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PS3 possibly delayed until spring 07, format war not game over , but game on


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#101 of 120 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 15 2006 - 08:59 AM

Marc,

Sony has been intentionally vauge about the launch-date for the PS3 since the beginning (phrases like "aiming for spring" etc.). It's also been widely known that the PS3 would probably be delayed past the early speculations (not firm dates) of spring. This statement by Sony is, for the first time, giving a concrete time-frame. I hardly call that "smoke and mirrors".

By CONTRAST *Toshiba* has consistently promised release dates and then fumbled each and every one. They still don't even have product specifications for the 2 HD DVD player models ready for vendors despite the supposed sale date for this month (congrads to Toshiba if they really do make their deadline for release), and Warner has already had to back-pedal their original launch-date for software titles.

If *any* group has been playing the smoke-and-mirrors game, it's Toshiba.


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HD-DVD has a good chance at a nice lead with standalone players being much cheaper than any Blu-Ray players on the market before November.

We'll have to wait and see. Toshiba is already pricing their players far below manufactured cost. Of course, with a little more subsidizing by Microsoft, they might be able to lower them a few dollars more...

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#102 of 120 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 15 2006 - 09:50 AM

I seem to remember saying something like this earlier:

Quote:
Kutaragi also reiterated that that the PS3's internal media drive will not be a low-end BD player with limited functionality. "The PS3 will feature a BD Player that is up to the latest specifications," he said. "Although some people may think that the PS3 will be a poor man's BD player, it uses the Cell chip, RSX [graphics card], and High-Definition Multimedia Interface [HDMI]. We believe it will be the most cutting-edge player on the market."

http://www.gamespot....ws/6146007.html

not too bad a "compromise" if you ask me... Posted Image
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#103 of 120 Juan C

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Posted March 15 2006 - 09:17 PM

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Who said the ps3 will be a full featured blu ray player. I doubt that as who would by a stand alone model? Remember the dvd player with ps2 was pretty featureless

A lot of people over at dvd file are ordering HD DVD players. You can not ignore price, availability, and being first to market.

Echoes of beta max are starting to show

John, could you please rename the thread to "PS3 definitely delayed until Nov 06..."

Thanks.

#104 of 120 Marc Colella

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Posted March 15 2006 - 09:37 PM

Quote:
Sony has been intentionally vauge about the launch-date for the PS3 since the beginning (phrases like "aiming for spring" etc.). It's also been widely known that the PS3 would probably be delayed past the early speculations (not firm dates) of spring. This statement by Sony is, for the first time, giving a concrete time-frame. I hardly call that "smoke and mirrors".


Actually, Sony's been stating "Spring 2006" as late as last week - constantly denying any delay even though it was obvious they knew that that time frame wasn't possible. Add the fact that Sony has shown very little from their console (other than making absurd claims about it's performance), including not having any playable demo's available and only passing off pre-rendered clips as in-game graphics - all to avoid having consumers know their situation. I call that smoke and mirrors.

High Definition DVD will be a tough sell regardless of format, I just don't see Blu-Ray as having a much better chance than HD-DVD.

#105 of 120 Cory S.

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Posted March 15 2006 - 10:51 PM

I'm hopeful that Kutaragi's statement about the PS3 not being a poor-man's Blu-Ray player are accurate when November comes, David.

This was the last stepping stone for when it came to deciding on whether or not to buy a Blu-Ray player outright or just a PS3.

That statement pretty much seals the deal for me. The PS3 will be my first Blu-Ray player. I'll upgrade the player after I buy the HDTV next year.

This is looking good. Isn't this fun, people?
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#106 of 120 Dave H

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Posted March 16 2006 - 03:30 AM

Quote:
Actually, Sony's been stating "Spring 2006" as late as last week - constantly denying any delay even though it was obvious they knew that that time frame wasn't possible. Add the fact that Sony has shown very little from their console (other than making absurd claims about it's performance), including not having any playable demo's available and only passing off pre-rendered clips as in-game graphics - all to avoid having consumers know their situation. I call that smoke and mirrors.


I agree. More and more of what Robert George said on AVS a few weeks back seems to becoming true.

#107 of 120 Jesse Blacklow

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Posted March 16 2006 - 03:57 AM

Quote:
I agree. More and more of what Robert George said on AVS a few weeks back seems to becoming true.
I don't see it. He had one line about the PS3, and it seemed to indicate it wouldn't be ready until Xmas, maybe. Well, according to official sources, it's no longer maybe. I'd say less and less about his statements are coming true, especially considering the word from the studios that HD DVD titles might be coming several weeks later than the hardware. Added to that, there will be a few titles instead of "a couple dozen", and a very limited rollout of hardware. It's not looking good for anyone.
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#108 of 120 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 16 2006 - 03:57 AM

Good points about Sony sitting on the "spring" thing until yesterday. Though it has been "known" by most groups for a while that the PS3 would be delayed...though Sony did wait until yesteday to officially announce it. My guess is they wanted to wait until they were certain about their November launch date so when they announced the "delay" they'd be able to follow it up with a concrete date for release.

