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Still undecided


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24 replies to this topic

#1 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 19 2005 - 03:28 AM

I want a big picture. The room is about 19X12 I've been looking at projectors, (96 inch screen width) but I'm not handy when it comes to hand tools and the installers I found around here only want to sell $3500 or more projectors. Plus, I need an electic screen so that looks to be another $1500 or more. So now I'm starting to look at large TV's But I plan on putting the home theater in the basement, so getting a large TV down the stairs could be difficult. You can seem pictures of the basement at note: I can't post the URL because I'm a new member to this site /note: The pictures are on flickr and my username is benwaynet on flickr. I just don't know what to do. The project can have a bigger picture and easier to get down stairs, but it will be more difficult to install and more items to buy so the price could add up. A large TV (lcd,dlp,plasma,crt,etc) will be easier to install but more difficult to get downstairs. The picture will be smaller, but could cost less. Too many options!!! help!

#2 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 20 2005 - 02:40 AM

If you are putting your HT in a basement and it will be light controlled than GET A FP!! It is not expensive at all and you CAN do it yourself. If the installers only deal with 3500$ and up FP's....then I would not deal with them. Right now a 4805 or H31 can be had for around $1000. Before we get ahead of ourselves.....What will you be using the projector for?? Just movies, HD material, Gaming, SD TV?? Once you let us know what you will be using it for then we can narrow the field down a bit. Also...how far will you want to sit from the screen?? Electric drop screens are nice but you can make a cheep fixed screen for 60$ or buy a decent manual pull down for around 150$
What FP were these "instalers" trying to get you to buy? The FP world right now is so vast and competitive that you can get a BEAUTIFUL 720p FP with a nice screen for around $2000. Or if you want to save more money you can get a great 480p FP and nice screen for around $1,100. If you want a THEATER and you have decent light control than really FP is THE way to go. Once you see it you will literally laugh to yourself when you hear about a friend showing off his "monsterous" 55" DLP set that he paid $3000 for!! So to close, answer the questions I posed and we'll hook you up. If you want to do a bit of research then check out www.projectorcentral.com for some basics.

#3 of 25 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 20 2005 - 03:13 AM

True theater?? heck, I'd go FP..... The two projectors I lean to these days.. Are the Infocus 4805 (Under $1000 these days) but not a true HD projector. The other in the Panasonic 700 (Wich can be found under $2000)and is an HD projector.

#4 of 25 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted June 20 2005 - 03:42 AM

FP, easy. 4805. Cheap, beautiful, and will embarrass your friend's itty-bitty plasma.
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#5 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 20 2005 - 04:56 AM

I will be watching DVDs and TV (Analog and SD, I have charter cable and they still have about 70 analog channels) I'm not ready to pay for HD yet when there's only like 10 channels. I also want to hook my up my PS2 and play video games on it. I want a 16x9 screen. Are manual plug screen difficult to make sure they are pulled down at the same height every time? I'm also running into issues wiring the video cable See Home > Forum > Home Theater > HT Construction, Interiors and Automation > help me run my first video cable Page (1) (its not letting me post the URL even though its for a post on this site) Thanks,jb

#6 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 21 2005 - 11:16 AM

Jason, it sounds like a 4805/H31 may be the way you want to go. If you want a 96" screen you wll want to sit about 14-15' away from the screen thoug since screendoor might become a bit of an issue. What type of issue are you having with the video cable? As for a manual pull down screen it basicaly will work almost like a window shade except with definate stop points. It is difficult to explain but just understand that you WILL EASILIY be able to have it come down the same length every time you pull it down.......it kind of has different locking points all the same distance apart.....maybe like every 2 inches or so. Glad to see you seem to be leaning toward the FP route,,,,,once you go FP you will NEVER go back.........

#7 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 21 2005 - 02:45 PM

We will only be sitting about 11-12 feet back. Should I look at a DLP if I need to sit that close? The issue with the video cable is more of where to run it, the route, and how to leave it so it isn't damaged during drywalling and is still easy to access after drywalling. thanks,jb

#8 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 22 2005 - 06:41 AM

With a 96" screen using a 480p FP (4805 or H31) you are going to see some screen door. It may not be enough for you to care though since we all see things differently. If you are concerned you can move "up" to a Panasonic 700 or Sanyo Z3. Personaly I would go the Z3 route. It will be a bit cheeper and offers supposedly better PQ (from several reviews comparing the 2). Thay are both 720p and you will be able to sit closer. A Z3 can be had for around $1700 or so if you look around. If you can manage to move the seets back 2 feet though you can still get into the 480p DLP's which offer the best value in fp IMO.

