Jump to content



Sign up for a free account to remove the pop-up ads

Signing up for an account is fast and free. As a member you can join in the conversation, enter contests and remove the pop-up ads that guests get. Click here to create your free account.

Photo
- - - - -

Pioneer 1015 not loud enough


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
34 replies to this topic

#1 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 03 2005 - 01:01 PM

Hi. I jumped on the bandwagon and bought the Pioneer 1015 replacing my 4 yr old Pio 509. However, it seems that my old receiver was much louder (although less clear sound) than the 1015. I used to be comfortable at around -40db on that one but here I have to raise the volume up to around -20 to get the same amount of loudness. Am I missing something? Isn't 1015 supposed to be really loud and powerful? The speaker connections seem to be okay. The MCACC passed with no errors.

So far the only thing that looks cool is the blue power light Posted Image Actually, MCACC is pretty cool too. But if I have to raise the volume to about 80-90% of total available for normal listening, I am not sure if I want to spend 500 bucks.

#2 of 35 OFFLINE   John Garcia

John Garcia

    Executive Producer



  • 11,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 24 1999
  • Real Name:John
  • LocationNorCal

Posted October 03 2005 - 02:23 PM

This isn't unusual, and certainly not for the price range. In my smallish bedroom with just 2 speakers, I found that I needed to crank that guy to about -20 before I really got decent levels (MCACC off), and once it reached -12 it was starting to very audibly distort. IMO, the 1014 wasn't a bad receiver at all, but it fell short of it's advertised power rating. I don't know about the 1015, but the 1014's manual stated that the 110w rating was for 2ch operation only.

What are you using as a source and how do you have it/them connected? How big is your room and what speakers?
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#3 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 03 2005 - 03:08 PM

Hey John. I have tried both my sat-receiver and dvd player, both connected thru optical cable. speakers r pretty efficient too, energy c7 fronts, c-c1, and c-r1 rears. The room is 20*16 with a high (18') ceiling. What's puzzling is the only variable that has changed is the receiver. The new one is supposed to be 120wpc (20hz-20Khz, 0.2%THD) as opposed to the weaker old one: 100wpc (1Khz, 1%THD). But somehow these numbers are not translating to reality.

I mean, I tested the Onkyo 503 (75wpc) last week and that sounded pretty loud. So, I am thinking should I pay $200 more for the 1015 just to get auto-eq and component upconvert at the expense of seemingly less power. I wanna believe there's something wrong with my setup but I can't put a finger on anything.Posted Image

#4 of 35 OFFLINE   lee ison

lee ison

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 61 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 31 2004

Posted October 03 2005 - 03:43 PM

I guess it depends on your speaker eff. Iam drivng a 7.1 speaker sys. in a 20x14 room with no problem ,also I don't hear any distortion.by the way what db level are you trying to reach?

#5 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 04 2005 - 12:05 AM

Lee, I think the speakers are pretty efficient. Speaker sensitivity is 90 or more. Did you compare your 101X with any other receiver in the same room? My complaint about lack of loudness is relative to 2 other cheaper receivers I tried. If this were the only receiver I had used, I guess I would have been okay.

#6 of 35 OFFLINE   John S

John S

    Producer



  • 5,460 posts
  • Join Date: Nov 04 2003

Posted October 04 2005 - 01:51 AM

Well you can't go at all by the volume settings... Those are arbitrairy. A fair test would be how loud each can go and maintain clean pristine sound.


The 1014/1015 is not known to be a power house though at all. I'm not sure exactly where you would have gotten that impression. Does not hit even Denon 3800 series performance power wise, more like Denon 2800 series power output.


I would guess two AVR's in question here are about dead even on output in all honesty.

#7 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 04 2005 - 01:59 AM

Thanks for your response John S. I see your point about volume not being a fair test. To me, its like when you test cars, you want to see how hard you hit the gas versus how fast it goes. I think I am going to return the 1015 in favor of the Onkyo 503. Good thing I bought it from BB, not internet. Even worse would've been ebay Posted Image From the money I save, I can buy one of those cool harmony remotes Posted Image

#8 of 35 OFFLINE   John Garcia

John Garcia

    Executive Producer



  • 11,550 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 24 1999
  • Real Name:John
  • LocationNorCal

Posted October 04 2005 - 02:00 AM

That's what I'd suspect too. It just seems like you have to turn it up higher compared to the others because the operating point is that high for your setup (speakers, room). Your room is quite large and that receiver may be just a bit underpowered for that size of room, even with efficient speakers.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#9 of 35 OFFLINE   James Phung

James Phung

    Second Unit



  • 409 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004

Posted October 04 2005 - 02:24 AM

You should ignore the volume setting as this will vary for every receiver. I've seen enough new 1014/1015 owners question the volume of the receiver b/c they are listening at -20, which is normal for most 1014/1015 owners. You already said that this receiver when played at the same loudness is clearer should show you that the amp section is much better than your previous receiver, main difference is volume numbers. IIRC, the 1015 can go up to +12.

#10 of 35 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

JeremyErwin

    Producer



  • 3,219 posts
  • Join Date: Feb 11 2001

Posted October 04 2005 - 03:07 AM

wait just a minute here. I thought the whole point of moving from an arbitrary volume (let's see here, my onkyo 502, coupled with my speakers, will produce test tones of 75db when the volume is turned to 52-- or was it 53?) to dBs below reference was to provide some sort of basis for comparison.

