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Reload this Page Toshiba to have access to Blu-Ray Tech


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#1 of 14 EricRWem

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Posted January 26 2006 - 04:16 AM

http://www.tgdaily.c....ss_to_blu_ray/

Looks like that back door just cracked open a little bit...

#2 of 14 Greg T

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Posted January 26 2006 - 04:25 AM

Toshiba knows a winner when it sees it....in the other campPosted Image

Maybe not having studio from all of these studios...has them thinking Blu.
MGM
Miramax
Sony Pictures
Fox
Disney
Pixar
Lions Gate
Columbia Tri Star

#3 of 14 Ken_F

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Posted January 26 2006 - 04:28 AM

What the article doesn't mention...

Is that Sony has a similar partnership with NEC. Posted Image

The HD-DVD drives in the Toshiba HD-DVD players are manufactured by the Sony/NEC joint company.

#4 of 14 EricRWem

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Posted January 26 2006 - 04:33 AM

Ken F wrote:

Quote:
What the article doesn't mention...

Is that Sony has a similar partnership with NEC.

The HD-DVD drives in the Toshiba HD-DVD players are manufactured by the Sony/NEC joint company.

Exactly. And with all that cross pollination and crossover happening, even amongst companies on "opposite sides" of this format war...one wonders how much of this is nothing more than manipulation or a farce of sorts.

I want to quote someone who made some excellent points at AVS in response to this story. If he also posts at this forum, so much the better, but he deseves credit for this:


bferr at AVS wrote:
Quote:
can now see that there is no real format war. All that's left to be answered is how big a success will BD be and how soon will Universal announce its support?

With all of these weird corporate alliances behind Cell processors and HD DVD/BD drives, I personally think we're all being manipulated. We're not really questioning whether we're going to buy into HD discs at all. We're being manipulated into choosing sides, therefore we have a personal stake in the outcome of the war. It's not "do I feel I absoultely have to have HD discs?'; it's "man, I hope my side wins."

This "war" is sucking all the fun out of this hobby.


More proof that we're being manipulated: the on-again/off-again ICT downrezzing fiasco. If I was an owner of an older analog set (luckily I am not), I'd probably be placing preorders for players, cancelling them, placing preorders, cancelling them, because the story keeps changing so quickly. Will it restrict HD over component or won't it? Let's get a straight answer once and for all.

And if there's enough of an outcry from analog-only owners, the studios will "reluctantly" agree to not enforce ICT and allow HD over component. And there will be a great sigh of relief from these owners because now they can buy-in to the format. Again, it's not "are HD discs are right for me?"; it's "man, I better be able to play them on my TV. I can? Great! Here's my $1800." See? Manipulation.



Yes, but Toshiba is hedging its bets from a perceived position of weakness. They already are the underdogs in this thing, so aligning themselves with their opponent in this back-channel kind of way doesn't really speak to the confidence they have in their product. Sony, on the other hand, may be hedging its bets by making HD DVD drives, but its clearly not from the position of weakness-- more like a smart business move.

See, there's the move itself, and then there's how the move is perceived. And perception is akin to reality in this format "war."

I really can't disagree with any of that. Perception IS reality, and the PERCEPTION is clearly: Toshiba is cracking the back door open.

What format war?

#5 of 14 Don Solosan

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Posted January 26 2006 - 05:24 AM

It's like Pearl Harbor all over again -- except the Japanese are bombing themselves!

#6 of 14 Greg T

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Posted January 26 2006 - 05:26 AM

I agree that Toshiba shows more weakness in this scenario.
I believe what it comes down to is the huge studio support advantage by BD, and the fact the there will be more BD players installed in homes by the PS3, than all other players from both formats combined.

The ps3, as well as the tighter security measures by BD are why the studios will stick with BD.
I don't believe hd dvd will be around much past 07 at this point.

#7 of 14 Ryan-G

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Posted January 26 2006 - 05:34 AM

IMO, the driving force behind this "format war" and the only reason it hasn't ended before it started is Microsoft.

Toshiba and Sony could've negotiated some comprimise that would've benefited them both. Probably would have were it not for MS.

MS has the most to gain from this, and has risked the least. If MS could have engineered Blu-Ray's downfall, they could have seriously impacted both Sony and the PS3 as competitors. Blu-Ray losing would have a huge impact for them. So, they keep pushing it. Sure, Toshiba would've made a good deal of money from winning the "Format war", but what MS is playing for is worth a vastly larger amount of money than even DVD. So they take a risk and try to undermine their competitor. Again.

Microsoft's the only major major name touting HD-DVD now, they're also key on the whole digital protection scheme, as they're building it straight into Vista.