#9 of 25 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 22 2005 - 01:10 PM

At 12' seating distance from the screen the 4805 is not what you want. These projectors are only popular because of the price. Rainbows and dithering artifacts, not to mention the increased viewing distances required because of the large pixel structure make this selection unwarranted. Even though you will not be watching HD content now, the higher resolution sanyo z3 with its superior scaling will make all your dvd sources look better. The panasonic 700 is also a good choice but the sanyo has the price advantage. My own opinion is to bypass the 480p dlp projectors and go with a 720p lcd model. I own 3 projectors and the panny 700 looks great on my 106" screen from only 10' viewing distance.

#10 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 24 2005 - 03:54 AM



Certainly can't agree with you one that one LOL!! Is the 4805 popular?? Yes. Is part of the poplularity because of the price?? Sure. Is it popular "ONLY" because of the price....of course not, common sence and a little knowledge of business disagrees with that "philosophy". The reason why it is popular is what you are getting FOR the price. The H31 and 4805 are loaded machines for that price. Seein you have owned a few FP's in your time you must know that resolution is one of many small parts that makes a "good" FP. I think contrast ratio/black level is every bit as important if not more. If you do not like DLP then fine.....but if you want to point out negatives of the technology then much can also be said about LCD (Screendoor, VB, degrading pannels, poor black level etc...) So I guess you need to pick your poison. Yes the Z3 is a fantastic machine and one that I have already recommended but I certainly would not say it has "superior scaling" over the 4805's Faroudja and DVD's will look better because of this! You obviously have not compared the 2 usin DVD. I come from the philosophy that there is the right machine for everyone......not the ....mine is the best and don't buy this machine philosophy......doesn't work well on on-line forums Posted Image.

#11 of 25 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 24 2005 - 03:20 PM

Evan; Since I am kind of new to this forum I had to talk with a few people whome I know personally and have been members on this forum for quite a while. You are well liked but tend to be a bit defensive and emotional at times. So I will cut you some slack.Posted Image

The 4805 is a good value for what it has going for it. I have seen this projector in action in the sister store where I bought my panny from. In my opinion the 4805 is in no way better than my lcd in black reproduction. The dithering artifacts in the black areas up close to the screen was almost enough to make me fall over. I have seen this in 12,000$ sharp projectors in which I used to own. People should watch dlp for a few hours before even considering to buy one of these models. The 720p lcd models still have more available lines for the scaler to spread the dvd information which obviously makes the pixels smaller for a smoother look. This is why the recommended viewing distance is so great for the 480p infocus. Does this make sense to you? Try watching the infocus at 10 feet like I do on a 106" screen with my panny. It cannot be done without major screen door in your face nightmares.

I love dlp even though you think that I am an lcd advocate. I am sensitive to rainbows. I even saw them on my sharp 12000 even though it was only on occasion.


For close viewing distances on a fairly large screen the recomended lcd projectors will give better results. But this debate will have to wait till after the moviePosted Image

#12 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 24 2005 - 03:55 PM

Have you made any desisions yet Jason?

#13 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 25 2005 - 04:40 AM

Well it sounds like I should look at the 720p projectors. I'll have to check out the reviews of both the panny and the Sanyo. I need to decide on a distance today, since I'm running my wires and will put 2 2x6's up for someplace to mount the bracket to once the drywall is up. So far only one issue running the wires. Well drilling a hole, the drill lurched forward after I was though the wood and hit one of my return air ducts and put a hole in it. Now I need to find an easy, quick way to repair it. thank you everyone for your help. jb

#14 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 25 2005 - 04:48 AM

ok, acording to http://www.hometheaterpeople.com/

The panny with a 96 screen can be between 11.2 - 22.3 for throw distance

The sanyo with a 96 sceen can be between 11.1 - 14.5 for throw distance

So If I put by my support boards for the projector around 13-14 back. that makes the zoom on the panny about 1.55 Is it ok to use that much zoom all the time?

thank you again. Everyone has been SO helpful!

jb

#15 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 25 2005 - 05:13 AM

Yes it is fine. I have heard that it is best to have the FP as close as possible to the screen for whatever screen size you will be using. Not sure if there is any real merit to that but it does make sence when thinking about it and the various natural qualities of FP.

#16 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 25 2005 - 05:39 AM

Anyone know about how long the power cord on the panny and sanyo are? thank you jb

#17 of 25 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 25 2005 - 08:32 AM

