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What would keep you from buying into the HD formats?


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#21 of 98 JonZ

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Posted January 17 2006 - 01:25 AM

"Having to have the player connected to the internet or a phone line in order to just watch the movie."

Exactly. I will NEVER buy a HD player while this is required.

#22 of 98 MarcoBiscotti

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Posted January 18 2006 - 03:46 AM

Unlike others, I'm quite confident from the hardware end of the spectrum.

I think that within two years time, once the dust settles and both the public and manufactuerers have a chance to become more familiar with the new formats and are able to smoothe out possible kinks and recognize the full potential of what the hardware has to offer (as has been the scenario in the past), I'm sure there will be little left for concern.

I take more issue with the software end.

The number one deterrant for me, will be if I am unable to replace S-DVD A. with BLU-RAY disc B.

At the very least, if I am to jump in and support this new format which offers such potential, I expect to have mirrored exactly that of what's been available on DVD. At the very least!

In other words, if I am to purchase the newest edition of Alice In Wonderland on Blu-Ray, I expect to have ALL possible extra features, commentary tracks, deleted scenes, storyboards, outtakes, isolated scores, etc.

It should serve to REPLACE my DVd collection, by offering the DEFINITIVE and thus SUPERIOR version of whatever film, in high-def format.

Everytime I purchase a new film in High-Definition, I expect to have my old DVD listed on Ebay that same afternoon. Without the licensing issues that were brought up since the days of laserdisc and with the extra storage capacity, this should be a given!

If there is ANY reason at all that would have me questioning such a decision, be it audio tracks, questionable aspect ratios, etc. I will pass on the release without a second though.

I just don't have enough money, available space, time, etc. to deal with that.

I don't even care if every single DVD ever released (adeptly) is represented in the exact same way on Blue-Ray, with only an improved transfer. That's enough for me.

What I expect, is for Blue-Ray to offer at worst - an exact replica of the previous DVD release, with a much improved upon high-def a/v transfer. At best, scenario a. with improved added content.

I don't think every film requires hours of extensive documentaries and whatnot. What we've been given already is pretty suffice and thorough for the most part. How many different ways can you say the same thing about a movie anyway?

But I expect ALL previous DVD features to be represented.

I expect OAR no matter what!

I expect original restored soundtracks to made available alongside any new or improved upon surround theater remix!

In the case of "niche market titles", animted films, etc. I expect them to be made available as originally produced, complete, uncut and in the best possible audio video quality.

If the slightest indication of what we've been seeing recently with some of Universal's reissues (supposedly "brand new video transfers" which prove marginal at best, at times indistinguishable, trimming of previous extras and basically little motivation to upgrade) start to surface on Blue-Ray, I will jump ship pushing aside all women and children on my way overboard at first sight!

At the same time, I do not want to see the studios manipulating their films in any "questionable" ways to try and adhere to the qualities and resolution high-def. If a movie was shot soft-focus with muted tones or is forty years old... I do not want excessive filtering and color enhancement where it doesn't belong and digital p[rocessing or any such garbage to try and make it look liek Toy Story 2 just because it's on a high-definition format!

All I am hoping for, is that we eventually see all that we've gotten on DVD so far, and hopefully more to come, in a vastly improved high-def image, with the same extras and perhaps additional features.

NOTHING LESS.

If I feel we're beeing slighted in any way and that my motivation to upgrade is being lessened by a lack of effort on the studios part to deliver -- and it could be as trivial as a 7 minute studio short or an inconsequential interview or 14 minure featurette, I simply won't adhere. Not even if we're given the best picture quality in the entire world!

Because in a format opted initially to US! -- finally WE the collectors market! -- I have no intention to send the message out to the studios that this is acceptable and I will support them if this is the direction they intend to take.

I expect the BEST in every way.

I invested too much on standard DVD to accept anything remotely less.

High Definition DVD should be a replacement and not an "addition" to my library.


