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No audio outputs


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#1 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 16 2005 - 08:25 AM

Hi all. I'm new to this forum, so please let me know if I am posting in the wrong area. I am having frustrations with the following problem:

I recently received as a gift the RCA RTD120 DVD Home Theater System.

My problem is: the system does not have any audio outputs! I can the view the dvd just fine, but cannot get sound through the TV (which is a Sanyo 32"). The surround sound speakers all work fine, it's just getting sound out of the dvd player through the tv that is giving me fits. The unit has 2 audio inputs, but no audio output. Maybe this is the way it is supposed to be, but I cannot see playing a dvd and only having sound through the surround speakers, but not through the tv itself.

Can anyone give me any insight into this problem, as I've never seen one quite like this before, and don't really understand how sound can travel out of the dvd player into the tv without having an audio output on the player?

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

DavidGreer

#2 of 17 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 16 2005 - 09:21 AM

hmmm. Well that is exactly how I set everybody I install up. Sound must come from the surround sound unit.

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted June 16 2005 - 10:26 AM

It's an inexpensive all-in-one unit, and as such, it doesn't have any audio outputs as you've already found. That't one of the places where cost cutting kept the price low apparently. It does say in the manual that you can use an RF modulator to get both audio and video to the TV, and you would also then be losing the benefit of progressive scan.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
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#4 of 17 OFFLINE   BobMESQ

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Posted June 16 2005 - 12:20 PM

But is there any real progressive scan benefit to lose when hooking up to a 32 inch TV (which I assume is not HD)?

#5 of 17 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:49 PM

You're right. If the TV is not HD ready, then there is no way to use progressive on it and the RF modulator should only be around $25-35 from Radio Shack also.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#6 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 16 2005 - 05:22 PM

Hi guys. Thanks for all of the input and responses.
Let me give everyone a brief overview of what methods I have tried to get it working.

As already mentioned to correct the problem, I purchased a rather expensive RF modulator, with no results. I have tried every configuration with cables imaginable. I have even eliminated the VCR all together and tried using only the bare components, but still to no avail. I mean, I can understand there being no audio since there isn't any audio out jacks, but what I can't understand is how this unit can be sold, not only for the surround sound, but as a dvd player, but yet, it doesn't function as a normal dvd player that hooks to the tv for sound. I can purchase a seperate dvd player, but that seems so pointless considering this unit has a built in player.

I am really at my wits end with this system, for the sole fact that I cannot get any sound through the tv from the system. I really don't think I can watch a movie in "surround sound" only with no sound from the tv.

I am considering maybe going through my vcr for all sound; I might can get that to work, but it leaves me at the problem that I can only view VHS tapes with this system; not dvd's.

Hope some of this background (and rambling, lol) can give more insight to things I have tried. Any suggestions are very welcome, considering I am ready to throw the whole unit in a lake Posted Image

DavidGreer

#7 of 17 OFFLINE   Tony Loewen

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Posted June 17 2005 - 02:57 AM

Can I ask why you can't watch a dvd with surround only and nothing throught the TV? That really makes no sense at all to me. If it doesn't sound right to you, I would suggest that you go through the audio setup of the player to adjust levels and distance of each individual speaker. If you are listening through the TV, then you may as well smash all of the surround speakers to bits, because you are ruining the effect of having a surround system. It drives me nuts when my wife is watching anything on the cheap HTIB with the volume on the TV up. I wish I could just permanently disable the TV's volume. It throws the whole sound placement out of whack. Before you say you can't live with it, check out the setting menu of the player itself for any way to adjust a) the distance of every speaker to the listening area and b) the level of each speaker. I would think that's the reason why it sounds like you need the TV on. Once you have a surround system set up correctly, and I mean any system, including my el cheapo Koss HTIB, you will think the TV volume sounds way to bright and focused. If you don't, then you don't really need a surround system, and should donate it to someone who will appreciate it.

#8 of 17 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 17 2005 - 03:15 AM

"I really don't think I can watch a movie in "surround sound" only with no sound from the tv."

Yes, I don't understand this statement, as this is exactly what nearly everybody does.

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 17 2005 - 03:40 AM

Yes, you can ask, and yes, I'll tell you why. First, it's supposed to add to the experience, not completely eliminate the original source of sound. I mean, if it's the case as you state, then why doesn't all players eliminate their outputs, as you wouldn't need them? Why have outputs on any players, or receivers for that matter? Secondly, the player is supposed to be a "independent" dvd player. What if me and my wife have differing tastes, and she just wants to watch a dvd without surround? Not possible, because you can't just watch and hear the movie through the tv. So i'm supposed to go buy a separate dvd player now, just so someone else can watch and hear it regularly?
No, I shouldn't "donate it to someone who will appreciate it." I'm just posting questions in a forum as to why something doesn't work. No need to try to insult me.

