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Married... With Children Season 4 - Syndicated episodes (and explanation)


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#21 of 67 OFFLINE   Gord Lacey

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Posted August 26 2005 - 12:51 PM

I think ravma meant commercial songs you would hear on the radio. It's a bit like Star Trek; only a few actual songs were used in the series (usually in the Holodeck).

The score would be considered part of the show, so shouldn't have to be licensed (though I suspect there are a few shows where this isn't the case).

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#22 of 67 OFFLINE   Katherine_K

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Posted August 26 2005 - 12:56 PM

Like I said, valid point, incorrect detail. I think that what we're dealing with here is the fact that music rights holders really don't need to get more exposure for the songs. They have a commodity that the studeos need and it untimately costs them little charge an arm and a leg.

Profiler Episode 4 comes to mind.

#23 of 67 OFFLINE   Robert Ringwald

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:10 PM

Wonderfalls has replaced music. It aired in 2004. Studios just aren't thinking ahead with these things. Joan of Arcadia: season 1 has the theme used in only 1 episode on each disc. It aired during the 2003-2004 season.

I think that there's more to it than just "older" and "newer" shows.

#24 of 67 OFFLINE   Shawn_Sm

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:13 PM

Why couln't they just cut the opening credits off of those episodes entirely, with a small explanation why? That would have been fine.

#25 of 67 OFFLINE   David Rain

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:15 PM

There isn't just one opinion on this subject or one way to go. Certainly everyone wants to have everything in it's original condition and uncut. I'd love to have the original theme song but frankly I'm not bothered by the replacement that much. I wouldn't have been listening to it repeatedly anyway. If the music rights were going to be outrageous then I think they made the best decision to replace it. It's too bad it had to happen but perhaps it will send a message to the music rights holders. If they try to charge too much they'll end up making nothing by not having their songs used at all.

It is the syndicated cuts that bother me most. I hate that especially since the sets before were uncut, I believe. If elements truly are missing then I understand. But if a show as old as I Love Lucy can find and replace EVERYTHING then there really are no excuses for any other series. Didn't the Brady Bunch re-edit episodes to insert missing material ? Obviously it can be done.
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#26 of 67 OFFLINE   Justin Bauer

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:19 PM

Thanks for the info Gord. It is a shame that we have to put up with the music and episode problems because of greed. I will still get the set, but the show does not feel the same to me without the original music.
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#27 of 67 OFFLINE   Mark Talmadge

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:29 PM

Everyone here complains about syndicated vs broadcasted episodes on DVD's these days but this is just like that old story of the Boy who cried Wolf. While TV Shows on DVD are a prime source of information for upcoming releases these companies are going to start to get wise and stop releasing this information regarding upcoming releases to such websites when these websites start slamming these companies for their "sloppy" releases.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Everyone cries and moans and complains about a TV show not being on DVD and then when it does arrive it's not the version of the episodes you want? So what. Get over it. Overseas fans of these shows get syndicated episodes as well when they are broadcasted and they're none the worse for wear.

The one thing these companies don't like to see if such DVD Reporting websites such as TV Shows on DVD giving these studios ultimatums such as the editorial that was posted on Gord's site. While I applaud Gord for doing this, and it would be nice to see broadcasted episodes, it's not the end of the world and these companies don't like being slapped in the face from such websites that they provide information to on their upcoming releases.

Slamming editorials that appear online will not cause these companies to sit and listen. Email, Phone Calls, Write Letters ... these are the true formats for fans expressing their disapproval over these studios and this is the only real format that cause these studios to really look at their practices. Instead, everyone posts on web forums and editorials on websites and these execs just at these articles and messages and just shake their head.

Letter Writing capaigns have always been an effective way for consumers to get their point across and it's just a sad look at many of the entertainment fans here who haven't taken that in regard.

#28 of 67 OFFLINE   Rob T

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:51 PM

I'm dissappointed that they couldn't come to an agreement for the theme song for season 4. or did they even bother to try this time?
and I'm also dissappointed that we get the cut versions of some episodes.
but that said, I'll probably still get it. I love the show too much not too.

#29 of 67 OFFLINE   ElijahS

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Posted August 26 2005 - 04:56 PM

There is a difference between you and I complaining about syndication cuts, music replacements, etc. and Gord commenting on it. I've seen several articles not related to his website where he is quoted on the television DVD market, so obviously he is noted in several circles as a reliable source on TV DVD info. Studios that might not pay attention to the complaints we make are going to be more likely to listen to someone with more influence. Gord's editorial, while it's possible that it may anger the studios, isn't going to get the same reaction letters we would write.
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#30 of 67 OFFLINE   DaveGTP

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Posted August 26 2005 - 05:01 PM

Quote:
It was Season 5 that had cuts. A character sang a couple of songs that couldnt be licensed, so the scenes were cut.
This is why I'm making my own DC DVDs from the TBS broadcasts, although I'm proud to own Season 1's release.

eh. I just mooch 'em off of my wife, that was off the top of my head. Posted Image

Like I said, I feel bad for you guys who get your favorite shows edited, or with music replaced.

And it looks like in this situation you couldn't even import the proper versions. Posted Image
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#31 of 67 OFFLINE   PhilipG

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Posted August 26 2005 - 05:58 PM

There's a lot of talk that music rights holders are holding out for unreasonable fees. Do we even know that DVD companies like Columbia are offering to pay reasonable fees?

