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Music Replacement


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67 replies to this topic

#1 of 68 OFFLINE   BradleyK

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Posted March 28 2006 - 04:11 PM

Am I the only one who, these days, when hearing popular music on a TV show, cringes? I'm sure that producers are more savvy now about getting DVD rights before they include a song in their shows, but I always wonder, "Will I hear this music when the show is released on DVD?"

When it comes to buying a DVD set, music replacement is not always a deal-breaker for me -- is it for you? Would you allow compromises for certain shows and not for others?

The Square Pegs thread got me thinking. I never saw the original run of the show, and would love to see the unedited episodes. So much so that I would be okay with music replacement.

#2 of 68 OFFLINE   Paul Linfesty

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Posted March 28 2006 - 07:09 PM

I'm sure that producers are more savvy now about getting DVD rights before they include a song in their shows


Don't count on it. Producers still have to live within a set budget. Buying music rights for cuts aren't that high for a broadcast show (think of it as being similiar to radio air play). But selling individual copies to the public on DVD's is seen as if CD's are being sold, with a much higher royalty fee for usage.

So even with the knowledge of DVD release, producers may have to skip these rights if they need to keep the budget within a specific framework, especially with networks cracking down on exhorbinate licensing fees.

#3 of 68 OFFLINE   Andrew Radke

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Posted March 29 2006 - 12:49 AM

See this is what I like about "The O.C." (one of the shows I collect). The producers often use songs by unknown bands as the backdrop for the show. I'm sure these bands have no problem with their music being used for the DVD releases because simply put, they want their music heard. I'd say about 95% of the music in that show comes from unknown (or rarely known) bands just trying to get on the scene. Of course there are exceptions. Last season, they did use U2's "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own" and Coldplay's "Fix You". Mind you, the time those episodes aired, the aforementioned songs hadn't yet become singles.

As to whether I'd purchase a set containing replaced music? In some cases, yes. I still continue to buy "Married...With Children" regardless of the replaced theme music. Then there's shows like "Dawson's Creek" which is mostly music driven. Having seen the show many times on TBS, it may bother me to watch the DVDs knowing that most of the music has been replaced. If I'd never seen the show before, I'd probably be none the wiser.
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#4 of 68 OFFLINE   Walter C

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Posted March 29 2006 - 12:54 AM

I was just thinking that Everybody Hates Chris and My Name is Earl will have difficult times making it to DVD. Those shows has played a lot of popular songs.

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#5 of 68 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted March 29 2006 - 02:40 AM

Quote:
I'm sure these bands have no problem with their music being used for the DVD releases because simply put, they want their music heard.
That all depends on when the DVD releases are put together. If, as a result of the exposure the band gets from the show, their value as a selling feature goes up, you can expect demands to grow as well. While the bands benefit to an extent (royalties being as paltry as they are), it will be the record companies and managers who would be pushing for more bucks.

Northern Exposure is the show that leaps to my mind with music replacement. The original music was well chosen and fit perfectly, while the DVD releases have music replaced. The show is still great, and I wouldn't be without it, but it does not have the same effect it had before.

#6 of 68 OFFLINE   Michael Alden

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Posted March 29 2006 - 03:50 AM

Yet another good reason for why you should record the shows you like to DVD yourself when they originally air. This way you are not beholden to whatever company may or may not release them on DVD. You record it to a DVDR when it airs. If it comes out exactly the way it aired and you want to buy it, you can dump the ones you made. If they don't release it or they tinker with it in a way you are unhappy with, you still have the original version recorded. At thirty cents or so for good quality blank discs, you are talking about an outlay of $3.30 for 22 episodes of a 1 hour show at SP. Less than the cost of a sandwich. Not a big outlay of cash to insure you will have the show the way you want it. If you are too lazy (or cheap) to do this you have no business complaining when the studios do what they do.

#7 of 68 OFFLINE   JeffWld

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Posted March 29 2006 - 06:09 AM

Quote:
If you are too lazy (or cheap) to do this you have no business complaining when the studios do what they do.


Yet it's amazing how many of the complainers don't do this as a contigency plan no matter how many times they get burned by this less-than-surprising trend. Blind faith.

