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Pioneer CLD-E2000 laserdisc player


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 jim.vaccaro

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Posted December 08 2005 - 09:11 PM

Calling all lasergurus! I see these on ebay all the time, new in box for just north of $100.

Understand this is an education-oriented LD player, without any digital audio out, DNR, etc...but I'm wondering how the video quality is. Would it be a decent backup player? Since they're being sold brand new, it's got me thinking.

I already own a CLD-D704 and CLD-D703, how would the CLD-E2000 stack up?

#2 of 36 Philip Hamm

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Posted December 09 2005 - 01:33 AM

The Pioneer CLD-E2000 looks to be based on the same platform as the venerable CLD-S201 player. I used to have a CLD-S201. Damn good player. Not on par with your CLD-D704/703, but not a big step down either. The E2000 has neato stuff like digital field memory for CLV and a kick-ass remote control. If I were looking for another backup (I could use one), this would be near the top of my list.
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#3 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 02:07 AM

No digital audio out? Dang, I'd like to retire my current player to backup status and get something better at some point.


I'm still not to hip on what player I should be looking at and what is considered a good price point to pay for it.

#4 of 36 ChristopherDAC

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Posted December 09 2005 - 02:15 AM

What do you have now, John? As far as I am concerned, the thing to go for is a Pioneer CLD-D704, or its equivalent the Mitsubishi M-V7057. I have one of each, one bought off eBay and one bought from Mr. Kurtis Bahr [for a cheaper price!], and I'm very happy with them. They have all the features of any American consumer player: double-side play, optical and coaxial digital outputs, AC-3 RF output, variable noise reduction [if you feel the need], the miniature CD tray [which I use more than I ever expected], digital memory, and a headphone jack. The comb filter for the S-Video output is a decent 2-D unit, but to get better than that you would be looking at an Elite CLD-99 or one of the high-end Japanese players. Frankly, to get markedly better performance than the D704 you would be looking at a Japanese MUSE player such as the HLD-X9, which costs fifteen or twenty times as much.

#5 of 36 jim.vaccaro

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Posted December 09 2005 - 02:47 AM

Well, I picked up a LD-V8000 for $46 shipped on ebay just now. Posted Image

I've read that the V8000 is the "sleeper" bang-for-the buck LD player in the composite video quality department, rivaling the quality of the LD-S2. No dual side play, and no digital output, so we'll see how good the onboard DACs are. I'll probably just play with it for little while and then sell it again...or not, who knows.

#6 of 36 greg_t

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Posted December 09 2005 - 03:31 AM

I would agree that for most users the 704 is a great player to get, and can be still had at a good price and parts are still available for it. It was Pioneer's best non-elite player and is actually the same player video wise as the Elite CLD-79, and the 79 is a very good player. In addition to Kurtis Bahr, I highly recommend Duncan Hunter from www.laserdiscservice.com He is probably the top LD guy in the US. He sells refurbished players and he is the first place I would go to for a player. Buying on ebay is tricky because you don't know what you might get. Buying from Duncan or Kurtis you know you're going to get a quality product.

#7 of 36 ChristopherDAC

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Posted December 09 2005 - 03:38 AM

The 8000 is a spectacular item, but it's not a consumer product, so its feature set is something completely different. It does all sorts of fascinating things, particularly with computer connexion -- it has full-field store, and so can due a true full-resolution freeze frame off a CLV disc; when it first spins up it maps all the codes [chapter stops, picture stops, time code, side end] on the disc, and so can do an almost instantaneous seek to anything on the disc; it's even capable of playing every fourth frame, and one out of the four audio tracks, so as to get four separate -- if somewhat jerky -- programmes on the same disc, with on-the-fly switching. It's just not designed to "play nice" with Home Theatre equipment. The same comment goes for the "mega-changers", which when you are talking about something which holds 72 LDs [and I have heard rumours of 300], really are "mega".

#8 of 36 jim.vaccaro

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Posted December 09 2005 - 03:42 AM

It's just not designed to "play nice" with Home Theatre equipment.


Well, I realize it's an industrial player, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. What does it really need to do other than playback laserdiscs with good A/V quality?

#9 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 03:55 AM

Denon LA-3200 rightnow. My current backup is a Mitsu Industrial player.

I need the best Svideo output... Maybe not in the future, but right now, I do.....

Of course digital output and AC-3 is needed as well.

my Philips display has got to have to worst 3 line digital comb filter ever made in it.


I can't feed it composite anything, looks bad.

