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svs 20-39-isd, pb12-isd, or velo-dls5000r???


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#1 of 86 Jordan Placheck

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Posted January 21 2006 - 08:48 AM

The sub will be going into my finished basement which is 15ft wide and 30ft long. Which sub should I choose? The SVS 20-39isd is $599. The PB12-isd is $599. The Velodyne DLS5000R is around $600 shipped depending on who I buy it from. How would these subs compare in terms of depth and spl? I've heard the velo at a local dealer and I was amazed by the forceful bass that it could produce. I was just wondering if the svs subs could give me any added performance? Thanks!

#2 of 86 mackie

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Posted January 21 2006 - 02:47 PM

Also consider HSU STF-3 for $599 and the Outlaw PFM-1 for less than $599. Of course I'm only making this recommendation to torture you while you make your decisionPosted Image There's nothing like more options to make the decision harder. I own a STF-3 in a similar sized room and it rocks!

#3 of 86 Arthur S

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Posted January 21 2006 - 11:41 PM

I think the 20-39PCi will go deeper than the Velo, however, the Velo may give you a bit more SPL above 30 Hz. In a room that size, the Velo may have the edge for that reason.

So, I would say the answer is yes, the 20-39 PCi will likely give you "added performance" from about 18Hz-25Hz, but the Velo will probably give you "added performance" from 30Hz up.

If you think you will we looking to upgrade your sub in the future, SVS makes that pretty easy.

#4 of 86 Oren Paul

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Posted January 22 2006 - 01:42 AM

I have a 20-39PCi in a 12' X 35' room and I am very pleased. If I had it to do over I would get the Ultra. The internet companies SVS, HSU, and Outlaw offer the most bang for the buck I could find 15 months ago when I spent 6 months listening to every thing I could doing research. Do not trade HZ for SPL, low HZ is what pressurizes the room and my SVS will make your flesh crawl in some sceens.

#5 of 86 Jordan Placheck

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Posted January 22 2006 - 04:07 AM

Arthur "If you think you will we looking to upgrade your sub in the future, SVS makes that pretty easy."

What do they do to help a person upgrade? I have another factor to bring into my situation. I would be buying the velo from a non-authorized online dealer to get the sub for $600 shipped. My local dealer is offering me the demo for $640 tax included. I could also buy factory direct from the other companies mentioned. I think I'm in over my head on this one.

#6 of 86 mackie

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Posted January 22 2006 - 04:23 AM

Any of the subs will be fine. You always take a chance when buying from a non-authorized dealer.

#7 of 86 Arthur S

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Posted January 22 2006 - 04:31 AM

I was able to trade a lesser model towards a more expensive model on the best possible terms. Things like this go on a case-by-case basis, however, SVS is very generous when it comes to upgrades. They appreciate customer loyalty and try to reward it. Ron and Tom have some of the best business practices in the industry.

I would stay away from the unauthorized dealer on the Velo.

SVS also has a good return policy. If you were to get a 20-39PCi (which I have), and weren't satisfied, you could return it.

I don't know how anxious you are to make this purchase, but a B-Stock 20-39PCi @$549 is a great value. That is what I did. They had a couple last week, but they go fast. My B-Stock 20-39 PCi was in perfect condition.

You can call SVS and ask about a B-Stock, you might get lucky. But if you don't want to wait, a new 20-39PCi @$599 is also a fine value.

#8 of 86 John S

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Posted January 23 2006 - 02:43 AM

The Velo's are fine. To meet similar demande you would have to go to one of the dual 12" SVS subs.

Less of a chance on this particular product of buying from an unauthorized dealer because the product is amazingly solid. Very very few problems with these.


I use one, the sub provides amazing demand for the money.
My favorite $600 and below sub for sure.

#9 of 86 Jordan Placheck

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Posted January 23 2006 - 04:36 AM

wow...I didn't know that the velo would compare to one of the dual svs's...when I emailed svs with my question they recommended the pb12-isd/2 sub "at least" for a room of my size. They also said that I needed a bigger sub because the floor was carpet-covered-concrete.

#10 of 86 John S

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Posted January 23 2006 - 04:45 AM

With that said, go with the Velo, or one of the dual 12" SVS subs. The sub is one place you definetly want more than you need, not less.


I actually had a shoot out in another memeber here's dedicated theater between the Velodyne DLS5000R and a monduy SVS Ultra/2 and let me tell you, the cheapo Veldyne held up extremely well to the nearly 4 times the price sub.

The DLS5000R is really just that good of a bargain is all for what you get.


Here is that thread:
http://www.hometheat....unday Shootout

#11 of 86 Jordan Placheck

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Posted January 23 2006 - 05:53 AM

That thread was awesome...I wonder if steve nn ever got around to testing that Dayton 15" MK III kit.

The specs seem pretty impressive, and I think it would be kinda fun to put the kit together.

I will probably end up getting the velodyne DLS5000R sometime soon. What program (jazz, rock, game, theater) do you use most of the time?

#12 of 86 John S

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Posted January 23 2006 - 05:59 AM

I want extension. Movies.. I used to select different modes for music, but I don't even do that anymore, just leave it at movies. Movies gets you real strong output at 20hz anyways.

