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DENON AVR-4306 vs YAMAHA RX-V2600


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18 replies to this topic

#1 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 04 2005 - 04:32 AM

I'm up against a buying decision. I've placed an order with Crutchfield for the DENON model, but the Yamaha looks great also.

http://www.yamaha.co....rs/RXV2600.htm
http://www.crutchfie....0&I=033AV4306B


The main differences (that I care about at all) seem to be:
1. No THX certification on the Denon, Yamaha has THX Select2
2. Yamaha model has 2 HDMI in, 1 out vs 3 in 1 out on the DENON.
3. Yamaha model upconverts all signals to 720p/1080i (sending them out via HDMI), Denon does not.
4. Yamaha retails for $1400, Denon $2000.
5. Denon model has an iPod dock connector and USB ports on the front panel.

The similarities are:
1. Both have auto calibration (YPAO vs MultEQ XT).
2. Both can be used as either 7.1 or 5.1 + 2 Channel second zone.
3. Both will convert analog video signals to HDMI (no upconversion on the Denon)
4. Neither has i-link inputs (though the early specs for the Denon said it would).

It's just my opinion, and I could be talked out of this, but I've always considered Denon products to be of a higher caliber than Yamaha - but the specs on this Yamaha look pretty impressive.

I've read some Sound and Vision reviews of other Yamaha receivers (for example, this RX-V657), and it seems that when tested, the power rating with multiple channels driven is significantly lower than advertised (http://www.soundandv....&page_number=1), versus only slightly less with Denon models (AVR-3805 - http://www.soundandv....VR-3805lab.pdf). This indicates to me that the amplification in the Denon receivers are higher quality.

Anyone auditioned Yamaha versus Denon in their home? My decision isn't final yet, but I'm definitely leaning toward the AVR-4306.

Finally,
I've ordered the silver finish in the 4306 from Crutchfield.com, because it seems they're the only place to get it. Anyone know of a good authorized dealer where I can find it for less than retail?


#2 of 19 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 04 2005 - 08:46 AM

Quote:
3. Yamaha model upconverts all signals to 720p/1080i (sending them out via HDMI), Denon does not.
On the Denon 4306 thread on AVS, a gentleman got an email back from Denon saying it will do this.
Quote:
1. Both have auto calibration (YPAO vs MultEQ XT).
The Denon Auto EQ MultiEQxt will calibrate the sub, the Ypao doesn't go below 60.
Quote:
Anyone know of a good authorized dealer where I can find it for less than retail?
Try locally. Denon doesn't authorize online sales of their products unless you buy from an authorized dealer. Same goes for Yamaha RXV products. I would think there are a few dealers within reach of Longmont with the right pricing for you.

There is one in Boulder which seems close.

#3 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 04 2005 - 01:05 PM

Thanks for the reply. I do know of a dealer in Boulder, a large retailer, though I don't think they can beat the price I've ordered the Denon for thru Crutchfield ($1925 shipped). It's doubtful a dealer would lower the price on such a new item.

Plus, I have take a vow to never shop there again (long story).

Crutchfield offers free shipping should I need to return the item, and it's an authorized dealer.

Good info on the 4306 upconverting - I'll head over to AVS and check it out! It's not a dealbreaker, because my video sources are already 720p (except my video game systems - that is until I get my Xbox 360).


#4 of 19 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 05 2005 - 08:40 AM

If it's not a dealbreaker, the Denon 3806 WILL take your 720p sources and upconvert them to HDMI and output via HDMi 720P. It also has the MultiEQxt and about $700 cheaper than the 4306.

Worth considering.

#5 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 05 2005 - 09:44 AM

I've looked at the 3806, but I like the 4306 a little more. I'd hate to get the 3806 and then regret not spending the extra dough to get the extra features I want.

At this point, I'd be in the same amount of trouble with my wife spending $1300 as I am spending $2000.

*grins*


#6 of 19 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 05 2005 - 01:44 PM

LOL, If you say it that way. Do it! Posted Image Posted Image

#7 of 19 OFFLINE   Thomas_A

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Posted October 06 2005 - 04:18 AM

I've demoed the Yamaha and the Denon side by side- It comes down to personal taste. Some like the yamaha sound- others the Denon. I happen to be a Yamaha user (I own 4 yammies). I dont think you will be dissapointed in either- however...you can save some money now...get the Yamaha and always add amplification later if you dont think it has the Balls. Of course...you can do that with the Denon as well.

#8 of 19 OFFLINE   Thomas_A

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Posted October 07 2005 - 04:48 AM

Actually..would not the new RX-V4600 be a closer match too the Denon...and still cost a tad less?

#9 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 07 2005 - 10:07 AM

The 4600 lacks some of the key features of the 2600, the most important of which (to me) is analog video to HDMI conversion.

Both the Denon 3806 and 4306 have this, as does the Yamaha 2600. The Yamaha 2600 is also advertised to upconvert analog video signals to 720p/1080i. I've also read that the Denon 4306 will do this, but it isn't a big deal.

Thanks for your feedback, though. The release of the 4306 has been delayed for a bit (Crutchfield says 10/21, Denon support says "November"), so I've more time to look around.


#10 of 19 OFFLINE   skip marr

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Posted October 09 2005 - 03:48 AM

Have you looked into HK?

#11 of 19 OFFLINE   Shane Martin

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Posted October 09 2005 - 04:53 AM

Skip,
The cheapest HK that has HDMI upconversion which Chris wants is the 740 which is due out later this year at $2999. That's $1,000 more.

The 635 doesn't have it and the rumored 640 isn't even out yet and won't be until mid next year(guessing) but it will debut at CES in January. Last years 635 came out in March/April so March/April for the 640 isn't out of the question.