That's my only real concern at this point and I will wait to see exactly how it's addressed when the first string of releases begin to hit the market.

#23 of 98 DeathStar1

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Posted January 18 2006 - 08:12 AM

When DVD first came out, I bought it for the PC first. It was easy to upgrade and relativley inexpensive... Going a bit off topic, some of the things that will prevent me from upgrading on the PC are...

- Forced previews, Anti Piracy Warnings, 'These Comentaries do not reflect the views' warnings...and anything else that keeps me from going directly to the menu...

-having to buy new hardware to comply with copy write protection to get it to be playable at all.... I don't want to spend another 500$'s on a new monitor, another $550 on a new motherboard, and $200 on a new operating system just to view HD content...

- Not being able to DVR HD shows like I can now. If the new Vista won't let you record and burn shows recorded, that'll be the last straw...

If someone is willing to spend the time and effort neccesary to build a website warning the average consumer about these perils, I'll host it for free on my server. Maby a concerted media campaign and write in campaign is needed to get these changes abolished...

If these copywrite protection measures are thwarting the consumer, it's only a matter of time before the pirates are hacking it and back in buisness again, so what does it help, really?

#24 of 98 Brent M

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Posted January 18 2006 - 12:41 PM

Well, the format war is the main thing that will keep me from buying into HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray. Until one format wins out or a universal player is brought to market, I WILL NOT spend a cent on the next generation of DVDs.
"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

#25 of 98 Stan Rozenfeld

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Posted January 18 2006 - 07:44 PM

I want to see plenty of titles and netflix renting them out. I am one of those who likes to have one and only one player on my rack. I currently have Sony 9100ES which does excellent dvd/cd/sacd playback. I need a blu-ray player that will support the above formats, so obviously I am not buying the first generation of those. The $1800 Pioneer won't even support CDs, from what I hear. I also have to say that I detest the blu-ray group's 'price doesn't matter, let's ignore the mass market' attitude. Blu-Ray is out for me until they change that attitude.

Having said all of the above, I have to applaud Toshiba's aggressive attitude... and if money is available, reviews are good, and initial prices are right, I might get the cheaper Toshiba hd player strictly as an hd player, and let my Sony do SACD/CD/DVD playback. We'll also see if Toshiba can do good SD sclaing/playback. I haven't made up my mind on this though.

But ultimately, my long term fantasy scenario is one dominant high quality, cost effective hd format. Then I would buy a flagship an Hd/dvd/sacd/cd player (sort of like Denon 3910 with hd playback) and pump everything to my new hdmi 1.3 receiver that I will buy as well, and then from there to my new 1080p TV which I will also buy. By that time those TVs will have full 1080p input and have contrast ratio/black level to rival film. Then I'll be happy. :-) Ok.. time to get back to the real world.

Stan

#26 of 98 StephenP

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Posted January 19 2006 - 03:12 AM

Blindness, unemployment, players over $400 or disks over $25 would keep me from upgrading.

#27 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 20 2006 - 01:31 AM

What would keep me from buying an HD format:

    [*]Having to connect my player to the internet to have movie playback or access "normal" features that ought to just be on the disc (I don't mind internet used for downloading 50-language subtitles and stuff like that).
    [*]A format that is unable to offer at least 50 gigs in dual-layer mode. Posted Image[/list]
    What would keep me from buying a particular HD movie title?

      [*]Improper mastering with artifacts such as DNR, edge-ringing, or lack of fine detail from fitlering.
      [*]Improper film-digital transfer of large-format films that are clearly inferior to the original large-format prints. Ex: Hello Dolly in 70mm was like looking through a window...better than any IMAX I've ever seen. If the HD version looks blurry, there will be no excuse. If the 1080P version of Ben-Hur or Oaklahoma are as soft-focus and "off" as their current DVD which bear no resemblence to the razor-sharp large-format film image original...the studio should be shut down and everyone sent home.
      [*]HD representations of films that have improper "presentations" issues such as incorrect color-timing or framing.
      [*]HD versions of movies that drop *essential* bonus features that were already on the DVD. I don't mind some bonus material being dropped, but not anything really worth having. My plan is to sell off my DVDs as I replace them with HD versions...I don't want to lose valuable bonus material in the process.[/list]
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#28 of 98 Tom Rhea

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Posted January 20 2006 - 03:43 AM

1. The internet connection issue - I don't have one at home and won't be getting one under any circumstances, so no matter how good it looks, if it requires it I won't get it.

