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Achieving Flat Bass Response


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28 replies to this topic

#1 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 19 2005 - 02:45 AM

Hey guys, I want to start tackling this issue with my HT. Basically I have a crazy basement room (7k cu ft) with cement floors/walls and lots of corners/angles of walls.

I also just picked up a SVS 20-39 PC+. Sub sounds really good, but there are some crazy peaks at times.

Would something like this help me out?
http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd

I really didn't want to get into building bass traps and such. They are to much $$$...

How can I get started?

I've also got a laptop with MIC in capabilities if that helps...

I can get you some room pics if that would help out, let me know...

#2 of 29 OFFLINE   Brian L

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Posted August 19 2005 - 03:24 AM

Snapbug is a great place to go for help with setting up a Behringer Feedback Destroyer, and it is designed around the Radio Shack SPL meter. If you search the HTF for "BFD", there are lots of threads where it is discussed.

Another option I can recommend is here:

http://homepage.ntlw...mulcahy/roomeq/

This program also uses the RS SPL meter, but it actually will compute the settings for the BFD. It requires a bit more effort to set-up, but once its running, it automates the process of setting the BFD.

Brian

#3 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 19 2005 - 04:29 AM

How does the BFD hook up to your HT? Is it through the LFE line out->BFD->sub?

Also, do I need a good quality MIC for my laptop for RoomEQ to work correctly?

#4 of 29 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 19 2005 - 04:35 AM

From the link you provided:

Quote:
If you have only one sub in your system you can use either the right or left Input/Output. You will need either � inch or XLR type connectors on your cables. �If you already have RCA type connectors on your sub cable(s), you can pick up a couple of RCA to � inch adapters at Radio Shack.

HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#5 of 29 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted August 19 2005 - 05:04 AM

Quote:
How does the BFD hook up to your HT? Is it through the LFE line out->BFD->sub?

Yes, that is correct.

I thought the current model of BFD from Behringer was going to become extinct about 6 months back? Surprisingly, I picked one up yesterday at my local Guitar Center for $99 + tax. The salesperson said the BFDs were still in their system and have shown no sign of disappearing anytime soon.
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#6 of 29 OFFLINE   Brian L

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Posted August 19 2005 - 05:07 AM

RoomEQ was designed to work with the RS SPL Meter. It has built in corrections to offset the "C" Weighting of the meter. It can also work with a higher quality mic, but the author has said that good results can be had with the venerable RS meter.

I use my BFD only on the sub, so the Sub/LFE output of my AVR goes first to the BFD, then to the sub itself.

Brian

PS: OT note to John. Still Karting? I recently got to do some Karting in Brazil. What a blast. Took pole in my session, then fell asleep at the starting line; ended up 4th! Great fun...if only we had a track in my city.

#7 of 29 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted August 19 2005 - 06:23 AM

OT: Brian - Not lately, Speedring lost their lease and went out of business just a few moths ago. There were two others started up in our area though, one by some of the Speedring people, but I haven't had a chance to get over there yet.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#8 of 29 OFFLINE   Kevin_Wadsworth

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Posted August 19 2005 - 08:03 AM

The av123 R-DES system found here (http://www.av123.com....s&product=31.1) would also help you out. Compared to the BFD, it only has 4-bands for equalization, compared to 12. But it does have a much nicer interface and allows you to store up to 5 curves if you like to use different bass response curves for different situations (movies vs. music). Like the BFD, it is designed to work with the Rat Shack SPL meter.

I have a BFD and it does the job for me. Personally, the nicer interface and stored curves on the BFD wouldn’t be worth the extra money to me, but YMMV.

#9 of 29 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted August 19 2005 - 08:41 AM

Ouch on the price of these things....

I am glad Velodyne has seen fit to offer EQ in the DLS line, really makes that 15" even more of a bargain.

#10 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 20 2005 - 05:59 AM

Where can I get the correction/conversion chart in 1hz increments?

Also, I do have a laptop, but it has no MIDI input (RoomEQ says)... It does have a MIC input though... What can I accomplish with this? Nothing?

Man, I am just not understanding this stuff yet...

1. I have the RS meter with the test cd burned from basstraps.com
2. I need to play the tone cd and record what I get, convert the measurements to real readings.
3. write each 1hz measurement onto a TXT file.
4. Import the TXT file into RoomEQ

Then what? Is this right so far?

ALso, when playing tones, I get a little pop from the center or front speakers at all vol levels. Whats up withy that? Isn't the sub the only thing that should be audible?

#11 of 29 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted August 20 2005 - 10:55 AM

Quote:
I am glad Velodyne has seen fit to offer EQ in the DLS line, really makes that 15" even more of a bargain.
What's a DLS 15 costs?

#12 of 29 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted August 20 2005 - 12:46 PM

Quote:
What's a DLS 15 costs?

If you're referring to the DD-15 with the digital EQ, the
MSRP is $4,000.

[Edit]: I'm quite sure John was being sarchastic regarding the fact that Velodyne was able to throw in the EQ with these subs - and for their price. Posted Image
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#13 of 29 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted August 20 2005 - 04:30 PM

Quote:
If you're referring to the DD-15 with the digital EQ, the MSRP is $4,000.
Quote:
[Edit]: I'm quite sure John was being sarchastic regarding the fact that Velodyne was able to throw in the EQ with these subs - and for their price.
Yep that's what I thought.

#14 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 21 2005 - 11:16 AM

Here is my freq response measurements that I've taken. I used the ACS spreadsheet to complete it. Before I started, I played White Noise on all front channels so that it said 75 on the RS meter. Then, went through and plays the right freq and marked it down.

Was this the correct way to accomplish this?

Also, here is the graph.(blue line is 20-39PC+) Let me know what you think or suggest.

Posted Image

#15 of 29 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted August 21 2005 - 09:57 PM

Did you use the RS meter correction table to compensate?
If yes other then the slight hump at 16hz, looks pretty amazingly flat to me.

#16 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 22 2005 - 02:01 AM

Yes, I did use Correction.

http://www.snapbug.ws/subtestmodel.xls
This sheet has built in formulas..

It looks flat? Don't I have peaks: 36hz-56hz? Then another one at 72hz-98hz..?

#17 of 29 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted August 22 2005 - 03:34 AM

No, I am talking about the DLS5000R for around $600. You don't get room eq, but it has eq that helps the extension quite a bit.

I am attempting to figure out right now, if a custom eq could be burned into the instruction chip though, it seems a possibility.

#18 of 29 OFFLINE   Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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Posted August 22 2005 - 12:45 PM

Quote:
It looks flat? Don't I have peaks: 36hz-56hz? Then another one at 72hz-98hz..?
Chris, I think you confused everyone with that magenta line overlay. It makes your chart look like a “before and after equalization” display.
Quote:
Would something like this help me out?
http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd

I really didn't want to get into building bass traps and such. They are to much $$$...
Then the BFD is what you want. Posted Image

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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#19 of 29 OFFLINE   Chris Huber

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Posted August 22 2005 - 01:43 PM

Yes, my current measurements are the blue line. Thats what I said before. The excel had to graphs, so I just made the red line 75 all accross the board.

So, I do have peaks, correct? If so, the BFD can tame them pretty well?

#20 of 29 OFFLINE   Lewis Besze

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Posted August 22 2005 - 03:56 PM

Quote:
So, I do have peaks, correct? If so, the BFD can tame them pretty well?
Yes, for both. I did get confused with the magenta line like Wayne said it.


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