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I think I am going to downsize...


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#1 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 28 2005 - 06:42 PM

Just bought house and have to work in my HT gear somehow; the space isn't ideal and I only see 2 options.

Here are some shots of the room:

Looking into the LR from the DR:
http://img.photobuck....ivingroom1.jpg

A little closer:
http://img.photobuck....ivingroom2.jpg

Looking out from the LR:
http://img.photobuck....fireplace2.jpg

Sliding doors on the right, picture window on the far wall:
http://img.photobuck....ivingroom4.jpg

I was running a 7.1 setup previously, given the layout of the room, I feel that I may have to go down *sniffle* to 5.1 (maybe 6.1 if I can work with the space above the sliding doors (livingroom4.jpg).

I can place the set (50" LCD) where the couch is in the livingroom1.jpg shot, with main viewing where the couch is in livingroom4.jpg, mains l/r of the set, sub to left of the far (big) window, component rack off to the right of the right speaker against the far wall (or swaped with the sub or left of the set), center below the set, surround l/r behind the couch at ear level (or tucked into the ceiling corners, above the windows which would require the purchase of smaller surrounds, but would allow for 6.1).

Corner loading (livingroom2.jpg) doesn't seem to be an option due to surround placement.

Current Speakers:

Klipsch RF3 x2 (mains)
Klipsch RC3 II x1 (center)
Klipsch RS3 x2 (sides)
Klipsch RS3 II x2 (rears)
Single SVS 20-39PC+ (sub)

My new house might not allow me to use anything speaker wise except the mains and center and Sub (which might be too much of an eyesore now given the room).

The surrounds are basically too much speaker for the space, the areas for placement can't handle speakers of that size and I don't want to add stands, to keep the open feel of the room, I'd like to wall mount.

How many people here are running smaller sattelites? Smaller than Bookshelf?

I'm not planning on moving anytime soon and there are no other options for setting up this area. This will be used for both HT and music (but I am not a 'stereo purist'.

Given the small space, I think I might need to drop down to a smaller system.

How many people here are running smaller sattelites? Anyone dropped from towers to bookshelves/sattelites and been happy with the result? Bookshelf/sattelite combo? If so what brands?

Thanks!

#2 of 24 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted July 28 2005 - 07:43 PM

I think you need to be introduced to Maggie....

http://www.magnepan.com/_mc1.php

http://www.audioexce...n/pic/MC1-1.jpg

http://www.hometheat...peakers/104mag/
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#3 of 24 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted July 29 2005 - 12:19 AM

I've bounced between towers and bookshelf speakers. Not really dissapointed, because both have their strengths.

Just some suggestions:

1) Do you have room to install an infinite baffle sub in the wall, or ceiling? This will save mucho space by not having a sub sitting out.

2) Have you considered in-wall speakers for your surrounds? This should allow you to use surround speakers, but not consume much space for their use.
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#4 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 29 2005 - 02:46 AM

Great suggestions but none of them will work, the mags look great, but they wouldn't work for us as surrounds given the windowed/sliding door area, we don't want to block either of them.

As for in-wall gear, that's too much of an effort right now, we'd focus on the kitchen if we were going to do anything that needed drywall work.

I'm looking for a standard solution, just perhaps a bit smaller. I've researched Gallo and Orb and B&W, auditioning is the tough part.

#5 of 24 OFFLINE   ColinM

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Posted July 29 2005 - 03:54 AM

*cough*bose*achoo*
You call that a knife?

#6 of 24 OFFLINE   SummyD

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Posted July 29 2005 - 04:22 AM

Sound & Vision mag seems to like the new Energy Take series. They look awesome and should go with your nice decor. Seems like all of their speakers can be wall mounted. Here's the review:

http://www.soundandv....&page_number=1

#7 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 29 2005 - 08:03 AM

Sorry, bose isn't an option, thought that might have been clear based on the gear listed =)

That Energy systems looks like the right size, I might be able to go a bit bigger if needs be, but if it's small and sounds great it size doesn't matter.

Any other reccomendations?

#8 of 24 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted July 29 2005 - 09:06 AM

Well, if you're going to diss Maggie and break her heart....I'd go with the Totem Dreamcatcher system over the Energy set-up, even though I"m a huge fan of the Energy Veritas.
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#9 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 29 2005 - 12:00 PM

I love the look of the maggies, just not functional for my needs at this time.