#8 of 68 OFFLINE   Ethan Riley

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Posted March 29 2006 - 06:35 AM

This issue is sometimes relevant to me, sometimes not. Depends on the way they used the music on the show. Case in point: Dawson's Creek. Yeah, they used a huge amount of music on the show, but to tell the truth, it almost always annoyed me. Because you'd have this quiet, character-driven scene with tears and confessions pouring out of Katie Holmes and meanwhile some banshee-sounding Lilith Faire reject would be screeching away in the background. The sound balance was almost always too loud and you couldn't hear the actors. I watched Dawson's for the acting and the stories, not for stupid pop songs. Couldn't care less about 'em.

On the other hand, Ally McBeal made totally integrated use of the music. Storylines revolved around certain pop songs. Vonda Shepard sang her own and standard pop songs in every episode. The songs of Barry White (and Barry himself) were integral to the stories, as was the song "Dulcinea" from "Man of La Mancha." In this show, the songs were not just background noise; they are indispensable, integral parts of the whole. They cannot remove songs from this show and still call it "Ally McBeal."

"American Dreams" would be in the same category as Ally...in that show the music was the show. The AD dvd had some substitutions, but they were mostly minor.

When dvds delete music that's pretty much only heard as background tracks, people often say well I'm not buying that dvd because they changed the music. But really, in such cases, I don't understand the fuss.
 

 


#9 of 68 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted March 29 2006 - 06:57 AM

Quote:
Yet it's amazing how many of the complainers don't do this as a contigency plan no matter how many times they get burned by this less-than-surprising trend. Blind faith.
Yes, I sure was a loser for not burning Northern Exposure to DVD when it first aired - oh wait, there was no such thing as DVD (let alone recordable) when the show first aired, and the same goes for the thousands of other shows that aren't currently airing in their first run. Posted Image

#10 of 68 OFFLINE   JeffWld

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Posted March 29 2006 - 08:31 AM

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oh wait, there was no such thing as DVD (let alone recordable) when the show first aired, and the same goes for the thousands of other shows that aren't currently airing in their first run.


I guess the 30-year availability of the consumer VCR sailed past you unnoticed. Michael's comments include burning to DVD original broadcasts from taped sources.Posted Image

#11 of 68 OFFLINE   Michael Alden

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Posted March 29 2006 - 08:45 AM

Quote:
Yes, I sure was a loser for not burning Northern Exposure to DVD when it first aired - oh wait, there was no such thing as DVD (let alone recordable) when the show first aired, and the same goes for the thousands of other shows that aren't currently airing in their first run.



Yes, recording them at SP on high grade SVHS tape wouldn't have been preferable to whining about it now that you can't get it as originally aired. But, hey, maybe the complaining about it after the fact option works better for you. After all it's much easier to blame the studios than to take any blame yourself for a lack of foresight. Seems to be a popular theme on this board. That and the anger directed at those of us who did have the foresight to record the shows we wanted when we had the opportunity.

#12 of 68 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted March 29 2006 - 08:56 AM

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the anger directed at those of us who did have the foresight to record the shows we wanted when we had the opportunity.
I think the anger might be more directed at people who act like those who didn't record a show fifteen years ago at SP on high grade SVHS are ignorant savages who are getting what they deserve for their lack of foresight.

What if someone discovered a show in reruns or on DVD? They should've had the foresight to know that they'd like it when it was on its network?

And if I've recorded something from TV in the last decade, I get the network logo throughout the episode and commercials instead of a end credit seqeunce on my beautiful DVD-R copy.

#13 of 68 OFFLINE   AnthonyC

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Posted March 29 2006 - 08:58 AM

Until recently (past ten years or so), did anyone really think they wanted to rewatch every episode of a certain show? You can't blame people for not recording episodes as they aired because I'm sure that everyone figured that if the shows were ever released, music replacements and edits would not be a problem.

#14 of 68 OFFLINE   Jeff Ulmer

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Posted March 29 2006 - 09:01 AM

Sorry, but VHS quality is NOT DVD quality, and never has been, and even with VHS there are still thousands of shows that predate that invention (not to mention that VHS was not in the average home for a long time after its initial release). Also, I'm sure the majority of people who are now collecting these shows never gave a thought as to how or if they would appear on home video, or had never even heard of the shows until very recently. They were content to watch them on TV and in reruns.

Until a few years ago, there was no such issue as music replacement, at least not publicly. Be smug all you want, but most people have better things to do in their lives than tape TV shows just in case 20 years from now they want to burn them onto another home video format. There is no anger directed at you, only at your attitude that everyone else somehow lacked your superior intelligence and forsight, and don't have catacombs filled with taped broadcasts dating back to the invention of television.

