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$2150 SVS PB-12 ULTRA /2 vs $950 HSU VTF-3HO: First Hand at CES: Guess What!


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#1 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 09 2006 - 11:51 AM

Hold on to your (cash?!), first hand report after demos of both at CES:
"...at 16Hz the ($2150) SVS PB-12 Ultra/2 put out a bit more SPL sustained than the ($950)HSU VTF-3HO + Turbo. However, the overall accuracy of the HSU with regards to overhang and decay times of the higher frequencies gives my nod to the HSU VTF-3HO."

One of each sub was used.

At the $950 pre-order price (saving as much as $250), the HSU VTF-3HO + Turbo appears to be a monster performer with finess. You should have until January 31, 2006 to put in your pre-order.

First shipments will go out in the next 2 weeks or so. There are several who will do extensive testing over on AVS. If you pre-order now, you will have time to read the first tests before you have to make your final decision since the first shipment is sold out and the second shipment won't go out until mid February, or later.

#2 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 09 2006 - 12:05 PM

And furthermore, dual HSU VTF-3HO's plus Turbos at $1,900 delivered (pre-order), should just crush the SVS PB-12 Ultra/2 at $2150, delivered.

#3 of 27 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted January 09 2006 - 01:35 PM

Quote:
However, the overall accuracy of the HSU with regards to overhang and decay times of the higher frequencies gives my nod to the HSU VTF-3HO."


"It is not possible to legitimately compare two different subs in two different rooms for perceived overhang - way too many variables." -Ed Mullen

"I heard the ultra/2 first. Despite knowing what to expect-- the demo STILL left me shaken. If there was one spec of dirt on my pants it got knocked to the floor on the first cannon shot!" -Rysa4 at AVS (same guy Arthur quoted)

"The SVS PB Ultra/2 was really something. I am telling you that the strength of the reproduction really did resonate my freakin pant legs. And even though I own this DVD and have a couple of Rocket UFW-10 subs, I really was shaken a bit. Really. Wow." -Rysa4 at AVS
"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
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Updated Equipment List

#4 of 27 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted January 09 2006 - 05:11 PM

Here is the entire thread instead of just excerpts:

http://www.avsforum....ad.php?t=626888

As for comparing in different rooms...remember, this was at a hotel, both companies had similar suites and similar rooms. Now for electronics, Hsu tries to prove a point and uses VERY inexpensive pieces ($100 Sherwood receiver) to prove that quality sound does not need to be expensive.
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#5 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 09 2006 - 10:55 PM

I own an SVS, so I appreciate value when I see (hear?) it. Point is, at $950 pre-order price, the HSU VTF-3 HO + Turbo is shaping up as a very fine value, in a smaller, lighter box. It is flexible, as the Turbo can be used or not used. If you don't like the Turbo piece you can sell it, and once again, with pre-orders being taken through January, you have nothing to lose by pre-ordering. HSU will call you when your unit is ready some time in February and ask you if you want to go ahead with the order or not.

Competition is a good thing, as are clever engineers.

#6 of 27 OFFLINE   Justin*Smith

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Posted January 10 2006 - 06:44 AM

Anyone have a link to the preorder website?
"I was checking the specs on the end line for
the roto-girter. Er, I'm an idiot."

#7 of 27 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted January 10 2006 - 07:54 AM

Quote:
I appreciate value when I see (hear?) it.


But Arthur, you haven't even heard the sub that you are so actively promoting pre-orders for. Posted Image
"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
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#8 of 27 OFFLINE   CurtisSC

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Posted January 10 2006 - 08:13 AM

Quote:
Anyone have a link to the preorder website?
http://www.hsuresear...read.php?t=1763
curtis
Manhattan Beach, California

#9 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 10 2006 - 08:56 AM

Alan

Just out of curiousity, did you hear the PB-10 before you bought it Posted Image ?

