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War of the Worlds damaged my SVS!


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64 replies to this topic

#1 of 65 OFFLINE   Dan_J_H.

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Posted November 30 2005 - 01:08 PM

After playing the powerful bass scenes a few times in the War of the Worlds DVD, my SVS pb12/Plus2 sub has a rattling sound in one of the drivers.

I’m using a new Pioneer Elite VSX-74TXVi receiver. After using the receiver’s automatic MCACC setup, my sub sounded MUCH more powerful and better than it ever did.

Here are what the settings were when my sub’s driver got damaged: I have one port plug in the sub, the gain was a little more than ¼ up from min, the subsonic filter 20Hz, phase at zero, the channel level set by MCACC is -8.5db and the receiver volume was -8.0db.

I am wondering if I have a defective driver or did I push the sub too hard? After hearing how awesome my sub can sound, I’m addicted now and will never look back.

I would like to know how to prevent my sub from being overloaded in the future. From what I have read, it seems getting a BFD would be a good idea.

I can’t wait to get this thing fixed! I have emailed SVS already
For progress pictures of my HT click on the link.

http://community.web...om/user/danjh38

#2 of 65 OFFLINE   Greg-ST

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Posted November 30 2005 - 02:29 PM

Man, I feel sorry for people with highend subs that wind up damaging them during punishing movies/music/etc. I have the relatively "lowly" Dayton Tiny Mighty II and it handled War of the Worlds gloriously (yes, the DTS track). Quite impressive actually. I'm running the bass slightly hot too.

Anyway, good luck with getting it fixed. I guess in the future you can dial down the bass a bit.

#3 of 65 OFFLINE   Tom Vodhanel

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Posted November 30 2005 - 02:42 PM

Hi Dan,

We'll get this fixed asap, don't worry..Posted Image

After you let the Pioneer auto-calibrate it(once the subwoofer is at 100% again)...please double check the bass levels with a SPL meter and a good setup disc like Avia. Some auto-setup routines can be a bit unpredictable at times.

Please email me at techsupport@svsound.com and we'll get this taken care of for you immediately.

Tom V.
SVSound

#4 of 65 OFFLINE   Jan H

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Posted November 30 2005 - 04:00 PM

SVS treats people right. I'm sure Tom & Co. will get you up and running in no time. Good Luck!

#5 of 65 OFFLINE   MikeyWeitz

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Posted December 01 2005 - 05:12 AM

That's because the Dayton can not reproduce much of the bass on that track Posted Image.

Can't be damaged if it can not reproduce the sounds which can damage it if overdone.

#6 of 65 OFFLINE   Philip_G

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Posted December 01 2005 - 10:19 AM

that track is NASTY. I watched it on my bedroom system but haven't thrown it at my DIY shiva yet.
I had to switch it over to DD on the bedroom system though.

#7 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted December 01 2005 - 10:25 AM

Dan, just out of curiosity: when the MCACC system was setting the various speaker parameters, was the volume level at that time set at the same level you watched War Of The Worlds, or at a lower level?

#8 of 65 OFFLINE   JeffLab

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Posted December 01 2005 - 10:52 AM

Lance, the MCACC setup on the Pioneer receivers always sets the tones at 0.0db. He had the main volume set at -8.0db.

#9 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted December 01 2005 - 11:36 AM

Thanks Jeff. So umm, are you saying the main volume is automatically set by the MCACC system at 0.0dB, then it plays the test tones?

I have a specific reason for asking about this, but my little theory is only half-baked at this point. Posted Image

#10 of 65 OFFLINE   JeffLab

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Posted December 01 2005 - 12:33 PM

Hi Lance. Yes, the first step the MCACC does in its auto test procedure, is it raises the volume control to 0.0db. It then procedes to play the various test tones to all available channels at 0.0db, using that as a benchmark reference for any adjustments it may make.