#10 of 36 ChristopherDAC

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Posted December 09 2005 - 05:43 AM

John S puts his finger on one of the issues.

Basically, many people don't have systems which are any too careful with composite video input, since the default assumption today is that it's coming from a low-quality source. Add to that single-side playback; the lack of passthrough for digital signals, which disqualifies it from dts playback; the lack [I'm pretty sure] of an RF output for AC-3; the point that most HT recievers these days do Dolby Surround processing mcuh better from a digital-audio input than an analog stereo-pair input; and the lack of CD compatibility [not just a convenience feature -- I have several CDVs, LD singles pressed on CD blanks, and nothing but an LD machine will play the video parts]; and you can see that it doesn't mesh well with the average setup these days.

It's a great machine, but it was designed with certain assumptions about the end-user's capabilities and likely courses of action which just don't hold outside the industrial sphere. It's probably worth the effort to fit what you have to its needs, if you already have a system set up for LD, bu it wouldn't be my first choice as a general-purpose entertainment player.

Oh, and John: The D704's S-Video output is quite decent. You could get a better S-Video quality from an Elite CLD-D99, an S9, or an X9, but you'd be spending much much more -- it would probably be cheaper to buy an outboard comb filter! Thing is, though, looking at the LaserDisc Archive's listing for the LA-3100, it looks like it could be a clone of the Pioneer D703, except for the lack of the coax digital output and separate CD tray. Their photograph shows an AC-3 RF output, but the logo's not on the front panel and it looks like an aftermarket job.
If you can describe what features the 3200 has [the archive doesn't have a listing for that one], and what it does/doesn't do that you like/don't like, maybe we can put our heads together and come up with a suggestion for you.


#11 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 05:54 AM

I actually like the player very much... I don't like my backup player all to much. The video performance seems good with my current display. (The best looking titles look a lot better than the worst DVD titles anyways)

The AC-3 on mine was added by somebody before I got it. It works, teh optical passes DTS perfectly, the svideo seems decent.


I have a 1000 LD title collection, so my thinking is if I can can better, I should do it. Analog / Digital / AC-3 are must have. The Svideo performance would be of the highest consideration.


It does not sound like I can do all to much better on the svideo side without spending how much??? It sounds like I would have to spend a lot to best my current svideo performance right?

Heck, I like it enough, I'd consider just purchasing a second one. This player has been solid, no problems in 7 years with it. A gazillion hours of use.

#12 of 36 ChristopherDAC

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Posted December 09 2005 - 06:22 AM

Then I bet it is a 704 or a 704 clone. As mentioned, Kurtis Bahr or Duncan Hunter [I've not dealt with him] would seem to be your best sources for another one; the Mitsubishi unit cost me $250, which I think a very fair price.
A CLD-99 would probably be at least twice that, and an S9 would probably run upwards of $1000 [Josh Zyber's unit sold on eBay for $1,327.02 a couple of weeks back]. X9s depend on condition; if you're looking to import one, Nick Santini wants between $2500 and $5000 -- the latter for new-in-box, but he's sold his last one. You might be able to find it cheaper elsewhere, occasionally one shows up in the domestic market, but Santini is very good about the condition of his merchandise.


#13 of 36 greg_t

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Posted December 09 2005 - 06:23 AM

If you really want the best S-video out from a laserdisc player you are talking about the X9. Remember though that better S-video is not the only benefit of the X9. It has a completely different and better design the players like the cld79, 99, 97, and S9.

The X9 has a 3D motion adaptive filter that was still in use with last years Pioneer Elite HDTV's and is also supposedly still in use in the Mits Diamond sets. However, the elites implementation is not as good as it is in the X9. I have both an Elite set and an X9.

The Elite has a 3D YC setting that gives you an adjustment in the range of 1 to 5. As you move up, you increase the amount of 3D processing done on the signal. That is the extent of the comb filter adjustments on the Elite.

On the X9, there are 3 seperate algorithims called Standard, Sports, and Art. Standard is for regular viewing, sports is for fast moving material, and Art is for material with mostly static images. Once you have selected on of these presets, you can go into it and set the 3D comb filter to the Normal, C-Wide, or HR positions. Normal is again suitable for normal viewing, C-Wide I think sets the filter for more fast moving objects, and HR increases the 3D processing to Max 3D and actually sharpens the picture, but it can really only be used on material that is slow or mostly static. You will see dot disturbance if the material is too fast due to the amount of 3D processing involved.