#15 of 68 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted March 29 2006 - 10:02 AM

Well I'll chime in.

Music replacement is always a deal killer for me. Replace the music (any music), and I'm not buying it.

As for being at fault for not recording it off tv on the initial run - excuse my French - but that's complete bullshit.

As others have pointed out vhs tape is not dvd, not in quality and definitely not in durability. Those tapes deteriorate with each play.

And I was supposed to, as a high school kid who didn't even have a vcr, record WKRP in Cincinnati when it was first broadcast because I should have had that foresight, when the producers of the show itself didn't have the foresight to secure the rights for future media? Again, bullshit.

Maybe I should have had the foresight to telepathetically send a message to my father years before I was born to record (on a vcr that didn't exist) I Love Lucy, so we'd have that missing section from season 4. Damn, what was I thinking? How irresponsible could I have been. Posted Image
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#16 of 68 OFFLINE   Michael Alden

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Posted March 29 2006 - 11:16 AM

Quote:
Until recently (past ten years or so), did anyone really think they wanted to rewatch every episode of a certain show?



Uh, yeah, believe it or not some of us did. Considering TV has gotten continually worse over the past 3 or 4 decades, yeah, we did think of it.

Quote:
I think the anger might be more directed at people who act like those who didn't record a show fifteen years ago at SP on high grade SVHS are ignorant savages who are getting what they deserve for their lack of foresight.

Well, we didn't say that publicly, but now that you mention it . . .




Quote:
And if I've recorded something from TV in the last decade, I get the network logo throughout the episode and commercials instead of a end credit seqeunce on my beautiful DVD-R copy.


That's what those C-Band satellite dishes are for. You see, the network affiliate feeds are bereft of those pesky things.


Quote:
VHS was not in the average home for a long time after its initial release


That makes me very glad that neither I nor my friends are average.

Quote:
everyone else somehow lacked your superior intelligence and forsight, and don't have catacombs filled with taped broadcasts dating back to the invention of television


Hey, the alternative is to rely on the studios to take great care in releasing all of the shows that you want in the exact same form as they aired. How's that working out so far?

Quote:
As others have pointed out vhs tape is not dvd, not in quality and definitely not in durability. Those tapes deteriorate with each play


First statement is definitely true but not the second.

#17 of 68 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted March 29 2006 - 11:33 AM

Are you sure you're not from Unpleasantville? You're the ultimate collector and everyone else isn't in your league. Happy, now?

#18 of 68 OFFLINE   JeffWld

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Posted March 29 2006 - 12:31 PM

Quote:
Damn, what was I thinking? How irresponsible could I have been.


You aren't doing any thinking because the point of this thread has been missed. Michael is stating that IF there was a show that was so precious to you at the time of original broadcast AND IF you had recording capacity, why didn't you record it to enjoy again and again? Seems ironic since that's exactly what you are doing now by buying shows on DVD to collect and watch again. So, the defenders in this thread:

1. Want to buy shows on DVD that pre-date them...Fair enough

2. Want to buy shows on DVD that they didn't bother to record themselves when they had the capability..Fair enough

3. Expect the shows to be exactly as originally broadcast...Not a chance

4. Trust that the studios will maintain the highest integrity in their releases...Not a chance

5. Believe someone else should do their homework for them...Constantly

6. Want it all....Some things never change

#19 of 68 OFFLINE   TravisR

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Posted March 29 2006 - 12:55 PM

Quote:
So, the defenders in this thread:
Who is defending replacing music?


Quote:
Believe someone else should do their homework for them...Constantly
Who said that?


Quote:
AND IF you had recording capacity, why didn't you record it to enjoy again and again?
If you've recorded anything off of the network for the last decade, you have the logos and commercials during the credits on those recordings. Granted, that's only applicable to those of us without C-Band satellite dishes.

My only problem has been the holier than thou attitude that one person in this thread has. And I'm not going to speak for anyone else but I'd guess that many others would have the same problem.

#20 of 68 OFFLINE   MattHR

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Posted March 29 2006 - 01:48 PM

Quote:
My only problem has been the holier than thou attitude that one person in this thread has. And I'm not going to speak for anyone else but I'd guess that many others would have the same problem.


Well, you just spoke for me. I decided it was best not to join this "discussion." Besides, my knuckles are sore anyway. This thread made me realize I've been dragging them my whole life.


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