreciate accuracy - and probably would give up a little spl for it.. but then again a nice T-Rex stomp shaking me out of the chair is fun too.
These Threads are always a little complicated and somewhat subjective. You could certainly buy the Ultra/2 and run it in the 20 Hz tune and pick up another down the road, but one thing to remember is while the /2 has dual drivers, the size of the enclosure doesnt increase proportionally with the driver increase..(how could SVS ship such a unit) In comparing two PB12-Ultra's to the single PB12-Ultra/2, I found the dual Ultra's more desirable. The Pb12-Ultra has a stock 20 Hz tune as apposed to the Ultra/2 25 Hz tune. The PB12-Ultra only looses a dB in headroom when it's ran in the 16 Hz tune per Ilkkas measurements. This is most beneficial in SQ, GD and FR response. Dont get me wrong..both options are very nice, but I would only go with the Ultra/2 if it was your intention of running it in the 25 Hz tune and you were short on real estate. If it's your intention to buy dual and part them, I would highly suggest the dual Ultra's myself.. no doubt about it. If you do go this rout, I would also experiment with the 16 Hz tune and see what you think? That old T-Rex will still be able to shake things up around there regarless.Posted Image

#8 of 36 JohnRice

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Posted April 29 2006 - 09:47 AM

Steve makes some of the best points you have gotten so far. I find that all too often when dealing with subs, too many people get too spec happy and forget about the real world. Over the years I have come to appreciate the significant benefits of dual subs, particularly when they can be placed in the proximity of the mains. I have never been a fan of placing subs elsewhere, particularly behind the listening position unless it is balanced with subs up front. I firmly believe the benefits of having two subs, particularly if you can place them in the front corners, is worth a small loss in spec. I suspect, unless you have an enormous room or plan to tweek the subs substantially beyond proper settings, that the dual Ultra (single driver) configuration is your best bet for the money. I seriously doubt it is something you will ever regret.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#9 of 36 steve nn

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Posted April 29 2006 - 10:00 AM

Thanks JohnRice..We got to talking about the TV-12, but I certainly wouldnt shy away from the dual Plus/2 option with the new .3 drivers. In your size room they would be fatal, but then polite at the same time in the 20 Hz tune.

#10 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted April 29 2006 - 11:02 AM

Thanks guys. I really am leaning towards a pair of plus/2's with the new drivers. I do agree with the benefits of dual subs - and am firmly planted in the real world. Posted Image

Now another question. I am looking at the standard finish on the plus/2's- and it doesn't include the PEQ... is it necessary or will I be ok without it?

If it's justified - I can splurge for it... but if it's not then I'd use the $ to buy some more DVD's. Posted Image

You guys are really helping - thanks!!

Jim

#11 of 36 steve nn

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Posted April 29 2006 - 11:35 AM

Quote:
If it's justified - I can splurge for it... but if it's not then I'd use the $ to buy some more DVD's.
Do you have a eq incorporated into your system? Only your FR response in your room itself will be able to determine if it's needed or not. 95% of the time it's nice to have for bringing a peak down to a more realistic level.

#12 of 36 RichardH

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Posted April 29 2006 - 02:34 PM

Personally, with Linn speakers all around, I'd want the best woofer that SVS offers, and that is the Ultra. You haven't stated how loud you listen, and how many cubic ft. your listening space is (including connected rooms).

#13 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted April 29 2006 - 04:25 PM

Richard,

My room is 15' W x 23' L x 9' H. My listening varies from background music to full out assault as my theater doubles as my office during the day. I am seriously considering keeping the RBH 1010 sub as my musical sub as I love their speed - they match the Linn's quite well - and the SVS's for my theater subs.

Thanks everyone for the input - it's all very appreciated. Please keep it coming as I don't want to overlook anything.