Once you've select Normal, C-wide, or HR, you can set the level of 3D processing on an eight point scale, 1 being no 3D processing and only 2D, and eight being full 3D processing. HR modes locks out this function though as it already sets 3D processing to MAX. You can also set the levels of 3D noise reduction on a eight point scale, and this can be done seperatley on both the chroma and luminance signals.

Like Chris said, it's very expensive but other than the HLD-X0, it's the best and it has better S-video output than the X9. I've read that the X0 gives better composite output with less noise, but I don't have any problems with noise on my X9 as it is. The X0 is also 80lbs and a single side only player where the X9 is 40 and plays both sides. Both can play LD only, no CD. Both have 20 bit Burr Brown DACS, and seperate power supplys for the analog and digital sections. Both also use a narrorwer bandwidth red laser that gives a better read on discs. Also, since they don't play CD's, the disc clamp is optmized for lasers.

I have an X9 and an Elite CLD 79, and the 79 doesn't compare to the X9, but be ready to invest if you really want one. I bought mine from Nicolas and paid 2500. I also had him take it to Pioneer Tokoyo and fit it with a new laser head, spindle motor, belts, etc. Combine the cost of the player, service, and shipping from Tokoyo and you're talking a good piece of money. You can watch ebay as some from the US occasionly go up for sale, but not often. The last one on ebay went for 3500 and claimed to have never been used.

#14 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 07:42 AM

greg_t, your the best for all that information....


HLD-X9, and an LD-S9 on ebay, The S9 has only a buy now $2300 on it, the X9 has a starting bid of $2000 with $220 shipping from Hong Kong.

There is a CLD-99 that looks like it could be had for well under $500 stated as in absolutely mint condition.




I just don't think I can justify the X9/S9 sort of cost given my current satisfaction with my existing player.



So does a CLD-99 have better Svideo performance than my current player or about the same?


I think I am going to bid on the thing. Posted Image

Thanks again for all the information, and any about the CLD-99 svideo quality that may follow.

#15 of 36 Philip Hamm

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Posted December 09 2005 - 07:52 AM

Quote:
I have a 1000 LD title collection, so my thinking is if I can can better, I should do it. Analog / Digital / AC-3 are must have. The Svideo performance would be of the highest consideration
WTF? Why would you give a hoot about S-Video performance under any circumstance? You're limiting yourself to positively antiquated Y/C separation technology. Back in the day this meant something. Now you should just want a high video s/n on the raw composite output with no processing. Let the newer more modern stuff do the processing.

ooops - edit - I did not read
Quote:
my Philips display has got to have to worst 3 line digital comb filter ever made in it.
Doh! A CLD-99 is a good player for you! Fantastic S-Video performance. It was always the best with my Mitsubishi NTSC bigscreen. When I replaced that with an X1 I sold the 99. The 704 is just as good for me now.
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#16 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 07:54 AM

OK.. I did some checking on the CLD-99, man it sounds like an amazing upgrade from my current player.



I am definetly going to try to get it for $400 or less.


Pioneer still fully services that player correct????

#17 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 07:56 AM

I seen your edit Philip....


I think I am going to bid on the CLD-99, sounds like an amazing player when I put it into google.

#18 of 36 Rachael B

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Posted December 09 2005 - 09:25 AM

John, the CLD-99's comb would benefit you with your current TV. If you had a TV with a really good 3-D comb filter, you'd proably want to use the 99's composite. It's hard to tell folks to pay mas dinero for the 99 when the 704/79's composite is just as good. It's a cryin' shame that the 99 didn't get the better comb filter that's in the LD-S9 and HLD-X9!
Rachael, the big disc cat is in real life Dot Mongur, Champion of the International Pacman Federation. You better be ready to rumble if you play Jr. Pacman with me. This is full contact Pacman and I don't just play the game, I operate it!


#19 of 36 John S

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Posted December 09 2005 - 09:43 AM

Well I am told my Denon doesn't have a very good comb filter and it's svideo is way better than it's composite on my particular display.

I think the 99 will suite my needs well enough.

So basically if you ever see one of these upper players X9 / S9 in a pawn shop. Lie through your teeth and try to get either for $1k or under? Posted Image

#20 of 36 greg_t

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Posted December 09 2005 - 10:07 AM

Pioneer still makes parts for the cld-99. It has a first generation 3D comb filter. It's a good one, not as good as the X9's, but still good. The 99 and 79 are the same player except that the 99 has the 3D filter where th 79 has a 3 line digital 2D. If your TV has a 3D comb filter already, the 99's may not be much better.

For service, Duncan Hunter is the man.





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