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   Tony Loewen

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Posted June 17 2005 - 04:30 AM

David, I'm not trying to insult you. And yes, it IS supposed to replace, maybe not eliminate, but definitely replace the original source of sound. That's why people buy surround sound receivers, and all in ones. It is NOT to suppliment the TV's stereo rendition of the DD sountrack, it is meant to decode the soundtrack, and place the sounds where the sound engineer mixed them to be. This is supposed to be better than cramming 6 channels worth of information into 2 speakers. I mean c'mon, if you're on these boards, you have at least the basics about surround sound covered, don't you? I did a quick check of the unit in question, and it appears to be very low end. That means yes, if you want someone to hear the sound regularly, meaning through the TV in stereo, I guess, then you will have to get a separate.

A player and a receiver, albeit an integrated receiver, are different things. A player has to have outputs, but aside from Record Out outputs, most receivers don't have audio outputs to the television or other display device, because they are not supposed to. Otherwise, you would just be using the receiver as a big expensive switch.

Its a shame that this particular unit won't work like you want it to, as an "independant" dvd player. If it is advertised that way, I would definitely take it up with the manufacturer. Digitaladvisor has three reviews for it on its website, and I'll quote the titles of each.

"Junk machine and appalling service"

"Junk"

"You basically get what you pay for"

Dave, it's always great to see more people getting into the hobby, and I'm sorry we can't give you the answers you're looking for. But don't go telling people who have dedicated many thousands of dollars and many many hours of set up and tweaking that you are supposed to use a surround receiver in tandum with your TV's speakers, because you are wrong on that one, plain and simple, and I am positive no one else here will tell you different. As a dvd player, yes, it would be better if you weren't forced to use the surrounds if you didn't want to, you're right. I know lots of people that just want to watch TV or a movie to kill time, and don't want to fire up the receiver, but in your case, it's the same machine, so why not? Personally, I won't even watch regular 2 channel television just through the TV speakers, but my wife does all the time. I have a HTIB Koss P.O.S, and a full blown theater in the basement. Now my wife would never even think of watching a dvd without using surround sound. That's one of the huge leaps that were made from VHS to DVD.

Again, I am not trying to insult you, just trying to understand why you would want to bypass the surround if it was there, and you had to use the same machine for playback regardless.

If you want to get into home theater, most people will tell you to get separates anyway. Most HTIB setups are pretty low end. Hope you find what you're looking for.

#11 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 17 2005 - 06:16 AM

Ok. I think we got off on the wrong foot. I didn't mean to be so defensive and telling people how things worked; just aggravated that by the outside of the box, it leads you to believe that it works differently than it actually does. I appreciate your honesty. I'll be the first to admit that I'm fairly good at *most* electronics, but home theater is new to me. That's why I was so aggravated, because it was misleading, and being new to this field, I assumed it "added" to the experience; and not being used to sound not-coming from the tv, I really thought something was wrong. Once again, thanks for explaining.
Ok, so now that we have that out of the way, a couple more questions. What about gaming systems(I have an XBOX) and normal channel surfing? Will (or should) I have all of the surround working(but no tv sound) for gaming or normal tv watching? And if so, is there a particular way it should be hooked up?
Thanks again.

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 17 2005 - 07:53 AM

Gets a little tricky if your surround system has limited inputs....

But generally sound is routed directly to the surround unit still even when gaming and regular channel surfing and the displays speakers are not used.

Often people will end up doing their normal channel surfing with a stereo hi-fi VCR and no longer even using the displays tuner at all.

#13 of 17 OFFLINE   Tony Loewen

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Posted June 17 2005 - 08:35 AM

I think from the specs I saw, there are 2 audio inputs, but no video inputs on that machine. What that means is for audio, you are good to go for all of the inputs.

http://www.amazon.co....866127-3132906 Here's a link to those reviews I was talking about before, the third one appears to be of some value for it's hook up and set up information.

Since the RTD120 doesn't have video switching, here's what I would do. For xbox, I would run the output of the xbox to your vcr's input, on the back for cleanliness. That's the yellow, red and white rca jacks. This is then selected on your vcr by selecting video input, or video input 1, video input rear, whatever those jacks are labelled as. I would then take a cable and run the audio output of the vcr (red and white) to input of the receiver, aux 1 or aux 2. That has you covered for audio. Select aux 1 or aux 2 on the receiver to hear either a) your cable if you are running it through the vcr, or by selecting the vcr's video input corresponding to your xbox, b)your crazy gaming madness as you race around or fight off enemies.

