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LORD OF THE RINGS Trilogy Discussion Thread


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#1 of 123 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted April 17 2006 - 09:05 AM

I had a lovely long post Posted Image Which then got eaten by the internet monster, and I posted a second post here. Which is this one Posted Image

Can a mod help me? I posted a fairly lengthy post, which you can see the top of when you allow your mouse pointer to loiter over the thread, that is sadly missing from the actual thread. Not being computer-savvy, I have no idea how to recover it. Any suggestions???

I'll repost the big one as a new post, so if the mods choose to axe this one (and Holadem's reply), it'll make sense. If not, evidence of the internet monster will remain.
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#2 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 17 2006 - 12:36 PM

There are at least two other instances of this problem. Check the feedback forum. Something's gone outta wack over the weekend.

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#3 of 123 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted April 24 2006 - 03:38 AM

There were two parts to my initial post...

A collection of links to previous Discussion Threads:

Fellowship of the Ring

The Two Towers

Return of the King

There were numerous other threads (like Star Wars has) about Extended Edition reviews, DVD reviews, Trilogy Tuesday, etc. But those were the three main ones. ROTK and FOTR both became de facto trilogy discussions after ROTK was released. I thought it'd be nice to contain major discussions of the films, et al, into one Trilogy thread, also like Star Wars (Saga thread).

The news I had, to make this somewhat valuable, is in regards to the Complete Recordings status. I had expected news on TTT:CR by now, so I inquired with a gentleman who usually is "in the know". He kindly responded, and I'll paraphrase what was said:

- FOTR:CR sold much BETTER (I had feared worse, hence the lack of info regarding TTT) than expected.

- TTT (like ROTK) has a significantly greater amount of unused material (and probably alternate stuff) than FOTR. The amount of music might mean 4 CD's, not 3. It is taking a long time to organize and get ready, but TTT:CR will be coming at some point. Hopefully this fall or winter.

Thanks for the patience to the numerous people who looked at this thread, saw NOTHING, and didn't grill me.

I do have a question. Does any member have the Cannes Pressbooks for any of the films (either language for FOTR is fine)? I just wanted some impressions.

Take care,
Chuck
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#4 of 123 OFFLINE   David Brown Eyes

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Posted April 24 2006 - 03:47 AM

Fellowship of the Rings Complete Recordings is a masterpiece and a must own for sound track fans. Just like the special extended edition DVD the complete recordings is almost perfect in every way.

I am so glad to hear that The Two Towers CR will be released, I was actually trying very hard to get information on that last week.

The first time I heard that a film adaptation of LOTR was going to be produced I almost cried. Oh dear God there is no way, no way it could do justice to the trillogy. Oh how wrong I was, and I have never been so happy to be wrong.

#5 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 24 2006 - 04:15 AM

I had my first ever LOTR marathon a couple of weeks ago at a friend's house. He has an awesome theater, complete with popcorn machine, stadium seating, the works. Simply the best I have ever seen, it's perfect. There were 6 of us.

About the movies, it was the EEs of course. Some quick impressions:

- FOTR is one dark movie. Looking back, while we were liberally giggling and commenting during TTT & ROTK, there was nary a word during most of FOTR. Everyone was rivetted to the screen and the feeling of urgency and despair could be overwhelming at times.

- Parts of TTT dragged quite a bit.

- MoS in ROTK completely spoils a powerful moment. It is SO bad as to be cringe inducing. I think for the first time ever, I am going to edit a scene out of a DVD. It is that horrible and shows no sign of getting better.

- Still I liked ROTK:EE much better than I did upon release.

- If there is a more rousing moment on film than the charge of the Rohirrim on Pelennor, I haven't seen it.

- Frodo and Sam's languid looks to each other aren't aging very well.

- The whole experience was emotionally draining, yet extremely rewarding, and at the same time, leaves you with a melancholy akin in some degrees to what war veterans must go through. Difficult to explain, really.

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#6 of 123 OFFLINE   David Brown Eyes

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Posted April 24 2006 - 05:02 AM

MoS? you have lost me Holadem

#7 of 123 OFFLINE   Robert Anthony

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Posted April 24 2006 - 05:13 AM

Mouth of Sauron.

#8 of 123 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted April 24 2006 - 06:04 AM

We have all sorts of acronyms for the films: MoS, FOTR, WiKi, etc

I remember the other bit I posted. I have NOT had a marathon, but I hope to. All I need is someone to watch my son for an entire weekend Posted Image But I do plan on making this happen at some point. Having watched bits and pieces, and reading opinions a few years later, I am probably more enchanted now than ever. The initial excitement, which lasted an ENTIRE YEAR for me, has passed; we are left with the actual films themselves, not the promise of the films. How do they stack up in the harsh light of day? Time can be perilous, especially to genre films. I think all three contain as much "movie" as you can cram into their running time as possible. There are some cringers, which we discussed quite freely in their respective threads, but each film contains at least 4 or more truly great scenes, ranging from action to spectacle to intimate drama. They could never replace the books, but they do act as a strong, worthwhile complement, and I never tire of seeing parts or all of them.

