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Sony's CineMotion


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#1 of 8 OFFLINE   John DeSantis

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Posted October 12 2005 - 11:11 PM

Recently purchased a sony 60" LCD RP set. KDFE60A20. I'm trying to figure out just what some of it's features actually do to improve PQ. For instance the CineMotion feature is supposed to improve the PQ but I don't seem to see any difference.
with DVD or Cable.

Sony says "Select Cine Motion to optimize the screen display automatically detecting film content and applying a reverse 3-2 pull down process" Does this mean it's for DVD that isn't played with Progressive scan?

Also see that since I got my Motorola DCT 6400 the non HD channels look worse. After doing a little searching It seems that using the DCT PVR Models actually distort non HD signals. It's because in order to keep the PVR function the signals have to be converted to Digital which results in "fuzziness" ( their description ) Read more here:

http://broadband.mot...r/analogFAQ.asp

I'm really unhappy with the PQ. I just might dump the PVR Box and just get a plain HD capable Box.

Wondering how many have seen this problem. Motorola acknowledges that this is a problem.
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#2 of 8 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted October 13 2005 - 05:05 AM

It is for de-interlacing / creating progressive scan for 480i film based sources...

Laserdisc
VCR
DVD

Probably some others as well I am not thinking of.

Converting to digital or scaling does highlight the flaws in NTSC. No doubt about it.

I have an upconverting DVD player, and poor transfers look worse for sure beign upconverted. Good thing poor transfers on DVD's in the exception, not the rule. Posted Image

#3 of 8 OFFLINE   John DeSantis

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Posted October 13 2005 - 05:33 AM

But are Cable channel signals that are 480i considered "film based sources?

Sony describes the processing as follow:

"WEGA Engine™ System Delivers superb picture quality from any video source by minimizing the signal deterioration caused by digital-to-analog conversion and stabilizing the signal processing. The engine features unique Sony technology, including:The first step in the digital processing system, Composite Component Processor2, which enhances input signal-to-noise ratio by chroma decoder digital processing.

Digital Reality Creation® (DRC) Multifunction Unlike conventional line doublers, the DRC Multifunction feature replaces the signal's NTSC waveform with the HD equivalent, while doubling the number of vertical and horizontal lines. This results in four times the density for quality sources, such as DVD, satellite and digital camcorders. The Video Menu allows you to select interlaced, progressive or CineMotion™ output"

Just looking at the last line above seems to indicate using either CineMotion or the DRC function. You can turn off CineMotion but the DRC setting is either HIGH DENSITY for "moving Pictures" or PROGRESSIVE "for text and Still images" Can't really turn that off.

So..you can have/use CineMotion along with one of the DRC functions.

Im just confused as to what's best. The obvious answer is to use what looks best but after so many adjustments it's hard to say what looks better from channel to channel.
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#4 of 8 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted October 13 2005 - 06:52 AM

Greetings

Cable channels are both video based and film based. It depends on the material they show. IT's what is shot on film ... versus what is shot with a video camera.

Evening news is not film ... Monday night football is not film ...

You know right away ... film just looks a certain way and video looks another way.

Cinemotion helps with films you watch on tv ... and tv shows shot on film. IT does not help on sports events and anything video based ...

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#5 of 8 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted October 13 2005 - 07:58 AM

film is 24fps (23.97 or whatever itis exactly i always forget)

video is 30fps (or 29.whateverwhatever i also always forgetPosted Image)

so there's gotta be a cadence change there. crap sorry this is a horribly unhelpful rushed post but i gotta go catch a bus.

#6 of 8 OFFLINE   John Whittle

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Posted October 13 2005 - 02:54 PM

Quote:
But are Cable channel signals that are 480i considered "film based sources?


You can have film as a source on cable tv channels (like TCM). In the golden oldie past, film was tranmitted from film chains and the results (compared to today) were often blurred).

Film runs at 24 fps (nominally, it's actually 23.97 in ntsc land) and inorder to make it fit in the video world of 30 fps (actually 29.97 in color) fields are repeated to build up the image stream to the proper rate.

What happens in the Sony (and other sets that offer reverse telecine) is that the circuits detect the actual film frames and remove the duplicated fields thus restoring the 24 fps rate. Film on tv at 30 has a 3-2-3-2 cadence. If it's worked backwards thru reverse telecine you get 2-2-2-2. If the set then builds this into progressive scanning, it can display each frame three times and thus have a display rate of 72 which is much like the shutter in a motion picture projector repeating the image pulses on the screen.

There are test discs which you can use to determine if your set is working properly, normally you look for small detail on a fast pan (like a filmed speedway shot) and look for detail break up in the stands. If the set is doing it's job the details shouldn't be jagged.

Overall the effect is to be more theatre like in the film presentation. Remember one big difference between film and television is that a film frame is exposed all at once where as a television image is scanned so there is a temporal change in the television scan as the image changes between scan lines in an interlaced image. A film telecine will capture each frame and then a frame store will build out the fields in the 3-2 cadence so it's possible to work backwared.

I hope that's not too confusing, but it really is a subtle difference until you know what you're looking for/at and then it becomes very apparent.

John

#7 of 8 OFFLINE   John DeSantis

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Posted October 13 2005 - 09:19 PM

That was helpful, thanks guys. It is a bit too heavy for me. I guess I'll just leave the CineMotion turned on and the DRC setting at HIGH DENSITY as this is supposed to be for "moving pictures" The PROGRESSIVE mode is for "text and still Images" When I saw PROGRESSIVE I assumed it was for deinterlacing, but then saw the notation "for text and still images" At any rate it has to be one or the other.

The DRC option becomes unavailable when watching HD content which looks good.

Thanks again for all your input.
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#8 of 8 OFFLINE   Greg_S_H

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Posted February 11 2006 - 08:42 AM

I've got the 30XS955 and a progressive scan Denon DVD player, but the DRC option is grayed out and says "interlaced" in the menu in DVD mode. The only mode in which I can access DRC is standard cable. Expected? Is the DVD player the limitation?

Edit: Never mind. It only converts interlaced material, which makes sense. When I took my DVD player off progressive for a test, the options became available.