At the very least, it's certainly no *more* dishonest than Toshiba which announced their HD DVD titles for March and probably knew THEN that they could never really make that date...but wanted to try to steal some HD thunder in the press and sway the minds of gullible consumers... planning all the while to "delay" at the last minute and hope that the market confusion would defuse the bait-and-switch dates.

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#109 of 120 Jason Harbaugh

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Posted March 16 2006 - 05:45 AM

One thing about this whole delay announcement is that Sony surely knew that Spring was out of the question but they also knew that they had this big presentation coming up with their new proposed release dates along with more hardware info. So why spill the beans before that and end up diluting their big presentation? It just happened that websites and reporters started asking all those questions about the release and started spreading tons of rumors so Sony ultimately had to respond with what was their current official stand, Spring.

Not exactly the best situation to be put in.

If you looked at all the news, technology and gamer sites yesterday, they were all filled with PS3 headlines because of that presentation. Would it have been that big of a news day for Sony if they leaked out all the info before hand? Maybe?

Kind of a lose lose situation I guess. At least that is how I could see it happening behind the scenes.

And the good news for us North American folk, the PS3 is still right on the guestimated time.

#110 of 120 Nils Luehrmann

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Posted March 16 2006 - 07:11 AM

Quote:
At the very least, it's certainly no *more* dishonest than Toshiba which announced their HD DVD titles for March and probably knew THEN that they could never really make that date...but wanted to try to steal some HD thunder in the press and sway the minds of gullible consumers... planning all the while to "delay" at the last minute and hope that the market confusion would defuse the bait-and-switch dates.
I remember earlier this year Toshiba, Warner, Paramount, and Universal were all saying over and over again in press releases that HD DVD players and content would be definitely coming out before the end of 2005, possibly as early as the Fall. Posted Image

I still feel Sony made a financial mistake by not offering a basic model PS3 without a Blu-ray player so that they could compete head-to-head with the Xbox 360. On the other hand, as a consumer if that extra year means it will result in a superior model at perhaps a more reasonable price, then I'm all for that. I’ve waited this long for 1080p video, I think I can wait a few more months. Posted Image

In addition, seeing as the PS3 was never realistically going to make it to the States until late 2006 any way, it isn't like anyone placed an order for one and was then told it that not only isn't it going to be available, but they also don't know when it will be available... like those that preorder HD DVD titles last month.

There are also some other possible advantages of the PS3 delay for both consumers and manufacturers. With the extra time, perhaps this will allow Sony to include the 2xBD, and it will also give a window of opportunity for Sony's BDA partners to sell stand alone BD players to some anxious early adopters without having to compete with the PS3's aggressive pricing.

#111 of 120 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 16 2006 - 07:20 AM

Jason,

excellent post. Those are my thoughts exactly.

And this line:

Quote:
And the good news for us North American folk, the PS3 is still right on the guestimated time.


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For everyone out there gumbling about Sony having "misled" them with their original Spring-projection. I hope you realize that that "Spring" release was just for Japan...and that it's *always* been assumed that the US release wouldn't happen until fall.

For U.S. consumers...nothing has changed! Posted Image
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#112 of 120 Ed St. Clair

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Posted March 16 2006 - 07:27 AM

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Fiscal year which ends in March 2007. When doing that math, Nov-March = 5 x 1m = 5m. So 2m at launch.

Read the article, is say's one million a month & six million in 2006. Not '07, starting in Nov.. Using the figures and time frame giving in the article, show me how to get to six million, without changing the facts. If you have information that differs from the Sony press release, please share it with all of us so we can also "do the math".
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5 x 1m = 5m So 2m at launch.

Are you saying the press release is wrong about this figure being meet in 2006? You must not believe in to much of what Sony is saying, then.
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A couple million people will get one.

If the Sony press release is correct, one million a month PS3 shipped, Nov. & Dec. will see them shipping 2m units world wide.
I did not say nobody would get one!
I said it will be tough and it will be. Good luck going up against the Gamers to all the HT fans. You'll need it!
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Sony's been doing the smoke and mirror's thing all this time to avoid showing how very far behind they are.