As for the DVDs, they keep on giving. I've spent quality time with each one, but I *STILL* haven't made it through every extra.
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#9 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 24 2006 - 07:30 AM

Quote:
As for the DVDs, they keep on giving. I've spent quality time with each one,
I've yet to do that, believe it or not. I watched the hour or so of the FOTR:EE extras (From Book to Script it's called?), rivetting stuff, yet never went further: I am far more interested in the art of the film than the craft (with the exception of cinematography) and therefore have little use for how the film was made (i.e., FX and the like). Rather, it is the adaptation process and directorial choices which interest me most.

How are the extras in that regard? I do intend to watch the whole thing some day(s?).

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#10 of 123 OFFLINE   Andy Sheets

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Posted April 24 2006 - 07:40 AM

Quote:
MoS in ROTK completely spoils a powerful moment. It is SO bad as to be cringe inducing. I think for the first time ever, I am going to edit a scene out of a DVD. It is that horrible and shows no sign of getting better.

I actually love the Mouth of Sauron. It's way over the top but in a way that I think is a lot of fun (this could apply to a lot of Peter Jacksons's work). I like how the mouth sort of functions as a whole face in its own right, "looking" from person to person and changing expressions. Of course, I'm still not sure why they hired Bruce Spence to play him if they were going to completely cover him up and change his voice... Posted Image

#11 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 24 2006 - 07:50 AM

He is just not at all threatening. He was litterally laughable, and laughter shoud be the last thing on anyone's mind at that point of the movie.

People have complained about the leader of the Orcs at Pelennor, yet I for his bizarre look, there was a creepiness about him, as The Professor would say, there was a great malice behind those eyes.

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#12 of 123 OFFLINE   David Brown Eyes

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Posted April 24 2006 - 07:56 AM

MoS was a freaky thing, that is for sure, and in the book was a great tool. But in the movie we all knew that Frodo was ok and so MoS did lose quite a bit of impact.

He was allso quite pathetic I have no problem with that becuase I feel that even Sauron was pathetic. He had no real strength no honor his only weapons were fear and lies.

The orc leader at Pelennor is the same for me. Yes lots of malice and bad intent but very little ability to actually use his power. He, like Sauron, was so crippled by hate that when it came time for him to actually fight there was not much to him.

#13 of 123 OFFLINE   Andy Sheets

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Posted April 24 2006 - 08:12 AM

Quote:
He was allso quite pathetic I have no problem with that becuase I feel that even Sauron was pathetic. He had no real strength no honor his only weapons were fear and lies.

That reminds of a distinction between the book and the movies, in that the villains in Tolkien's work are actually quite weak when confronted directly. Between the Silmarillion and LOTR, Sauron basically gets his ass kicked every single time he emerges to physically do battle (granted, he does mortally wound Gil-Galad and Elendil). It's mostly the arrogance and greed of people that allows evil to grow and do its dirty work. The movies made the bad guys a little more feisty in head-to-head confrontations, presumably to sell the story to audiences that hadn't read the books.

#14 of 123 OFFLINE   Michael:M

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Posted April 24 2006 - 08:38 AM

I loved the MoS in the EE of RotK; I think it adds to the moment rather than takes away, but I also know the books very well, and so the theatrical release just seemed to be missing something.

I agree the Frodo and Sam's looks don't always do well on repeated viewings. A moment that strikes me as very out-of-tone with the scene surrounding is when Frodo and Gandalf are talking at Bag End; one moment, it's all danger and shadows and rushing to get out; suddenly, they're standing, looking at each other, all smiles, discussing how surprising hobbits are; then back to the danger and rushing about.

I still can't believe the scene in RotK with the witch king confronting Gandalf was cut from the theatrical release. Man, that scene just rocks.

In RotK, the scene after the ring is destroyed with the hobbits prancing on the bed is way over the top for me. PJ's use of slow mo here and the giddiness of the hobbits just makes the scene creepy for me, and makes the hobbits look very childish.
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#15 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 24 2006 - 09:24 AM

Quote:
A moment that strikes me as very out-of-tone with the scene surrounding is when Frodo and Gandalf are talking at Bag End; one moment, it's all danger and shadows and rushing to get out; suddenly, they're standing, looking at each other, all smiles, discussing how surprising hobbits are; then back to the danger and rushing about.
Yes! I've always been bothered by that bit of editing as well, especially the music. The scene which was flowing so well, grings to a halt when Gandalf decided to take a deep breath and "my dear Frodo..." compliment hobbitses on how wonderful they are. The following sequence is fine. But yeah, definitely some ackward editing and transition.