What the industry needs (from my perspective as a consumer) is for someone independent to decide upon the fee on a case-by-case basis - even, perhaps, after 3 months after sale, so that the fee can be lowered or raised within certain boundaries. Surely that's the "fair" solution to this problem that will satisfy all three sides (DVD producers, rights holders and consumers)?


#32 of 67 OFFLINE   Shawn_Sm

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Posted August 26 2005 - 05:59 PM

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't they be using the same prints that were used on the best-of discs. Now they don't have the uncut "Rain Girl" episode? Yeah they didn't need to do any editing for the best-of but they HAD the episode. So it got lost in the past 3 years?

#33 of 67 OFFLINE   ElijahS

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Posted August 26 2005 - 06:02 PM

It didn't "get lost in the past 3 years" necessarily. There would have been no need to edit the episode for the best-of DVD because it used the right theme song. When Sony had to go back in to change theme songs, that was when they might've discovered the missing original, making the syndication version more necessary.
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#34 of 67 OFFLINE   PhilipG

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Posted August 26 2005 - 06:43 PM

And another thing: just how long does it take to change a section of music on a piece of video? Hours?!!! I can't see it taking a competent techie with the right software any more than five minutes.

#35 of 67 OFFLINE   Kwang Suh

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Posted August 26 2005 - 07:03 PM

Quote:
And another thing: just how long does it take to change a section of music on a piece of video? Hours?!!! I can't see it taking a competent techie with the right software any more than five minutes.
I work with editors. Yes, it can take hours. It takes time just to capture the source, more time to edit it in something like Avid; I can't even imagine what it would take to sound-match the music to the material. That could take weeks.

At the very least, if you had the fastest editor in the world, it would still take 48 minutes for each episode - that's assuming that the editor finishes his work in 0 minutes.

#36 of 67 OFFLINE   ElijahS

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Posted August 26 2005 - 07:08 PM

Quote:
And another thing: just how long does it take to change a section of music on a piece of video? Hours?!!! I can't see it taking a competent techie with the right software any more than five minutes.

But for someone to do a more thorough, professional job, see the above post.
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#37 of 67 OFFLINE   Shawn_Sm

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Posted August 26 2005 - 08:28 PM

I must be missing something. How is the best-of different from now other than the editing/theme song? Whether the episodes needed editing or not, unless the audio tracks were stored separately from the video, I don't understand how this adds up.

#38 of 67 OFFLINE   PhilipG

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Posted August 27 2005 - 01:23 AM

Quote:
I work with editors. Yes, it can take hours.

Hours to replace the opening credits music and end credits music?! That is what we're talking about here, isn't it? According to the article, Sony went back to their original masters, but couldn't find the M&E tracks for those 7 eps. But we know that they have the full uncut eps (not the masters, but prints, or whatever copies of VT are called) - or at least they have one of them one, the one that was on the "best of" compilation.

With the freeware software that I have available to me here, I could rip the VOB from the best of set, overlay the replacement theme, create a new VOB and burn back to disc, and it would take me a matter of minutes...


#39 of 67 OFFLINE   Gord Lacey

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Posted August 27 2005 - 03:44 AM

Quote:
The one thing these companies don't like to see if such DVD Reporting websites such as TV Shows on DVD giving these studios ultimatums such as the editorial that was posted on Gord's site.


Actually....the response from the studios hasn't been too bad, and they all seem interested in working to explain how some of these issues came about. I'm about to post a response from Universal on "House" not being anamorphic, and one from Warner Bros on the missing intros to "Tales From the Crypt." The studios are looking at this as a way for them to explain the issue from their end. Of course, as we've already seen, consumers/fans may not believe the explanation, but at least it's there. A response to the Roseanne issue was squashed higher up, but there are people in the company who are trying to change that, it may take some time.

Quote:
With the freeware software that I have available to me here, I could rip the VOB from the best of set, overlay the replacement theme, create a new VOB and burn back to disc, and it would take me a matter of minutes...


Why not do it then? Mail me a copy of the DVD you make and I'll pass it on to someone at Sony. Maybe you'll get a job out of it.

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#40 of 67 OFFLINE   DanielF

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Posted August 27 2005 - 06:05 AM

Quote:
With the freeware software that I have available to me here, I could rip the VOB from the best of set, overlay the replacement theme, create a new VOB and burn back to disc, and it would take me a matter of minutes...
You are absolutely right!

Quote:
Why not do it then? Mail me a copy of the DVD you make and I'll pass it on to someone at Sony. Maybe you'll get a job out of it.

Ok, here we go!
I took one episode from season 3 with the new opener and one episode from season two.

Cut the soundtrack from S2 and pasted it into the episode from S3.
All in all it took me 30minutes (including downloading a software and finding the DVDs) - and I'm not an expert!

Here you can download the example:
h**p://yatuc.com/63 <-- sorry I'm not allowed to post normal urls (just replace the ** with tt)
Info: Avi-file, 5mb, mp3- & xvid codec used.

Note that the bad quality results from the compresion.

And now tell me that people from Sony can't do that too.
After I did the first episode I can put it into a batch job and let the computer do the rest of the work. Go to sleep and in the morning I have a completet DVD with the original Soundtrack!

Daniel,


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