Jim

#14 of 36 SteveCallas

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Posted April 29 2006 - 04:30 PM

Quote:
The ultra/2 will be much more cleaner than the plus. There will be less distortion at higher volumes
This is incorrect. Four Plus drivers in twice as much volume with nearly twice as much power will play much louder, and have far less distortion than two Ultra drivers. Factor in that the new Plus drivers are probably one step closer to the Ultras, and I think the two Plus/2s is the obvious choice.

As for subwoofer sound quality, since they both use an aluminum cone and the same amp, what else could it come down to but measurable parameters and efficiency? The two Plus/2s will measure better in just about every category. Also, you can tune lower with the dual Plus/s without imposing as much stress as you would with the single Ultra/2.

#15 of 36 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted April 29 2006 - 04:36 PM

Hi Jim,

If you occasionally use loud to very loud volume level with action oriented DVDs...twin plus/2s would be my pick. If you push things to "reference level" (with all speakers set to small) your subwoofer(s) may be required to produce brief peaks around 125dB(maybe a little higher if you like your bass levels slightly "hot").

Also, the MC-1 offers the "bass enhance" option. To fully optimize that you would need 3 subwoofers. One for each "side" channel and one for the LFE. Options here would include...

1) going with a PB12-plus/2 for the LFE, and adding two PB10s or PB12s for the side channels.
2)going with a PB12-plus/2 for the LFE and adding another RBH sub.(so you could use those as the side subs.

Of course if you aren't too worried about the BE feature of the Lexicon...then neither of these options would probably make much sense..Posted Image

Tom V.
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#16 of 36 Allen Marshall

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Posted April 30 2006 - 01:30 AM

I have my doubts you'd come anywhere close to pushing a PB12-Plus/2 to it's limits in that room, much less one PB12-Ultra/2 or two PB12-Plus/2. Seems to me the real advantage to be discussed is the added db you get with the dual plus/2s for the real low frequencies. Unless the 6db+ rule of the thumb starts getting hazzy down there. If theres decibels to be gained, even alittle, for the below 25hz region, I would go with the dual PB12-Plus/2. I've compared the Plus/2 with the Ultra/2, and that "much more clean" comment is a bit of an over statement.
I work on Film, Animation & Sound Design in downtown Chicago.
 

#17 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted May 01 2006 - 12:28 PM

I'm fairly certain I will go with the twin plus/2's - and sell the RBH (check your for sale section Posted Image ).

I'd like to thank everyone in this thread for their help and advice - esp Ron @ SVS who emailed me all weekend! haha

Jim

#18 of 36 JohnRice

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Posted May 01 2006 - 12:55 PM

Well, that was my original recomendation. So many people were pushing the ultra so much I thought a pair of single Ultras might suffice, but I think you are getting the most bang for your buck with the pair of plus 2s.

The Hybrid System

The Music Part: Emotiva XSP-1, Thiel CS 3.6, Emotiva XPA-2, Marantz SA8004, Emotiva ERC-3, SVS PB-12 Plus 2

The Surround Part: Sherbourn PT-7030, Thiel SCS3, Emotiva XPA-5, Polk & Emotiva Surrounds.


#19 of 36 Jeff Adams

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Posted May 03 2006 - 08:53 AM

Jim, I am in the same boat. I am sub shopping right now. I really think two PB 12 Plus 2's are the way to go. I have been told that there is not a huge difference in performance between the PB 12 Plus 2 and the PB 12 Ultra 2. At least not an $800 difference. I am going the Plus 2 route. I think two of those would kill one Ultra 2.

One more option I am contemplating and maybe I will start a thread on it. I was contemplating two PB 12 NSD 2'S. I think two of those would be killer. Thats $1800 for the two of them compared to $2400 for the PB 12 PLus 2's.
"I'm your Huckleberry"

#20 of 36 Jim Swantko

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Posted May 03 2006 - 08:59 AM

Jeff - maybe we can buy 4 at the same time and get Ron to knock down the price? Posted Image

(Just kidding if you are reading Ron!)

The PB 12 NSD's are another option... hell I could fit a bunch of tubes in my room too... simply too many options and not enough $!!! Posted Image


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