2. No or slight improvement over what I already have. My Sony HDTV (with HDMI) arrived just this week, accompanied by an upconverting DVD player, and so far it's like looking out a window at stuff that's happening outside. I can't imagine either of the formats being THAT much better than what I've got, but I've been surprised before.

3. The sorts of movies typically released by Criterion being unavailable. They wouldn't have to come from Criterion specifically, but if what's available is mostly the sort of stuff that appeals to adolescents, I've got no reason to upgrade.
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#29 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 20 2006 - 03:57 AM

Quote:
3. The sorts of movies typically released by Criterion being unavailable. They wouldn't have to come from Criterion specifically, but if what's available is mostly the sort of stuff that appeals to adolescents, I've got no reason to upgrade.


Posted Image


I'd take Babette's Feast or 7 Samari in 1080P HD over a crystal-clear version of American Pie any day.
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#30 of 98 FrancisP

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Posted January 20 2006 - 09:19 AM

SD = Complete control over media and HD = No control over the media. Until that equation changes, I will not be buying into HD.

That means:


1. No invasive firmware.
2. No 90 minute limit on time-shifting.
3. Fair use extended to HD.
4. No HDMI.


I fully intend to keep on purchasing SD until it changes.

#31 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 20 2006 - 09:37 AM

Quote:
NO HDMI.

I think you mean no required HDMI to get full HD resolution.

After all...HDMI provides a higher-quality image over component all things being equal since it maintains an all-digital pathway from disc to display...
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#32 of 98 ChristopherDAC

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Posted January 20 2006 - 10:08 AM

SD = Complete control over media
Not true. Macrovision, CSS, region lock, software control lockouts: all there. You may be able to cicumvent them, but there they are.
Quote:
HD = No control over the media
Also not true. You have just about the same degree of control as over DVD -- less whatever circumventions you may be using, which have no equivalents yet.
No 90 minute limit on time-shifting.
What precisely does this have to do with packaged media -- i.e. store-bought movie discs? Nothing I can think of. You already have them, permanently.
Fair use extended to HD.
Again, what does this mean? The fair use doctrine doesn't care about source quality. As for being able to do what you want, easily, nobody guaranteed that, and anyway it's probably just a matter of time -- as it was with DVD.
Quote:
No invasive firmware.
Not sure what you're afraid of, but if it would make you happy to have it implemented as hardware instead, hard-coded into a chip, so be it. Posted Image
Quote:
No HDMI.
I'm not fond of HDCP, and there seem to be some serious implementation issues, but HDMI is actually a pretty good idea -- get rid of that snake's nest of cabling [three for component video, six for DVD-A and SACD, another one for digital audio...].

#33 of 98 Mark Zimmer

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Posted January 20 2006 - 10:32 AM

The more I read about these formats the more I'm convinced there's no way they could convince me TO buy into them. The studios have done their best to utterly cripple these formats from the beginning, and they've succeeded as far as I'm concerned.

#34 of 98 Brian-W

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Posted January 20 2006 - 11:50 AM

Absolutely nothing - I'm a whore who needs his HD Posted Image
* No longer looking for Hi-Vision Laserdiscs *
(I buried that format)

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#35 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 30 2006 - 07:20 AM

Posted Image

I was going to say something similar but you beat me to it!

c'mon you big 1080P daddy...slap me!!! Call me a high-res bitch!