Not to fight you, Marc, butt...
Both warring formats are behind. To the point I hope both Sony & Tosh go up in flames. With the good people at LG (and anyone else with a uni) making EVERYONE forget about BD & HD-DVD and people just thinking "HD on Disc"!
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This statement by Sony is, for the first time, giving a concrete time-frame.

Why does "this statement" start off with an apology, then. Do not try to re-write this press release, DaViD. Apologies in Japan are taken seriously. How good do you think the guy felt, having to start the press conference off with an apology?
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We'll have to wait and see. Toshiba is already pricing their players far below manufactured cost.

Stop posting this without figures to back it up!
Otherwise, it's just FUD.
Sony's overrun cost to market pricing has been release by both an outside group & Sony. I've yet to see anything on Tosh & A1. It may be true, however, what is the figure, a $1 or a $1000. Or, are they making $1 or $100 on each unit.
Well since you keep saying Tosh is losing money (you have called it "cheating") in the grand tradition of the internet I will now state;
Tosh is (cheating by) making money on the A1 & XA1!
So tell me...
is that FUD?
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We believe it will be the most cutting-edge player on the market."

Which backs up everyone's suggestion of why pay $1000, let alone $1500, for a BD player. How can other BD producers be pleased by this statement?
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#113 of 120 Jason Harbaugh

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Posted March 16 2006 - 07:50 AM

Quote:
Read the article, is say's one million a month & six million in 2006. Not '07, starting in Nov.. Using the figures and time frame giving in the article, show me how to get to six million, without changing the facts. If you have information that differs from the Sony press release, please share it with all of us so we can also "do the math".
The article is wrong, whichever one you found. Read the actual slide from the presentation. 6m FY06 which ends in March of 2007. If you check out all the articles that I saw posted here, Forbes, IGN etc they all say the same, 6m by the ends of FY06.

6 Million - Fiscal Year 2006

All the Slides

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Which backs up everyone's suggestion of why pay $1000, let alone $1500, for a BD player. How can other BD producers be pleased by this statement?
I'm hoping that will create a price war among BD manufacturers and also a feature war. If the PS3 actually does turn out to be a full featured player and a decent one at that, then there is no excuse for the others to produce a low priced, high featured player. Competition within the group is good too.

#114 of 120 Ed St. Clair

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Posted March 16 2006 - 08:39 AM

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Sony will unleash one million units per month with a total of six million units in 2006 alone.

Jason,
Jeff posted this (#87). I see clearly in the article;
Quote:
Sony will be targeting shipments of 6 mln units of the new console by the end of March 2007.

I'm wrong, you are right.
I'm glad your right. I thought that it meant Sony would have a 5m release for PS3 in Nov., with 1m in Dec.. Now, the world will be fighting over 2m PS3's at most before the holidays. Bring a... no I will not say it. Butt, be prepared, be very prepared.
Quote:
I'm hoping that will create a price war among BD manufacturers

And you see that as a "good thing", OK. I asked how that statement would make other BD producers feel.
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#115 of 120 Nils Luehrmann

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Posted March 16 2006 - 08:51 AM

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Recent announcements also suggest that Blu-Ray disc prices will come at a significant premium over existing DVD prices.
I missed this blurb in the article that Pete cited earlier. Doing a check on pre-order prices for several Blu-ray titles shows that they are selling between $17-$24. I would not call that a significant premium... One more reason to celebrate the format war. Posted Image

#116 of 120 Ed St. Clair

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Posted March 16 2006 - 08:54 AM

Quote:
One more reason to celebrate the format war.

I'm not waving that flag! ;-)
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!

#117 of 120 Nils Luehrmann

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Posted March 16 2006 - 09:02 AM

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BTW: Click HERE for more good news from the format wars.

#118 of 120 Jason Harbaugh

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Posted March 16 2006 - 09:04 AM

Ed, I agree that it is going to be a tough time getting a console this holiday season. The "a couple million will get one" comment earlier was kind of a joke, not a great one mind you. Posted Image

All in all, those who really want a PS3 this fall should be able to get one. Just gotta follow the rules of the road with any console release, preorder from a place that actually fulfills them, instead of expecting to pick one up off the shelf.

And I did misread your last statement. Other BD manufacturers surely can't be happy but at the end of the day they still are all competitors, even though in a seperate war they are on the same side. If Sony can put out a full featured player for a fraction of the price of standalones, more power to them.

#119 of 120 DaViD Boulet

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Posted March 16 2006 - 09:13 AM

Nils.

Brilliant!

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#120 of 120 Jesse Blacklow

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Posted March 16 2006 - 10:25 AM

Nils, you forgot the "Clone Wars" miniseries: 50 episodes of pointless bickering on internet forums. Posted Image
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