As always, Microsoft's got it's fingers in the pot and are trying to manipulate the game to work out best for them.

#8 of 14 EricRWem

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Posted January 26 2006 - 05:47 AM

^^ You got it!

If MS weren't backing HD-DVD right now (Along with tag along Intel)...we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now and I think things on the HD-DVD side would already be wrapped up for the most part.

#9 of 14 Greg T

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Posted January 26 2006 - 06:51 AM

M/S vs the world = an M/S loss imo.Posted Image

#10 of 14 Ed St. Clair

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Posted February 02 2006 - 07:07 AM

Quote:
Toshiba and Sony could've negotiated some comprimise that would've benefited them both.

Sony "could've", however they flat out refused to.
The two main players for each format (Sony & Tosh, not MS), meet last year to compromise. Sony would not budge on layer depth. Tosh was willing to meet them half way (literally). Just ask Sony, they will tell you they refused to compromise layer depth, therefore ending negotiations.
Quote:
IMO, the driving force behind this "format war" and the only reason it hasn't ended before it started is Microsoft.

FYI, Sony broke away from the HD Forum, not MS.
Now if your saying MS threw its considerable weight around to bring Sony back into the fold, that's a fact, Jack!

Well, this news tells me one format has a chance to survive and both formats have a chance to survive. It's no longer an "all or nothing" battle for the two contesting companies.
I see it as good news, although a little underhanded as well!
Hope this leaves the slightist opening for a uni player.
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HD should be for EVERYONE!

#11 of 14 ChristopherDAC

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Posted February 02 2006 - 07:27 AM

Well, since layer depth is the real breakthrough with Blu-Ray, the one thing which distinguishes it definitively from other LaserDisc-based technologies, and which gives it a big part of its technical superiority [5 to 3 data storage ratio over HD-DVD], I'd say they kind of had a point. I wouldn't have been willing to compromise that either. Why not fault Toshiba for insisting on retaining an outdated, counter-productive layer-depth spec? You'd be exactly as just, no more, no less.

#12 of 14 Ed St. Clair

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Posted February 02 2006 - 10:58 AM

Christopher,
Tosh was not "insisting on retaining an outdated, counter-productive layer-depth spec". Tosh's compromise (Sony did not have one) was to meet half way between the layer depth of BD & HD-DVD. This would have been a completely new layer depth, not based on LD. Sony refused. Thus, killing the last chance for the two A/V companies to not have a format war.
Quote:
Well, since layer depth is the real breakthrough with Blu-Ray, the one thing which distinguishes it definitively from other LaserDisc-based technologies, and which gives it a big part of its technical superiority

Granted, BD's layer is the reason for greater compression on data on the disc. Yet, this war could have been diverted if Tosh's compromise was accepted. With both companies then having to split the HD pie. Which if Sony truly believed they indeed had a "winner" would be a tough thing to do (no matter what pain this decision may infect on the public). The compromise would have lead to lower storage. While movie playback capabilities would not have suffered.
It would have been a step back (tech wise) to make a leap forward (eliminating the format war).
Twenty years from now, 'nobody' will care. However, its a big deal for all of us going though these HD on disc birthing pains now!
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!

#13 of 14 ChristopherDAC

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Posted February 02 2006 - 12:03 PM

The thing is, the reason why Toshiba wanted to keep the DVD layer depth was, ostensibly, so that they could use DVD tooling and machinery. If they had changed it even a little bit, the change in tooling and machinery would have been the same as if they had changed it all the way. In this case our variable is not a continuous function, "layer depth" in microns: it is a two-valued function, "change" vs. "no change".

Toshiba would have been giving up all the advantages of their plan, without getting any of the advantages of Sony's -- I wouldn't have proposed it if I were serious, so I doubt they were. It's a Japanese thing, about giving your opponent a chance to reject an alternative which is unacceptable to you too.


#14 of 14 Ed St. Clair

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Posted February 02 2006 - 02:12 PM

Quote:
Toshiba would have been giving up all the advantages of their plan, without getting any of the advantages of Sony's -- I wouldn't have proposed it if I were serious, so I doubt they were. It's a Japanese thing, about giving your opponent a chance to reject an alternative which is unacceptable to you too.
Sounds like you believe those meeting were a complete waste of time, as neither party was serious about not getting into a format war.
I thought neither side wanted (or was for) a format war, just neither side was willing to give up its position of strength.
The only hope I saw was the layer compromise or a universal player. Neither of which has come to pass. So, I guess it does not even really count if Tosh's offer was real or not. Cause in the end, it doesn't even matter!
Movies are: "The Greatest Artform".
HD should be for EVERYONE!


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