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What is the bitrate of uncompressed 480p, 720p, 1080p?


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#1 of 14 Ken Burkstrum

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Posted February 04 2006 - 12:16 PM

I fit it all in the title.

#2 of 14 Steve Berger

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Posted February 04 2006 - 01:52 PM

Well, let's see here. This is going to sound poor, but 480p and 1080p are monitor resolutions not video specifications while 720p could be either a broadcast spec or a monitor resolution. 480i, 720p, and 1080i are broadcast specs and are variable bitrate and are compressed by definition. The numbers refer to vertical resolution and don't even define the horizontal spec. 480i can be 704x480, 720x480, 352x480, 540x480, etc.

What exactly are you trying to find the bitrate for? Camcorder capture, TV broadcast, DVDs?

#3 of 14 Ken Burkstrum

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Posted February 04 2006 - 11:08 PM

DVDS=compressed
TV Broadcast=compressed
Camcorder Capture=compressed

DV captures at 25Mbps. I am not sure if that's the bitrate raw 720x480 untouched video is, I doubt it.

I record 1280x720 computer games at 300Mbps, but I'm not sure if thats it.

There is a difference between raw no compression and lossless compression, even if it's not noticeable. I'm wondering what it is, my theory on 1920x1080 is like 1.2Gbps but I'm not sure. I speak of video with a framerate of 24 of course. I have no idea what 4:4:4 means when people talk about 1920x1080 so you got me on that one.

I don't know what kind of technology pro filmmakers with digital cameras like Lucas use, but I'm sure they record at the top of the latter so you could say I'm asking what is the bitrate those ridiculously expensive 1080p cameras they use record at? Or does lucas record even higher...2k? 4k?

By the way, I thought until recently that all DVDs were 720x480, but I seen alot of articles saying it's 640x480 and I see you battin all kinds of 480s, is there's a single resolution DVDs are released at or is it all over the place?

You don't have a real widescreen until your record it in that aspect and have a resolution that equals that aspect correct? So I always thought they did 720x480 and just cropped and stretched and did whatever stuff they do that you would technically consider fake.

#4 of 14 Steve Berger

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Posted February 05 2006 - 05:04 AM

I forgot about the movie cameras and I don't remember what resolution and bitrate they run at. (2K and 4K sound about right for resolution) Resolution determines the amount of detail and bitrate determines how well motion is converted. 720x480 will capture all the detail a DVD is capable of but a low bitrate will cause artifacts. "Jeopardy" might work at 2Mbps while the "Super Bowl" will run out of room at 8Mbps.

The mpeg (compression) spec is pretty liberal and VCD, SVCD, XSVCD, CVD, DVD, etc are all subsets of it. Since mpeg is used for Broadcast and CATV transmission, as well as various recording devices, the numbers will be all over the place trying to fit maximum data into the space available. (bandwidth, spectrum, disk space) A DVD should be 720x480 at a typical average bitrate from 3.5 to 4.5 Mbps and a max of 9.8Mbps. You can create one outside these numbers but you risk playback problems if you exceed them. (PAL is 720x576)

DV is at 25Mbps and is very slightly compressed almost raw IIRC.
300Mbps sounds like a pixel or clock rate for a graphics chip. Your recording device determines the resolution and bitrate.
640x480 is not a DVD format but you could be seeing some of the discussions of square pixels versus rectangular pixels.

For DVD info you should check the official FAQ. http://www.dvddemyst...com/dvdfaq.html and for mpeg start at http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/index.html , and for creating your own disks http://www.videohelp.com/ .

#5 of 14 Jongyoon Lee

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Posted February 05 2006 - 06:00 AM

Interesting thread.

While I'm no expert in the video processing, I would imagine that the bitrate is relevant parameter in the compression technology. Bitrate is one indication of how much the contents are compressed compared to the original. In addition, if the compression allows streaming, bitrate indicates the required bandwidth in order to stream the contents without interruption.

The bitrate of uncompressed digital video can be simply calculated by something like

{frames / sec} * {pixels / frame} * {bits / pixels}

I do not know how many bits are needed to represent a pixel in uncompressed video. hmm. In fact, what does uncompressed video mean? I'm not sure if there is video equivalent to PCM of audio.

#6 of 14 Ken Burkstrum

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Posted February 05 2006 - 06:05 AM

Quote:
300Mbps sounds like a pixel or clock rate for a graphics chip

I'm confused, it doesn't look like any of your responses are directed towards my questions?

No I'm not getting 300Mbps confused, that's the bitrate it records at. Takes up about 2GB for a minute of footage.

#7 of 14 ChrisWiggles

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Posted February 05 2006 - 06:11 AM

Quote:
No I'm not getting 300Mbps confused, that's the bitrate it records at. Takes up about 2GB for a minute of footage.

That's very high, you're probably captured pretty high resolution, but into what file format? Because that's pretty high, HD is about 10gb/hour usually, that's MPEG2.

Quote:
In fact, what does uncompressed video mean? I'm not sure if there is video equivalent to PCM of audio.


Essentially. But there are many different kinds of uncompressed video just as there are many different kinds compressed. Uncompressed just means that it hasn't been MPEG2 or 4(usually) compressed. It could be any bit-depth, linear or non-linear,4:4:4 or subsampled, different framerates, etc etc.