#11 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted December 01 2005 - 01:57 PM

(excuse my ignorance but I've never used the MCACC system before) Based on most other receivers using "0" as their highest volume level or at least very nearly so, wouldn't such a level skew the settings when the user listened at a lower level? I am referring to something I've brought up here before: the Fletcher-Munson Curve.

I realize Dan's situation is not exactly the same as what is described below, but now that this has been brought up.......

I see many people here admit, almost with a guilty tone, that while they dutifully used a set-up disc to calibrate their system using reference level, they still end up running their subs a little "hot". But since ref level is quite loud for many people including myself, I am assuming they don't *always* listen at that level, especially apartment dwellers and people with families.

So to me, the existance of the "hot" issue is perfectly consistant with setting channel levels at an initial level where the ear is more responsive. But when that level is lowered (nightime; cranky neighbor, etc) the average human ear is not as responsive and of course, the bass (and treble too) seem to be weak. Hence, the correct decision to bump up the sub so it CAN be heard properly.

On a side note: it really bugs me that the majority of receiver manufacturers have deleted loudness circuits from their gear. They were very useful IMO because these circuits automatically compensated for the ear's natural tendencies, and for the most part, your system sounded the same at all levels (the better ones would reduce their effect as the volume was increased, finally removing themselves-electrically speaking-from the signal at a predetermined level. My $240 Pioneer SX-6 from 1983 does this). Why manufacturers stopped providing them after decades of including them is a mystery (though I suspect that complaints from audio purists that they add a minute amount of distortion may be one reason Posted Image ).

More evidence of people's inability to hear lower bass and higher treble at low levels is the very common sight of bass/treble knobs twisted to their MAX settings on systems with no loudness buttons. I find it hard to believe every man, woman, child, etc loves pounding bass and shrieking highs.

Any thoughts on this issue?

#12 of 65 OFFLINE   Greg-ST

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Posted December 01 2005 - 02:57 PM

Quote:
That's because the Dayton can not reproduce much of the bass on that track .

Can't be damaged if it can not reproduce the sounds which can damage it if overdone.
Actually the Dayton has useable output to 25Hz. Going by the waterfall charts in the other thread it covers the majority of the bass on the soundtrack (and the biggest hits seem to be right at 30Hz). There were numerous areas in the track when it was difficult to hear the bass but I could easily feel it. It's pretty impressive actually (especially considering the sub in question).

I wouldn't have any problems damaging the sub if I wanted to. I don't have it cranked to that point, however. It's just rather unfortunate that some people with highend subs tend to be a bit overzealous with the bass levels, and when that one soundtrack comes along with punishing bass... BOOM, they damaged their sub in some way.

It's nice to see that SVS takes great care of their customers though Posted Image I see a PB10 in my future Posted Image

#13 of 65 OFFLINE   MikeyWeitz

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Posted December 01 2005 - 09:52 PM

I had the dayton 10 before getting a 16-46pc+. I know what it can do.

Trust me, you missed quite a bit of the sub 25hz bass (and their is plenty).

Dayton can't be beat for the $$ tho, no doubt about it.

#14 of 65 OFFLINE   BrianWoerndle

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Posted December 02 2005 - 01:12 AM

Quote:
Man, I feel sorry for people with highend subs that wind up damaging them during punishing movies/music/etc. I have the relatively "lowly" Dayton Tiny Mighty II and it handled War of the Worlds gloriously (yes, the DTS track). Quite impressive actually. I'm running the bass slightly hot too.


Almost all cheap subs have subsonic filtering so that they don't tear themselves apart trying to go too low. Even the SVS has a subsonic filter, but starting at 20hz then rolling off still leaves a lot of deep bass to reproduce.

I have dual 16-46CS+ passive subs. So I have absolutly no subsonic filtering. Those babys will try anything I throw at them. I get flat response down to 13hz. Luckily in my small room, they have never let me down.
The only way to safely double your money is to fold it over once and place it back in your pocket.