And furthermore Posted Image, How many SVS owners heard an SVS before they bought one?Posted Image

#10 of 27 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted January 10 2006 - 09:06 AM

Nope, but I also didn't start three threads in the course of several days going on about preorders and such as though I were a representative of SVS. Your first thread was odd enough (even an Hsu sub owner said you sounded like some salesman), but it's starting to become a bit obnoxious, IMO.
"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
-Dustin Hoffman as 'Bernie Focker'

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#11 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 10 2006 - 09:10 AM

Geez Alan, I would have never commented on your posts about Maggies....

So how bout playing nice? After all, no bickering before the trip to CES next yearPosted Image .

#12 of 27 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted January 10 2006 - 09:14 AM

If I was going around starting threads about Maggies as you are about Hsu, I'm sure that someone would have commented, my friend. I've said my peace, though, so I'll leave it be.
"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
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#13 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 10 2006 - 09:23 AM

Peace it is Posted Image

#14 of 27 OFFLINE   Justin*Smith

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Posted January 10 2006 - 09:27 AM

I realize that looks shouldn't be a major concern when comparing subwoofers, but that turbo is really ugly. I say that because my subwoofer will be in the open, and I don't think that is very pleasing to look at. I'd love to hear it and would probably dig the output 100%.
"I was checking the specs on the end line for
the roto-girter. Er, I'm an idiot."

#15 of 27 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted January 12 2006 - 10:53 PM

The Audioholics review of the '3HO at CES is up.

"The two big subwoofers sound spectacular as they shook the entire suite with ultra low subsonic sound. We were able to hear the subwoofers shaking the room all the way out on the sidewalk! The large subwoofers appear to have excellent build quality."

For the entire review, go here:

http://www.audioholi..../HSUVTF3HO.php

#16 of 27 OFFLINE   Chris Quinn

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Posted January 13 2006 - 03:39 AM

I realize that looks shouldn't be a major concern when comparing subwoofers, but that turbo is really ugly. I say that because my subwoofer will be in the open, and I don't think that is very pleasing to look at. I'd love to hear it and would probably dig the output 100%.


The turbo only increases volume not how low it goes.

#17 of 27 OFFLINE   rob-h

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Posted January 13 2006 - 05:15 AM

Arthur S has started a lot more then 3 threads regarding this!! It seems like I see a new one from him on this every week!

#18 of 27 OFFLINE   Lee-c

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Posted January 16 2006 - 09:37 AM

I want to see measurements from someone who has tested both subs in the same room (or at
least the PB2-Plus), fully calibrated, etc. before we get too involved with subjective impressions.
We've seen this so many times before; and when tested in the same room with SPL mic's
the SVS always goes deeper, louder and cleaner with less distortion than anything
of comparable cost.

So lets see some serious numbers before we jump to conclusions. Posted Image

#19 of 27 OFFLINE   Peter Marcks

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Posted January 16 2006 - 01:15 PM

Please use some caution when talking simply about "distortion", as distortion can take various forms. We try to achieve a good balance of low dynamic distortion, low inter-modulation distortion, and low harmonic distortion.

In a vented subwoofer, extension is largely related to port tuning. One way to lower the tuning (and lower the frequency response) in commercial products in the past was to plug a port. Reducing port cross-sectional area while maintaining a given port length resulted in a lower port tune. The 'turbocharger' is another means of variable tuning where one is able to lower the port tuning without reducing maximum available port cross-sectional area, simply by extending the length of the porting. This is much preferrable from a performance standpoint, since port cross-sectional area is not reduced by 33-50% for each lower tune.

Designing a ported subwoofer to go very low is fairly easy. Designing a ported subwoofer to go very low while at the same time have very formidable port flow capability and maintain a commercially-viable enclosure size and weight is not so easy. Technologies like 'turbocharger' allow us to provide very clean and loud low bass all the way down to 16Hz and below while keeping the base enclosure size fairly reasonable.

Cheers
Peter Marcks
Hsu Research

#20 of 27 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted January 16 2006 - 02:38 PM

I'll wait for a guy like Ed Mullen to dissect it and do a full review. I don't trust Audioholics one bit. And even then I bet a couple of the well known bashers will show up to claim Ed's bias and flame him for it.





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