Jason; The power cord for the panny is 6 feet long. It it is ok. to extend it as long as the cord has sufficient guage to prevent current loss over long lengths. Home power cords designed for room air conditioners work very well. The distance from the screen that your projector should be is a position where the light path from the unit is as straight forward and narrow as possible. It avoids the lens from having to widen the light path from the outer edges of the glass which has a wider arc than the center of the lens. At 10 ft. from the screen on a typical 100" screen, the light beam is using 3.006 centimeters of lens area from the center of the optical path. At 15 feet, the lens is using 2.221 centimeters of optical path and at 20 feet the lens is using only 1.99 centimeters of optical path. The optical path determines the total apeture opening for a given distance to the screen. The narrower or smaller beam uses less of the curved sections of the glass lens which spreads the light beam out far less of an angle relative to the screen in which you are projecting on. The benefits? The smooth screen technology of the panny will appear smoother. The lens will not have to open as wide during extremly high contrast scenes. The further back the projector can be an not exceed the maximum aperature limits will give the best results. I am not saying that this is for all projectors but for my unit it seems to give the best results. It works just like a an adjustable flashlight lens where you can widen or narrow the light beam. Take this concept and hold a flash light a given distance from a wall and widen the beam then narrow it up. What do you notice? The lens must be wider at a closer distance to the wall for a given picture size which spreads out the light over a larger part of the lens. The wider light beam never looks as sharp. Since most projectors have a fixed lumen output, the picture should look brighter as well. For your 96" screen a range of 12-14' will be just about right.

#18 of 25 OFFLINE   JasonBenway

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Posted June 25 2005 - 09:03 AM

So your saying if I know I'm going to go with the panny. I could move the projector back, still have the 96 width screen and get a better picture? But since only the center of the bulb is being used for the entire picture, will it cause the bulb to burn out quicker, or am I total off. (very much possible since I'm still learning this stuff) Once again, thank you everyone for your great information. I'm going back and forth, reading the forums today and running wire, drilling holes, etc. The drywall starts on Monday, and I'll be busy tomorrow. So today's it! jb

#19 of 25 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 25 2005 - 02:58 PM

LOL!! oops....I just re-read my last post...I screwed up...I meant that you want to have the image projected to be the smallest that the projector can go......in most peoples cases this is FURTHER away from the screen not closer.....my bad, sorry for the confusion:b . As for the bulb thing....I really would not be too concerned about that. There is a lot of greater factors that go into premature bulb failure. I will say though that if you do go the Panny route many people have complained about the bulb not lasting anywhere near the 5000 claimed hours. A lot of people have reported a huge loss of brightness between 200 and 500 hours. This is of course not with all units but it is something that has been reported several times so I figure it is worth noting. With that said though I have seen a Panny 700 and it is a great machine. I was especially impressed with the build quality and the colors. Blacks were decent......it is no DLP but for an inexpensive LCD I was impressed. Very solid unit. I did notice a lot of VB but there is a flicker adjustment that people have had succes with. I think you will be very happy with either that unit or the Z3. They seem like the best option for your situation. Good luck with your projects. Hanging drywall SUCKS LOL!!

#20 of 25 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 26 2005 - 09:07 AM

Jason; Evan is correct about the bulbs life expectancy of the panny 700. I noticed a small brightness decline after only 300 hours on my unit. I now have over 800 hours and it does not seem to be too much different to me but without accurate measuring equipment it would not be fair of me to say it is not any worse. I am the primary user in our household and I hear from many people that you might not notice the gradual decline over long periods of time.

Yes the panasonic has a lot going for it for the price vs resolution performance. It seems that you are heading to the lcd camp and while there are many good choices in that arena (panasonic 700 ), ( sanyo z3 ), ( sony hs 51 ), the infocus 5000 has garnered great revues. Infocus always has top contenders in almost every projector category they participate in. Yamaha with their 500 model is very highly regarded but over priced.

I do love dlp and have had them before but my slow brain response is causing me to see all kinds of anomalies like occasional rainbows and eye strain after extended viewing periods.
Posted Image

All the lcd projectors are priced so low that they make great entry level units.

A hint for extended lcd pannel life (which really has not been determined ) is to always completely power off the projector after the cooling fan has finished it,s cooling cycle. All organic materials in the lcd pannels contain trace elements of glass amber resin compounds ( garc ), which contain fluid compounds with a water base. This expands and contracts with temperature and when the unit is in full operation, the panels stay at an optimum temperature. The spacing between the pixels actualy expand and contract with heat. The normal operation of the cooling fan keeps everything stable. When in standby mode, there is always a small voltage applied inside the projector and this heat has no other way out except to travel past the panels and out the vents on the front of the projector. When I leave mt projector over night in standby, the first 1/2 hour on up to an hour after I power it up the next day I notice that the 'smooth screen technology 'is not as good until after the projector fan has had time to aclimate the internal temperature of the projectors internal components. When I power it down completely then the next time I power it back up again the image in my opinion is very smooth and film like. This is the only quirk I have had with the 700 since day one. I have never seen vertical banding on my unit. Others say they have seen it only on occasion, and some have it all the time ( but not to a point where it becomes distracting ).

I feel you will not be dissapointed with any of the higher end lcd projectors, especialy on a screen in the 90" range. In my totaly light controled room my projector has amazing blacks for an lcd unit in my opinion and anyone else who has seen it.

I will only go back to dlp once I have the budget for a three chipper which will have to wait for now.

Best of luck with the project.Posted Image