#12 of 19 OFFLINE   skip marr

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Posted October 09 2005 - 01:13 PM

Well, it looks like he should wait and evaluate the HK. Many kick their heat and build quality, but many can tell you once you own one, and appreciate the significant improvement in sound quality, you will never go back.

Marantz is similar. Good luck!!

#13 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 09 2005 - 03:36 PM

Can someone tell me why HK receivers have considerably less power than other brands?

#14 of 19 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted October 09 2005 - 04:16 PM

Quote:
Can someone tell me why H/H receivers have considerably less power than other brands?
You mean HK, right? They have less "advertised" power, or more "realistic" or less "inflated". HK's have been measured very close to it's claimed power in any channel configuration.As you already pointed it out some Yamahas, and models from Sony, Onkyo, and Pioneer measures far less [in multi channel configuration]then what they claim on paper.
Also keep in mind that in oreder to get a small 3db gain you have to double the power output.In other words a 100w amp[measured] will only have 3db gain over a 50w amp, in loudness.

#15 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 10 2005 - 03:49 AM

Quote:
You mean HK, right? They have less "advertised" power, or more "realistic" or less "inflated". HK's have been measured very close to it's claimed power in any channel configuration.As you already pointed it out some Yamahas, and models from Sony, Onkyo, and Pioneer measures far less [in multi channel configuration]then what they claim on paper.


Thanks for the info (and I fixed my spelling goof, thanks). Like Shane pointed out, with the features I'm looking for, HK is outside of my budget. I've heard that HK used to have issues with build quality, but they've ironed those things out. Looks-wise, I wish every A/V Receiver looked as good as the HK units.

While I've got some HK fans paying attention, what would you say makes HK better than Denon? Alot of this is opinion and personal preference, I know. I just want to get a sampling of information before I spend the money.

For what it's worth, I presently own an Onkyo TX-DS898 and aside from a DSP issue causing audio dropouts on a select few DD soundtracks (which can be alleviated using the 6CH analog inputs from my DVD player), I've been completely happy with it. I love sound on my Aperion Audio speakers, and I've never felt that it lacked for power (advertised to have 110W * 7 channels). I'm just looking for something with analog video to HDMI conversion and HDMI switching. I do have a pretty large space to fill, so I'm looking for something with at least as much power as my Onkyo receiver. It will go into my bedroom when I get the new receiver.


#16 of 19 OFFLINE   skip marr

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Posted October 11 2005 - 01:45 PM

Chris,

I can tell you that years ago, I was impressed with the tech info that HK put out that others did not (for obvious reasons) - slew rate, rise time, negative feedback, ultrawide bandwidth - all of these affect the overall SOUND of the receiver. I was pleased with HK, then got talked in to a Yamaha. It was an OK producer - though I always felt something was missing.

About 10 years ago, our house was hit by lightning - no major damage aside of the Yamaha, a couple of Sony TV's, our air conditioning unit, and a fax machine. So I went right out and purchased another HK unit. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I took the HK unit to 3 upper end shops and asked to A:B them on the same line. All shops were very accomodating and enjoyed the challenge. Here were the results:

Shop A - carried Denon and Rotel. Very surprisingly, the HK blew the Denon away. The Denon sounded very "tinny" and lacked the overall sound quality the HK had. The Rotel was a closer match - though the $1500 Rotel carried better in the higher DB than the $800 HK - regardless a much better comparison, and the closest out of the 3 shops. We used Thiel speakers.

Shop B - carrfied Onkyo, Marantz, and Sony. The closest the HK came was to the Marantz. In my opinion, the Onlyo was the overall worst, the Sony being second. We used B&W speakers.

Shop C - a high end shop and the only comparison was against Adcom and Arcam. Adcom was very harsh and lacked depth. The Arcam was a closer sound - though not as good on HT as music. Speakers used were Dynuadio.

As you can see, the choice of receiver does affect the quality of sound to some degree. True, a more significant element is the speakers themselves - but you should take some time to A:B receivers.

CC carries HK and Onkyo with a 30 day return policy. BB carries Yamaha and Sony with the same. And any decent shop should encourage an A:B comparison or at least allow you a loaner over the weekend of a demo. Best time is to offer to pick up Saturday afternoon and return Monday.

From a personal standpoint, I enjoy the relaxed sound of the HK on music, and their enveloping soundstage on HT. Yes - more $$ but comparitively - no contest. The previous poster is correct with regards to power - the HK is true power with a lot of current - and you will see it will override a Yamaha 120/channel any day with as little as 50-60RMS.

Good luck, and let us all know what you select!!

#17 of 19 OFFLINE   Chris Rock

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Posted October 11 2005 - 03:56 PM

skip,
Thanks for the thorough response. Personal experiences are always the most helpful.


#18 of 19 OFFLINE   Westly T

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Posted December 19 2005 - 07:05 AM

I'm not sure about HK's quality, I have a very old model that sounds great, but I just hate the new look they have taken. I'd have to hide the thing!
- Wes

My old Home Theater

#19 of 19 OFFLINE   Shiu

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Posted December 19 2005 - 12:00 PM

HK's 50/60W cannot beat a RX-V Yamaha's 120W, especially in 1,2 channel driven. In 5,7 channel driven, it may compare well with the 120W RX-V but not even close to a Denon. Search H.T.mag (they tested an AVR630 as well as a 3805) and/or S&V lab measurements to see it for yourself. HK advertised their output more honestly but it does not make their 50W amps more powerful than Denon's 120W. Their high current thing is an instantaneous (very short duration) rating only. The RX-V Yamaha and Denon can do that too.

Food for thought, if you can save $700 by settling on a 3806, you could end up with much more power by spending the $700 on a two channel amp and use it with the preouts to drive your front speakers. That way your system may sound better on 2 channel materials.


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