Posted Image
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#36 of 98 FrancisP

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Posted January 31 2006 - 05:06 AM

Quote:
What precisely does this have to do with packaged media -- i.e. store-bought movie discs? Nothing I can think of. You already have them, permanently.

Some of this has nothing to do with packaged media. I am a movie fan. In addition to my packaged movies, I also have a number of movie titles like Boys' Night Out, a extended cut of Midway, and even the roadshow version of The Alamo that are not available on packaged media.

These are under assault or soon could be. One of the developers of one of BR's protection schemes supports HD players shutting down over recorded material. The bill to plug the so-called analog hole has a provision that could limit time-shifting to 90 minutes. These could allow
studios to technologically roll back the fair use provisions that exist today. I am worried about a scenario where I go to play Midway and the HD player either shuts down permanently or will not play because it determines I am playing copyrighted material. I would rather see SD win rather than risk this.

Quote:
if it would make you happy to have it implemented as hardware instead, hard-coded into a chip, so be it.
I don't want this as firmware, software, or hardware. This
firmware could be the key to implementing many of Hollywood's schemes. Right now it will keep track of everything you watch and could download it without you knowing if you get their great extras online. It could also recognize broadcast flags that could limit or end your fair use rights. It could also be used to enforce any divyx-like scheme. It could shut down HD players with some arbitrary standard. That is invasive.

Quote:
HDMI is actually a pretty good idea
It may be more convenient for you but it is also easier for the studios to control. That's why the studios want consumers to use HDMI. That's why I refuse to use HDMI even if I had HDMI connections on my tv.

#37 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 31 2006 - 06:04 AM

Quote:
It may be more convenient for you but it is also easier for the studios to control. That's why the studios want consumers to use HDMI. That's why I refuse to use HDMI even if I had HDMI connections on my tv.

How big is your TV?

No doubt about it...on a big screen (like a 100" projection system) HDMI/DVI is the only way to go if you've got a digital display device to get the ultimate in picture quality. While I don't like the idea of 'draconian' copy measures any more than the next consumer, I'm not about to pass up a pristine all-digital 1080P picture to prove the point...

Posted Image
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#38 of 98 Manus

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Posted January 31 2006 - 06:48 AM

"The more I read about these formats the more I'm convinced there's no way they could convince me TO buy into them. The studios have done their best to utterly cripple these formats from the beginning, and they've succeeded as far as I'm concerned".

I'm with you. These formats gave been designed exclusively with the Studios in mind.Not the consumer.For the studios ,by the studios .
I'm not whoring for any of them Posted Image

~M~
I have just two words to say to you..... Shut the f*** up !

#39 of 98 FrancisP

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Posted January 31 2006 - 07:10 AM

Quote:
I'm not about to pass up a pristine all-digital 1080P picture to prove the point...


There is actually more than a point to be made here. If the choice is potentially losing my recorded material, most of which will likely never make it to dvd, or pristine pictures then 1080P loses. If fair use was extended to HD and studios were forced to honor it in their copy protection schemes then that would allay my fears. If the invasive firmware weren't so invasive then it would allay my fears.

To accept HD in its current form would be the equivalent of putting a kick me sign on your back and just let the studios run over you.

#40 of 98 DaViD Boulet

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Posted January 31 2006 - 07:21 AM

I've made it this far without ever needing to copy one of my pre-recorded DVDs. I can probably survive not needing to copy the pre-recorded HD material that I buy as well.

Managed Copy should (fingers crossed) allow HTPC users to perform their aspect ratio control with HD media and scaling manipulation and push those HD pictures to other displays hooked up to their network. If in practice those functions are not permitted via managed copy then I would understand why some users would find the "copy protection" of HD media restrictive.




Quote:
If the choice is potentially losing my recorded material, most of which will likely never make it to dvd, or pristine pictures then 1080P loses.

What are you talking about? How does the copy measures applied to pre-recorded HD media affect your ability to continue to copy the standard-definition video that you currently record? What do the two things have to with each other?
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