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The Mary Tyler Moore Show: The Complete Third Season -- A Personal Review


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#21 of 93 JohnMor

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Posted January 21 2006 - 05:51 AM

I actually like the S3 cover the best so far as well.

RE: "Mary Richard and the Incredible Plant Lady" I was thrilled to see how good it looked. As David VP said, the scene in Rhoda's apartment (like all of them this season) is REALLY colorful, especially with the green plants as contrast.

Also, one thing I never really thought about before in the ep though: since Rhoda put a down payment on the car, instead of giving Mary back cash, Mary is now stuck paying on a loan the bank forced her to take out, as well as a new car note. Thanks Rhoda! Posted Image Posted Image

#22 of 93 David Lambert

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Posted January 21 2006 - 08:05 AM

I like the S3 art a lot.
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#23 of 93 Mike Frezon

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Posted January 21 2006 - 10:08 AM

Quote:
Am I the only one who actually likes the 3rd season artwork ?


Quote:
I like it. It's actually my favorite of the three covers so far.


Quote:
I actually like the S3 cover the best so far as well.


Quote:
I like the S3 art a lot.


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#24 of 93 David Lambert

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Posted January 21 2006 - 12:37 PM

Actually, I'm not a leg man at all. :P)
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#25 of 93 Dan*T

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Posted January 21 2006 - 05:49 PM

Thanks for the review!!Posted Image

Now, if we could only get them to relese Rhoda to coincide with the next few MTM releases!!Posted Image
Whomever has contacts at Fox, start pushing the Mary spin-offs and maybe it will prompt them to start releasing Rhoda, Lou Grant & Phyllis!!
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#26 of 93 ElijahS

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Posted January 21 2006 - 05:59 PM

My thought is they might start with Rhoda when the two shows start hitting the same season (when MTM hits its fifth season, we see the first season of Rhoda). Maybe.
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#27 of 93 David Von Pein

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Posted January 22 2006 - 10:56 AM

I just noticed the following comments made by a reviewer at Amazon.com (re. a small edit to the "Plant Lady" ep. in S.3).....

"What I DID notice that was rather disappointing, was that a scene in the aforementioned episode {"...Plant Lady"} had been edited. At the 17 minute mark, Ted walks into the newsroom singing to himself. In the original version (as well as the versions I have seen in syndication), he was singing "Anything You Can Do (I Can Do Better)", from "Annie Get Your Gun". It was a brief, but funny moment, and memorable Ted Baxter. Instead, on this DVD, the sound has been dubbed over so that he is simply mumbling nonsense ("do do do"). I'm assuming this has something to do with rights. Maybe Fox could not get them, or did not want to pay for them, but still, the result is a version that has been tampered with, from the original."

-------------

I just took another look at the scene in question....and that reviewer certainly is correct (although I must confess I had not noticed the edit at all until reading that review about it).

Ted Baxter's words (as he hums a song to himself) have most certainly been dubbed over with other nondescript humming. That must certainly indicate that the rights to the song that Ted is mumbling weren't obtained (or couldn't be acquired) by Fox Home Entertainment for this DVD release. That's a shame, indeed, but not Earth-shaking either, IMO.

The same thing, of course, also occurred in the first-season DVD set during the excellent Christmas episode, when portions of "White Christmas" were edited off the DVD soundtrack. Again, that's not a good thing either...but not nearly calamitous enough to keep me from enjoying these ever-so-slightly altered episodes of this superb TV series.

Also, as talked about earlier in this thread, there is indeed a disclaimer (of sorts) re. that "Plant Lady" episode printed on the back of the third DVD case. Although it doesn't specifically mention anything about that episode being "edited" in any manner, it does give the impression that the show's quality is subpar in some way. The exact words, again, read: "This episode has been restored to the best quality possible given the vintage source material".

Obviously, via those words, they don't seem to be warning the public that the episode has been altered in some way. It's probably a reference to the slightly-wobbly video quality that occurs during a small portion of the final (epilogue) scene. The PQ isn't rock-solid during that scene, which might have prompted that disclaimer.

It's kind of funny, though, that the only such "vintage source material" disclaimer for any of the 24 eps. coincides with the episode that has the slight amount of dubbing as well. Makes me wonder if Fox hesitated to come right out and use that word that is poison to many a-DVD buyer, "edited". And, instead, decided to use other terminology to describe that one program's flaws (including the edit).

Posted Image ~shrugs~

#28 of 93 george kaplan

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Posted January 22 2006 - 12:41 PM

I skipped season 1, bought season 2, and now I'll be skipping season 3. Posted Image
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#29 of 93 David Von Pein

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Posted January 22 2006 - 01:06 PM

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I skipped season 1, bought season 2, and now I'll be skipping season 3.
And all because of ten seconds' worth of mumbling.

A real shame, IMO, George...because Season Three is an absolutely-sensational year for MTM and Gang. I've thoroughly enjoyed re-visiting these episodes. Haven't seen these eps. in a long time.

And, as I said, I wouldn't even have known of that approx. 10-second edit if some keen-eyed MTM fan hadn't mentioned it at Amazon.

(Maybe I should have kept my yap shut about it. Posted Image)

#30 of 93 Amit Ashar

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Posted January 22 2006 - 01:16 PM

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I skipped season 1, bought season 2, and now I'll be skipping season 3.