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#15 of 65 OFFLINE   Greg-ST

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Posted December 02 2005 - 05:04 AM

Quote:
Trust me, you missed quite a bit of the sub 25hz bass (and their is plenty).
Sure there's plenty. However, it's not anywhere near the majority of the bass.

I'm really not trying to compare my "lowend" sub to SVS subs. It's just that I see more people damaging their highend subs than I do people with lower-end subs. I guess the performance gets to their head a little too much Posted Image Believe me, I wouldn't have any problems damaging my sub if I was running it too hot.

#16 of 65 OFFLINE   Matt Lagana

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Posted December 02 2005 - 05:44 AM

My equip list:

HK AVR 235
JBL E-80 (L/R)
Polk CS1 (center)
Polk R-20 (surround)
Dayton Quatro 15"/240 watt Diy....5.6 cu.ft. ported/tuned at 18hz (+2 on reciever/12 oclock on amp)

I just re-watched War of the Worlds at -10. My sub ate it up...It had no problems with the movie..My house didnt like it very much, but I was very impressed...I've been thinking about selling it to a friend and gettind an SVS...This thread and the one over at AVS is making me think twice....

Matt

#17 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted December 02 2005 - 09:02 AM

Ah come on, someone must have an opinion on what I wrote about. I'm not into the politically-correct thing so go for it!



Quote:
5.6 cu.ft............
Damn Matt, you must either be a bachelor or have a very understanding wife!Posted Image

#18 of 65 OFFLINE   Rory Buszka

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Posted December 02 2005 - 09:14 AM

It's amazing what you can do when you DIY. Another interesting example of what it's possible to do with a DIY project is the AE Speakers AV15 woofer in an 8.8 c.f. sonotube tuned to 17 Hz. You can build one with 500 watts for less than $500. It theoretically will outpace an SVS 16-46 PC-Plus, yet you can't even get a 25-31 PCi for that. The SVS line does bring you something like a top-quality DIY project (by someone who knows how to build and finish enclosures well) but there are still reasons, like the combo I just mentioned, to give DIY a shot.

More on that: http://www.aespeaker...topic.php?t=365
"It sounds like it's barfing out the bass." - Zach

#19 of 65 OFFLINE   Matt Lagana

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Posted December 02 2005 - 09:27 AM

Quote:
Damn Matt, you must either be a bachelor or have a very understanding wife!


What's the big deal??? If I want a 30 cu. ft. sub, she (my fiance) could care less. It's just a big black box. If it makes me happy, so be it...She did have her fingers in her ears when we watched WOTW together. I played it at -28..She actually hates bass. Every system I have ever had sounds the same to her. In responce to youe initial post, it's above my head!!!

Matt

#20 of 65 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted December 02 2005 - 10:12 AM

Quote:
What's the big deal???
Er, nothing. Posted Image

I wasn't accusing you of anything, it's just that based on selling subs for three years to a wide array of people and friends/family comments, such a large enclosure in their living room for some people is a *decorating* no-no. Read on.......

I'm a bachelor myself & being only semi-employed right now, my own "subwoofer" for now consists of two old Realistic bookshelf speakers (ported 2-ways with 8" woofers) bought at a resale shop, placed side-by-side & powered by my trusty Pioneer SX-6 receiver (45 watts/channel, 20Hz-20kHz, @.01% THD). Trust me, this hodge-podge of stuff ain't a pretty sight but it sounds quite good (the speakers are real walnut veneer but they use those old-skool "lace"* grills with brown cloth behind them-they definitely don't match my cherry Bostons with their black perforated metal grills or oak Infinity center channel with black cloth grill).

Also, I get to place my rear speakers (solid black Pioneer 3-way/8" bookshelves) between my couch and rear wall for best sound for surround music (and movies too, IMO)-i.e. pretty much standing in the way of normal foot traffic-and I'm sure from HGTV's point of view this looks really icky. Posted Image

* nearly identical to these Pioneers


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