With a volume control calibrated in dBs, one could say
Quote:
I could only play movies at -15 db before the distortion got to me, but after I upgraded my amplifiers, 0 db sounds silky smooth

and everyone who has a calibrated setup can understand how loud that actually is, 105db peaks and all.

But maybe that's an unobtainable ideal.

#11 of 35 OFFLINE   rob-h

rob-h

    Second Unit



  • 263 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 06 2005

Posted October 04 2005 - 07:21 AM

JeremyErwin, the output required to produce a spl varies depending on room makeup and seating distance. Cal your system while seated 10 feet away and you may get up to 0 db on your 1015 without distortion easy. Move it to 20 feet then cal it and the amp is working much harder to get up to 0db on your dial. Although the SPL at your position is exactly the same, the amps have much less headroom.

#12 of 35 OFFLINE   JohnnyG

JohnnyG

    Screenwriter



  • 1,523 posts
  • Join Date: Dec 18 2000

Posted October 04 2005 - 08:29 AM

It's important to remember that clean power *sounds* less loud than distorted power. The only way you can really know what's going on here is with an SPL meter.

#13 of 35 OFFLINE   Victor Ferguson

Victor Ferguson

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 120 posts
  • Join Date: May 02 2005

Posted October 04 2005 - 10:40 AM

The Pioneers have been way over hyped and don't have a great amp section. They have alot of bells and whistles but the amp section is not anything to brag about. I bought one brought it home, hooked it up, calibrated, and then took it back to the retailer.

#14 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 04 2005 - 01:09 PM

Just wanted to update that I changed certain settings and now there's more punch. Here's what I did -

1. MCACC had set all speaker levels to around 0db. cranked them up
2. The distances were all incorrect. I guess I should have placed the mic at the listening position. Manually corrected them
3. Manually changed speakers to Small. Sub has more punch now.

I can't say that the level of loudness is more than my last Pio but it is about the same. But since the sound is a lot cleaner, the sum total is a lot nicer. Phew!

#15 of 35 OFFLINE   rob-h

rob-h

    Second Unit



  • 263 posts
  • Join Date: Jul 06 2005

Posted October 05 2005 - 03:46 AM

SummyD, cranking the speaker levels to an arbitraty number is not going to sound good. You need a meter and you need to cal them to 75db (if you are using the built in test tones). You may get close to the correct values if you reconnect the mic and actually put it at the listening position though.

#16 of 35 OFFLINE   ChrisHeflen

ChrisHeflen

    Supporting Actor



  • 912 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 09 2002

Posted October 05 2005 - 05:32 AM

I agree with Rob, sometimes the setting from the MCACC can be way off. Your best bet is to do it with the spl meter and then check them with the MCACC.
I have put 3 1015s in friends rooms, from medium to big and they have had no problem filling the room.

#17 of 35 OFFLINE   Jasen Chandler

Jasen Chandler

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 91 posts
  • Join Date: Sep 16 2001

Posted October 06 2005 - 05:42 AM

I just installed one of these in a 7.1 room. There is no way this unit makes 120W rms with low distortion. Very underpowered. The Kenwood 9050 has more power as does the more expensive Outlaw 1070.

I'm not sure why this reciever is so weak, but it is.
~JC

#18 of 35 OFFLINE   SummyD

SummyD

    Stunt Coordinator



  • 68 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 18 2005

Posted October 06 2005 - 07:18 AM

>> I'm not sure why this reciever is so weak, but it is.

I am dissapointed. Can't really justify spending 500 that I spent on this. I hate to take it back but I think that's what I'll do.

Anyone suggest any better ones. I have Energy speakers and a fairly large room as noted in a previous msg.

#19 of 35 OFFLINE   James Phung

James Phung

    Second Unit



  • 409 posts
  • Join Date: Jun 04 2004

Posted October 06 2005 - 08:00 AM

Summy,
Your room is quite large. THX Select certification requirement is for a receiver to power a room up to 2000 cubic feet. Your room is almost 6000 cubic feet. THX Ultra certification is for rooms up to 3000 cubic feet (found in $2000+ receivers). You're gonna need additional amps if you want your speakers to fill your room.

Your initial problem seems that you ran mcacc with the mic in the wrong position. You then later adjusted the distances manually. I have yet to see you state anything you've done to properly calibrate the receiver (like run mcacc again with the mic in the correct listening location or use an SPL meter).

#20 of 35 OFFLINE   ChrisCan

ChrisCan

    Agent



  • 40 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 13 2005

Posted October 06 2005 - 08:12 AM

I have the 1014TX and I upgraded from the same Pio 509S.
I noticed an instant and substantial power increase and the ability to drive my B&W 601S3's cleaner and to a much higher volume. My sound now feels much fuller. You are right about the volume knob though it is calibrated differently than the 509S, the -db reading on my on my receiver was at around -35 for normal movie listening now with the 1014 it's about -20db. This initially confused me and I as well thought the 1014/15 was weak until I realised that the 1014 could be driven cleanly into +db. I am completely satisfied with the 1014 for it's price. I don't think you'll find a more powerful receiver without spending substantially more $. the 1015 has a substantially better quality and more powerful amp than the 509. Actually it is superior in every way. You can't trust advertised spec. Almost every manufacturer juggles the numbers, the only thing you can do is try it for yourself. But if you don't like it then return it and try something else. I'm definitely keeping mine.