What was wrong with season 1? And what would you have done if you found out about the edits after you had bought it?

#31 of 93 David Von Pein

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Posted January 22 2006 - 02:38 PM

Amit .... Season 1 also has a very small edit in it -- in the Christmas episode (as I mentioned earlier in Post #27 of this thread). Mary is singing "White Christmas" in one scene while watching TV, and some of that song has been edited out (along with Mary's following line of dialogue -- "And now for my next number, I think I'm going to cry").

It is, indeed, unfortunate that FOX didn't acquire the rights to certain music...but that's what we have to live with. (Either that or be Mary-less forever. I'll choose the former, thank you. Posted Image)

#32 of 93 george kaplan

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Posted January 22 2006 - 03:49 PM

It's a matter of principle. When a show is cut unnecessarily (it's a different story if something is lost, but when a studio is too fricking cheap to secure the music rights, that's unacceptable), I'm not buying it. I don't expect others to do the same, but for me, editing and/or non-OAR are nonpurchasable offenses.

If these get rereleased complete on some high def format someday, then I'll get them then.

what would you have done if you found out about the edits after you had bought it?
Just what I'm doing. I did buy it (though I haven't opened it) and I'll be returning it.
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#33 of 93 Mike*SC

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Posted January 22 2006 - 05:04 PM

Well, George, you're certainly a man of principle. But boy, are these cuts minor. And though you might find them unnecessary, these cuts (totalling a few seconds over three seasons) may well have been necessary to make the sets economically viable. I cannot stress enough that music clearance issues are not (well, not necessarily) the result of laziness or cheapness -- music rights holders can hold studios for ransom, or outright refuse to grant rights for any reason they so choose. I happen to know specifically about one show where music was cleared for broadcast (years ago), and when the rights-holder saw the show (not the specific use of his song, the series in general), he regretted his association with it. When it came time to negotiate for a DVD release, this rights-holder simply refused. That was it. There was no option to license the music for the DVD. The rights-holder would not let it happen.

I'm not suggesting this specifically happened with MTM, because I have no idea. I do know that Irving Berlin's estate can be very prickly about any licensing, which could account for "White Christmas."

If this is, nonetheless, an outrage to you, so be it. I can't imagine missing out on a whole, great season of MTM because the singing of part of one song was replaced with humming. But that's me.

#34 of 93 Joe Lugoff

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Posted January 22 2006 - 05:59 PM

Both "White Christmas" and "Anything You Can Do" are by Irving Berlin. He, and now his estate, have been notorious for driving hard bargains. I would suspect Fox wouldn't meet the probably outrageous demands of the estate.

Examples of the "Berlin problem:"

Irving Berlin sued Mad Magazine in 1964 for writing parodies of his songs -- not so much because he minded the parodies, but because they didn't pay him -- and he lost the case.

In a documentary a few years ago, someone at a political rally was heard singing "God Bless America," and the Berlin estate demanded a substantial fee.

One of the reasons Irving Berlin became known for driving hard bargains was because he lived to be 101, and thus was one of the few people in history who outlived his copyrights. It really irritated him to see his creations go into public domain.

Therefore, it's NOT a coincidence that the two songs omitted from "Mary Tyler Moore" were both by Irving Berlin. So don't blame Fox -- they had to deal with what might be the most difficult songwriter's estate of all time.

#35 of 93 george kaplan

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Posted January 22 2006 - 10:17 PM

Well, unfortunately, that's all speculation. And basically, I'm being asked to give the studio (an entity in general, which I believe to be every bit as greedy as any copyright holder out there) the benefit of the doubt, which I won't do.

The thing is, that there are lots of dvds with Irving Berlin music in them, uncut, so I have a hard time believing that the studio couldn't have secured the rights for an economically feasible price.

I'm also disinclined to give the studio the benefit of the doubt when their disclaimer is so clearly misleading.
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#36 of 93 David Von Pein

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Posted January 23 2006 - 07:00 AM

Quote:
I'm also disinclined to give the studio the benefit of the doubt when their disclaimer is so clearly misleading.

To be fair re. the disclaimer issue on the S.3 disc -- The "vintage source material" disclaimer might very well ONLY be referring to the slight lack of pristine PQ in the tag scene for that one episode, and might have nothing at all to do with the edit within that same program. Beats me.

#37 of 93 george kaplan

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Posted January 23 2006 - 08:20 AM

OK, fair enough, but either they gave a misleading warning about the cut, or no warning at all.
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#38 of 93 Stephen Wight

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Posted January 23 2006 - 09:45 AM

Quote:
In a documentary a few years ago,someone at a political rally was heard singing "God Bless America," and the Berlin estate demanded a substantial fee.
I didn't know that Irving Berlin wrote the U.S. national anthem.His estate wanted to be payed for somebody singing the national anthem?Talk about unmitigated greed.

#39 of 93 george kaplan

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Posted January 23 2006 - 10:16 AM

God Bless America isn't the national anthem. The national anthem is The Star-Spangled Banner by Francis Scott Key, though This Land is Your Land by Woody Guthrie would be a better choice.
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#40 of 93 David Von Pein

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Posted January 23 2006 - 11:19 AM

Tons of apologies in advance of this post.......

Quote:
I didn't know that Irving Berlin wrote the U.S. national anthem.
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

I'm sorry, Stephen, but that just hit a ticklish spot.


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