#10 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 31 2005 - 09:01 AM

After doing some research as far as dimensions go regarding surround speaker size, I am at even more of a loss now.

Rockets, Dreamcatchers, Take 5s, Axiom's, all have surrounds that are too big for my space (as we'd rather not use stands.

In addition, I've sorted out a few other needs:

Use: If I had to pin it down, I'd guess we use the system for 40% movies, %34 TV (wife), 24% games (me and the wife watching) and a tiny %2 for music. Soon to have 'baby videos' thrown in there cutting down all 4, with an increase in Music use. We like all types of movies and music: Comedy to Action, Classical to Metal.

It needs to sound good: I've not owned many speakers, but with most things, cars, computers and technology in general, I do tend to like 'good' gear, I spend a lot of time researching and I do have the eyes and ears to discern between crap and ‘wow’. I work in video games, so Audio and Video play a huge roll in my day to day activities, almost non-stop analyzing.


I would like to improve my gear, (yes, even while attempting to go smaller). That said I know there are speakers that would sound better than my particular Klipsch speakers (even just going up the line: RF7s) to my ears (and not so to others).
I would also like to go for a different sound. I do hear the 'bright/clear/live/brash/whatever you want to call it' sound that the Klipsch have compared to other speakers, this doesn’t bother me, but they do fatigue my wife’s ears (at lower than ref).

$$$$: As for dollar amount, that remains to be seen, based on what is out there that fits the bill. I would wager that it would be under $2K, maybe a bit more (I would have to recoup some by selling the Klipsch Posted Image

WAF: (I've been calling it Wife Annoyance Factor, who knew it was 'approval' Posted Image She wants speakers that fit the new house (shown above in the first post), no speaker wire everywhere (I agree on that one).

Space: We don’t have a lot of it. The ceilings are angled so surround placement would be awkward as one whole side of the room (where the left surround would go) is open and would require the speaker to be much higher than the other one (right surround wall) and well above ear level, ideally we’d have the left surround placed on the corner of whatever we put in place of the bookcase shown in the bottom right corner.

Baby: Something 'safe' as we have a newborn and don't plan on moving for a while: wall mounted, or very secure. Or, something that won't tip over and crush her when she starts wobbling around =). We’re ok with going with towers (or larger wall mounted mains), bigger centers (Bigfoot/Axiom), even keeping the SVS we have, though depending on what we do speaker wise this may be swapped out.

It’s the Surrounds that are the real issue as we both like 5.1+. I understand the room might not allow for 7.1 (or even 6.1), so we can live with 5.1. The angled and we don’t feel like doing in wall stuff at this time. There is a sliding glass door behind the seating which would be opened from behind where we put the right surround if we were to use stands (and it would partially block the window).

Some layout examples

At this point I want something that sounds better overall, and has surrounds smaller than my current Klipsch surrounds to allow for 5(maybe 6).1 and are out of the way.

#11 of 24 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted July 31 2005 - 10:08 AM

Tim: Being that you want this to be an upgrade and you are having a tough time with your surround placement, have you considered just going to a really good 2.1 or 3.1 system and just forgetting the surrounds? Honestly, in terms of getting the best quality sound, a lot of people would rather have a superior front end and no surrounds than a lesser system all around. Just an idea.

Secondly, why not just go with 5.1, placing your surrounds where you have the L and R rear speakers in your diagram, and calling it a day? My listening room is larger than yours and all I have are floorstanding Maggies in front (MMGs) and a pair of MMG-Ws (smaller version of the MC1s) wall mounted on the back wall, and it works great! I was just posting the other day in the "Maggie Update" thread how my fronts are 20' away from the surrounds in back, yet I'm able to hear all sorts of effects on the sides as if there were speakers there. I guess what I'm saying is that if you go to 5.1 you don't HAVE to have your speakers on the sides where one is much higher than the other or whatever. Most of us have rooms that require us to make compromises, but we can still enjoy the crap out of the sound we get even given a less-than-ideal configuration.

Anyway, just another couple of cents I thought I'd throw out there Posted Image
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#12 of 24 OFFLINE   MikeNg

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Posted July 31 2005 - 12:38 PM

I agree with Alan's first point. Having a really good 3.1 system will be much better than a smaller, compromised 5.1 system. If you are set on getting a sat/sub system, see this article from Audioholics

I don't know if you've considered it, but you may want to have your surround channels as inwall/inceiling speakers, which will help to keep your installation 'clean', and keep the mains/center as box speakers. Looking at your photographs, It looks like your 2nd floor joists run parallel with the couch, which is in your favor should you decide to put inceiling rear channels.
Here's an article on inwall/inceiling speakers.