#8 of 14 Ken Burkstrum

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Posted February 05 2006 - 06:57 AM

Quote:
That's very high, you're probably captured pretty high resolution, but into what file format? Because that's pretty high, HD is about 10gb/hour usually, that's MPEG2.


From what I've seen, thats alot lower than professionals use at 1280x720. Though I yet to get information on it, the most I've heard is somebody with 720p recordings at 500Mbps and 1080p at 1.2Gbps. AVI by the way.

#9 of 14 ChrisWiggles

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Posted February 05 2006 - 07:02 AM

Quote:
From what I've seen, thats alot lower than professionals use

Yes, the 10gb/hr was for compressed OTA HD. Uncompressed stuff, or even subsampled but uncompressed D5 is going to be a great deal more than that.

#10 of 14 Ken Burkstrum

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Posted February 05 2006 - 08:13 AM

I wasn't talking about your HD-DVD quality I was talking about my 300Mbps being low.

#11 of 14 Ken Chan

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Posted February 05 2006 - 11:09 PM

Quote:
I have no idea what 4:4:4 means
It describes how much color detail is recorded along with the black&white (luminance) element of the image. You can get away with less color detail; 4:4:4 is not cheating at all (same as 1:1:1). Higher-end systems use 10-bit values (instead of 8-bit), so using Jongyoon's formula (in reverse):

30 bits per pixel (10 each for each element) times
1280 * 720 pixels per frame times
60 frames per second
equals
1.66 Gbit/second for "raw" 720p

Quote:
There is a difference between raw no compression and lossless compression, even if it's not noticeable
A lossless compression scheme could easily compress the resulting file in half. The problem is that there's so much data, you'd need some pretty hot hardware to do it in real-time.

Quote:
I thought until recently that all DVDs were 720x480, but I seen alot of articles saying it's 640x480
Almost all DVDs are 720. There are two other allowed widths, 704 and 352. 640 is not one of them; those articles are wrong, oversimplifying, or talking about something else. You might end up watching a DVD at 640x480 because the aspect ratio is 4:3, and 640x480 is 4:3, while 720x480 is not. In fact, 720x480 is not 16:9 either. The key here is that DVD pixels are not square. The same grid of pixels can represent either a 4:3 or 16:9 picture. In either case, the pixels must be stretched, either taller or wider, and remapped so you get the right image on a display, almost all of which are square-pixel. (The notable exception being tube TVs and monitors, which have lines, but not pixels, per se.)

So for 4:3, you can take 720x480 and squeeze it slightly to 640x480. Or make it a little taller to 720x540. If you play it full-screen and your screen is 4:3, then it works itself out.

#12 of 14 Leo Kerr

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Posted February 06 2006 - 01:08 AM

Quote:
I don't know what kind of technology pro filmmakers with digital cameras like Lucas use, but I'm sure they record at the top of the latter so you could say I'm asking what is the bitrate those ridiculously expensive 1080p cameras they use record at? Or does lucas record even higher...2k? 4k?


Lucas uses the Sony Cinealta camera system that records to HD-CAM tape. In Clones, using the first-gen Cinealta, the compressor in the camera is a two-stage compressor.

Stage 1: resample the 1920x1035 image to 1440x1035.
Stage 2: MPEG-II I-frame only compress the image to tape. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 300MBits/second, I believe.

The Thompson/Philips VIPER camera, on the other hand, is a completely different animal, recording roughly 4k X 2k, uncompressed, to either a very large block of RAM, or to an external RAID-5 hard-drive box.

VIPER has another tremendous advantage in that it's something like 12bits/pixel, and apart from a minimal pixel-noise / pattern noise removal, it does no image processing, whatsoever, recording the data in telecine formats, suitable for a direct suck into a daVinci color tweaking box.

Uncompressed HD moves a whole lot of bits around; the 1.6GB/s for uncompressed HD isn't far off, but in my experience, most are, in fact, 8bit/channel.

Leo Kerr

#13 of 14 David Dutton_286985

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Posted November 02 2013 - 08:05 AM

Well, let's see here. This is going to sound poor, but 480p and 1080p are monitor resolutions not video specifications while 720p could be either a broadcast spec or a monitor resolution. 480i, 720p, and 1080i are broadcast specs and are variable bitrate and are compressed by definition. The numbers refer to vertical resolution and don't even define the horizontal spec. 480i can be 704x480, 720x480, 352x480, 540x480, etc.

What exactly are you trying to find the bitrate for? Camcorder capture, TV broadcast, DVDs?

 I know you wrote this YEARS ago, but your info was soooo wrong.. even at the time.

 

HD resolutions have always been: 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, and ALL are broadcast specs as stations, cable TV, and Sat TV "broacast" many things in 1080p. It just was not used for the longest time to the enormous bandwidth it took (and storage space) to run 24-30 FPS with a compression that didn't make things look lossy



#14 of 14 schan1269

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Posted November 02 2013 - 09:20 AM

 I know you wrote this YEARS ago, but your info was soooo wrong.. even at the time.

 

HD resolutions have always been: 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, and ALL are broadcast specs as stations, cable TV, and Sat TV "broacast" many things in 1080p. It just was not used for the longest time to the enormous bandwidth it took (and storage space) to run 24-30 FPS with a compression that didn't make things look lossy

Broadcast does not count VOD.

 

 

OTA has never nor will it ever be 1080P.




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