#13 of 86 John Garcia

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Posted January 23 2006 - 06:11 AM

Jordan - no gear lists in sigs allowed here. See item 6: http://www.hometheat....ge=1#signature

The 20-39 will have very strong output below 25Hz. IMO, that is a good thing. I've heard the 25-31 in a large room and I was still quite impressed with it. The PB-12 sounded quite similar. I heard a 20-39 Plus this weekend and it was also very impressive, putting up some big numbers and compared very well to my 15".
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
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#14 of 86 Jordan Placheck

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Posted January 23 2006 - 06:36 AM

John Garcia- Oops, thanks for the heads up.

You also said "...compared very well to my 15"."

What sub do you have again?

#15 of 86 John Garcia

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Posted January 23 2006 - 08:26 AM

I have a 15" Adire Audio Tempest, which was built by a friend (DIY). I would say it is somewhere between 16-46 Plus and an Ultra. The 20-39 was very impressive, registering over 100dB from 36Hz to 18Hz, which even the Tempest doesn't give me at ref cal (it will if I crank it up Posted Image ).

I've owned the PB-10 also, and while your room isn't as large as mine, I'd say you'll need something bigger than that for car audio type bass. One problem is the 15x15 - square rooms can be a problem in particular for bass.

You might contact both HSU and SVS, give them the room dimensions and what it is you're after, and I'm sure both will give you good recommendations Posted Image
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
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#16 of 86 ScottCarr

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Posted January 30 2006 - 08:39 AM

Hi Jordan
When you are reading reviews of various subs look at the room sizes the subs are in. I have heard a PB12+/2 in my HT and the exact same PB12+/2 in a larger HT and it sounded much better in the bigger room.

I had various sub configurations in my 13x15 HT.
Every set up plays loud and one can definitely feel it.

When I wish to really listen to music I usually on run 1 PC Ultra. This keeps the bass from overpowering the rest of the audio range. The PCU has a more solid and smooth sound to it. Of course my opinion can be disputed.

Contact SVS and HSU and share you intentions and desires. I am sure both companies will recommend a product or two to fit your needs.

#17 of 86 Tom Vodhanel

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Posted January 31 2006 - 04:01 AM

>>>wow...I didn't know that the velo would compare to one of the dual svs's...when I emailed svs with my question they recommended the pb12-isd/2 sub "at least" for a room of my size.<<<




Hi Jordan,

A dls5000 won't even come close to any of our dual driver subwoofers in the DEEP bass(<32-35hz). In the mid to upper bass, both designs will do fine. In a recent shootout in the UK...an older(old drivers, old enclosure design) PB12-plus/2 produced over 100dB of bass at 20hz, with a relatively low 14% THD(total harmonic distortion). This is measured outside, 2 meters from the mic. The dls5000 couldn't produce 20hz at all in their distortion tests. At 25hz, the PB12-plus/2 produced 106dB of output with only 6% THD. At 25hz(and the same 6% THD), the dls5000 was around 75dB. That is a 31dB difference. Or, another way of looking at that is...it would take about 30 of the dls5000s to equal the same 25hz output of a single PB12-plus/2. If you look at the maximum output for the dls5000 at 25hz...it was a respectable 95dB(which is still 11dB less than the SVS), but the THD was literally off the charts (which only went up to 30%).

THD is one of the most important real indicators of "clean" subwoofer output. If anyone tries to convince you that IMD(Inter-modulation Distortion) is an issue at these frequencies...ask them why no subwoofer reviewer has EVER bothered to measure IMD in any subwoofer review ever published to date? Icons in the A/V industry like Tom Nousaine and Don Keele have included THD limits/measurements in their subwoofer reviews for decades. And the current breed of subwoofer reviewers like Ed Mullen, Keith Yates, Peter Aczel all include THD, but not a single one includes IMD. Even “amateurs” (and I quote the word amateurs because their work is BETTER than many of the “professional” reviews I have seen) like the avtalk guys(whose work I cited above) and Ilkka include all sorts of measurements in their tests…but not a single IMD measurement. Why no IMD measurement in decades of subwoofer reviews? Easy. It is a completely meaningless red herring...simply introduced to try to take attention away from the REAL performance factors that dictate subwoofer performance(much like the big group delay myth).

Tom V.
SVS

#18 of 86 rob-h

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Posted January 31 2006 - 04:39 AM

Tom V., I thought all along that Velo claim by some was fishy. Could not find any comparo's to check on it though. Do you have a link to that test you quoted from?

#19 of 86 John S

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Posted January 31 2006 - 05:01 AM

I had a good shoot out in an average room between an Ultra/2 and a DLS5000R....

There is no fishyness about the claims. The numbers came out to what they came out to between the two subs.


I ran the tests, with EQRoom Wizard. The SVS playes hard to 16hz, the Velodyne plays hard to 20hz and they both eaily met the demand. The best by far was with both subs running.

The distortion on the velodyne at 20hz was pretty close to what the SVS was at 16hz. The SVS was cleaner but you pay a lot for that small increase in real world performance in an average room.


In a chamber or outside tells one story, but in a typical dedicated theater, a totally different real world perspective can be obtained.


I looked at the shoot out numbers on that U.K. test. Some of the parameters of the test were not the same for the two subs.

I'm glad I had the oppoertunity to gauge them myself.

#20 of 86 John S

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Posted January 31 2006 - 05:09 AM

I would be most happy to bring my DLS5000R over and show it off against another Ultra/2......


This would be a real eye opener for all the number heads on the matter.


There are certainly no claims I am aware of that the DLS is even as good a sub as the SVS dual 12"'s. But there is evidence to show real world performance in a tpyical room is just not that far apart.

Both subs easily hit 110db at 20hz by the way.