I quite strongly disagree with Andy and David wrt to the "power" of the evil characters but I will get into that later.

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#16 of 123 OFFLINE   Ricardo C

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Posted April 24 2006 - 12:15 PM

Ahh, the Mouth of Sauron... The scene that best sums up my problems with PJ's LOTR:

- Overly literal interpretation of certain characters/themes. The MoS is described in the book as a "Black Numenórean", so he should look like a normal man. The anti-Aragorn, basically, which would have been more interesting than what we got. Kind of an Empire Strikes Back, Luke-in-the-cave moment, where our hero is confronted with what he could have become if he took the dark road. Additionally, the literal interpretation of the character's name is up there with Sauron's Big Flaming Eye.

-Sacrifice subtle character development in favor of clichéd, emotionally manipulative moments: Aragorn behaving far beneath his character by acting like the stereotypical vengeful action hero and decapitating the MoS. Is this The Lord of the Rings or Braveheart?

-Overused closeups and overdone facial expressions, as if to make sure the audience knows that This Is An Emotional Moment. "Frodo!" "No!" "Be quiet" "NO!"

-Orlando Bloom makes Joey Tribianni proud and smells a couple dozen farts.

Still one of my favorite series of all time, right below Star Wars, but man sometimes I have to skip ahead or look away.
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#17 of 123 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted April 24 2006 - 01:26 PM

Quote:
-Overused closeups and overdone facial expressions, as if to make sure the audience knows that This Is An Emotional Moment. "Frodo!" "No!" "Be quiet" "NO!"
You forgot MoS's "Aaarghs" and "Owww" punctuations.

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#18 of 123 OFFLINE   Tim Glover

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Posted April 24 2006 - 01:33 PM

Haven't done a LOTR trilogy viewing since May 2004 when the reg. dvd came out for Return. Can't remember if I did a EE marathon or not. What Holodem and others have said is quite true regarding FOTR-EE. It's one with very, very few faults. I would go as far to say it's nearly perfect and only a handful of films can claim that for me. Time remains kind to this entry, and no doubt it will hold it's own with a new generation.

In some ways, TTT has increased in my fondness for it when initially I was somewhat lukewarm. ROTK was a home run initially only less so now.

We've all said this or part of this and that's FOTR was so vital to this trilogy, for PJackson, and for New Line. If it would have tanked or even just been an average film, no telling what would have happened. But it was a Masterpiece, and remains so.

I also own the complete recordings but haven't really given it a good scrutinizing listen. I love what I hear so far though and great news from Chuck that we will still get one from TTT & ROTK.

LOTR is a great trilogy. The dvds that we got (EE) are so good that they remain satisfying even being older releases. Can't wait until I get a true high def projector (my current PJ can only output 525p) and get my hands on HD-DVD versions of these films!

I am considering a LOTR Trilogy watching event soon though. I'll keep you posted...

#19 of 123 OFFLINE   Lou Sytsma

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Posted April 25 2006 - 12:32 AM

Quote:
FOTR:CR sold much BETTER (I had feared worse, hence the lack of info regarding TTT) than expected.

- TTT (like ROTK) has a significantly greater amount of unused material (and probably alternate stuff) than FOTR. The amount of music might mean 4 CD's, not 3. It is taking a long time to organize and get ready, but TTT:CR will be coming at some point. Hopefully this fall or winter.
Great news! Thanks for the update Chuck. I have listened to the FOTR:CR extensively, of course.

The only cringe moment for me is the Legolas/Fred Flintstone slide down the Oliphaunt trunk. The hobbit comments always puzzle me. Hobbits wear their hearts on their sleeves. It is the foundation of their nature. It is this very quality that allows Frodo and Sam to persevere.
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#20 of 123 OFFLINE   Dan Keliikoa

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Posted April 25 2006 - 02:10 AM

The moment between Sam and Frodo in ROTK where they exchange looks in Frodo's 'recovery room' (with Merry and Pippin doing their hobbit-frolic) is priceless...man, that look spoke volumes, as did their farewell embrace at the harbor. Those guys REALLY went through hell and back, and Frodo especially just could never heal from it completely.

Outstanding films. I still believe FOTR:EE is nearly perfect in every way, but the EE of TTT is superb as well, and ROTK:EE is excellent.

As was said by an earlier poster, you as the viewer really feel like you've been through a war by the end. When you get to the end of ROTK and the sketch pictures of the character/actor's names roll with Annie Lennox singing "Into the West"....well, it gets me everytime.
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