If you still like them, you could still keep the Klipsch mains/center you have now, and add matching inceiling speakers. By keeping the surrounds closely matched to your mains, you ensure a more seamless 'surround stage'.

Anyway, I like that room - really clean lines and the color really 'pops'.

#13 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 31 2005 - 01:16 PM

AlanZ, I'm guessing that the 5.1 setup is what I am going to have to go for given the room size.

I've thought of going to a 3.1, but I know that I will eventually go to 5.1 so I am just trying to get that right off the bat as I make video games for a living and more often than not, I either bring my games home to test them out on an HDTV/5.1 to make sure they work properly or I play other games for fun (yet it's still working as I scrutinize the competition) and I'm a sucker for things flying around and over my head Posted Image

I'm still looking for 'quality' sound, better sound over what I have now and I do think that I can find better sounding speakers than what I am using now in a smaller size. The Klipsch Surrounds are massive. Besides, with the wife thinking that the room will be overrun with speakers, now is my chance to upgrade ;P

MikeNg, it's only one floor, but there is room for the speakers. We are not looking to do any drywall work (especially for speakers) as we have the kitchen in our sights for any DIY work.

Thanks for the complements on the room, we were lucky with the house (more pics here).

We're not looking to change the color or decorate with tall furniture (low AV racks are next up), or dark furniture. We love the flow of the house, which is part of the desire to keep speakers from dominating that room; the TV and Sub will handle that on their own.

As for the Klipsch, again, I like them, I know they are bit bright/accurate, I can hear and so can my wife (she gets fatigue), so while they still work, I think that it is time to try something new.

Now that I think about it...I will just add towers for the rears/surrounds. This will allow for better multi-channel music, I won't need stands and I won't have to hang anything =)

Hmmm better to go totally new brand or start off with picking up some RF7s/RC7 and move my RF3s to the rears...

#14 of 24 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted July 31 2005 - 02:10 PM

Quote:
Hmmm better to go totally new brand or start off with picking up some RF7s/RC7 and move my RF3s to the rears...

You're starting to confuse me. Two paragraphs up, you mention the detail/brightness of the Klipsch speakers causing ear fatigue with your wife and now you're thinking adding the RF-7s/RC-7 ??
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#15 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 31 2005 - 02:17 PM

I never once complained about the sound of them, I like the Klipsch sound. I merely stated that if possible I wouldn't mind switching for something 'different' sonically. As for the wife, well she can either fight the fatigue or take a smaller hit on the funds Posted Image Seriously though, it takes a loooong time for her to get to that point and remember, the biggest issue is placement (hanging/stands) of the surrounds, this would be the easiest route to take.

Not sure how you got confused =)

It's just another option for me to think about, that's all.

#16 of 24 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted July 31 2005 - 02:21 PM

Just sort of thinking out loud, but if I were ever goign to go back to a traditional box-type speaker, I'd give those RBH ones a listen....everything I've ever read on them has been glowingly positive.
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#17 of 24 OFFLINE   Tim Hess

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Posted July 31 2005 - 02:28 PM

AlanZ, thanks for the link, but they might not fit =)

#18 of 24 OFFLINE   AlanZ

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Posted July 31 2005 - 02:47 PM

LOL, yeah, those are some monster speaks Posted Image
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#19 of 24 OFFLINE   Sen

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Posted August 01 2005 - 07:00 AM

If Surround is the problem - why not try the Revel Concerta series.

Their surround S12 can be operated in Bipole, Dipole, monopole and even as 2 surround pairs (for 7.1).

I think the MSRP would be about $2500 for F12 mains, C12 center and S12 surround.
Am not sure if your budget includes a new Sub-woofer - in which case it would be over your budget.

#20 of 24 OFFLINE   Jeff Savage

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Posted August 01 2005 - 07:23 AM

Use some cables and hang the surrounds from the ceilings. With the right cable and hardware it would look very retro mod and fit in nicely. Heck I mounted a Cornwall above my TV I am sure you can find a way to mount those puny little RS3's Posted Image

Laters,
Jeff
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