Here's video. I'm not sure if your tv has coax, composite (single yellow rca jack) and component as well (3 rca jacks dedicated to video, usually red green and blue). If your TV has component, I would run the dvd player/receiver video output component into the component input of your tv for best video quality from the dvd. Then you would use your TV remote to select this input on the television to watch your movies. Then I would take the composite from the vcr (the video out) and run it to the TV composite input, and select that input to watch cable or your xbox, depending on what is selected at your vcr. To be able to use the TV's speakers for xbox or cable in this set up, you would need to buy 2 Y adapters to split the audio out of the vcr, one set of red/white to the receiver, the other to your TV. This setup requires you to use the vcr to change channels.

I suspect though that your tv only has coax and composite, in which case I would run composite (yellow) out from the receiver to the tv, and I would take the coax (screw in connector) from the VCR to the TV. Then, to watch a movie, select dvd on the receiver and the correct input on your TV. Sounds like you got that figured out already. To watch cable or play xbox, if you have the vcr hooked up with coax, you set the tv to channel 3 or channel 4, whatever you set the vcr up for. You then change channels (cable) with your vcr, or set it to video input to play xbox. You can then either use the tv's speakers if you don't want to turn on the receiver, or, and this is what I do, turn on the receiver, set to aux 1 or aux 2, and mute the TV, then you have some (prologic) surround sound to go along with your games or cable. Also, with this setup, you do not need to use you vcr to change channels or hear sound, so neither the vcr or the receiver need to be turned on to watch cable if you don't want to.


Glad we got everything cleared up, and I hope this is the kind of info you are looking for. A HTIB (home theater in a box if you were unsure) is a great starting point, and if you do get into home theater, there is lots of help available here and elsewhere. Careful, it's kinda like crack, once you start, it's kind of addictive. Alot of us suffer from upgraditis.

Hope you get everything working, and enjoy.

#14 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 18 2005 - 08:37 AM

Thanks for the excellent advice Tony. I followed your steps exactly and everything worked perfectly, except for one other problem I am having. When channel surfing or playing xbox, the surround all works, except for the rear right and rear left speakers. When I switch over to view a dvd or play a music cd, all speakers work. Not really sure if for some reason it is supposed to work this way, or if I need some kind of adapter or what.

And by the way, you were exactly right. After mounting all of the surround and getting all speakers in place, it sounds excellent. I am just leaving the tv on mute now, even when channel surfing and even though the 2 rear speakers are not working.

Thanks again for all of the advice, and hopefully you will know why I am having this issue with the rear speakers.

DavidGreer

#15 of 17 OFFLINE   Tony Loewen

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Posted June 18 2005 - 01:01 PM

David, the only thing I can think of is that you might have to use one of the receiver's DSP's to get surround out of a 2-channel source. Being unfamiliar with the unit, I am not sure how the remote works or where the menus are, but I would assume that by default, the aux inputs are set to stereo, or 3-channel stereo. When you select the aux inputs, there should be a way to turn on prologic to get the rear surrounds working. Once you do it the first time, the receiver *should* remember what you had it set for next time you go to use it. On my Koss' remote, there is a button for play mode. This scrolls through stereo, 3-channel stereo, prologic, then a few dsp's like live, hall, disco, etc. To get the best surround you can out of that unit, you would likely want to use prologic. For music, if you are listening to cd's using it's dvd player, or if you hook up, say, another cd player or your computer to the other aux input, experiment with what sounds best to you. Most of the time, for music, on my HTIB, I have it set to Live, but it depends on your preferences and the source. I'll see if I can download a pdf manual to check for you, but look for buttons labeled prologic, dolby, mode, play mode, something like that, and the display on the receiver itself should likely say "prologic" somewhere on it when it's selected. You should then have surround with TV and Xbox.

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   Tony Loewen

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Posted June 18 2005 - 01:08 PM

Yeah Dave, just found the manual:

http://www.radioshac....OME31-5033.pdf

Press the DSP button just below and to the left of the arrows/OK button when you are on AUX input. That should do it for you.

Also, just looking a little bit more at the manual, if you want to set the speakers up as good as you can for the best possible sound, check out page 9 of your manual for audio set up. Go to dvd/cd input, with no disc in the tray press menu, then go to audio set up. First, make sure downmix is off. Then go to speaker setup, and set the speaker distances of all the speakers to where you normally sit. Then use the test tone for each speaker and see if the levels need to be adjusted. The sounds from all of the speakers *at your listening position* should all be the same volume. If you can, buy or borrow an SPL meter, Radio Shack sells some pretty affordable ones, and adjust the levels of all the speaker so that the meter reads the same DB at your position. I sense though, that this may be overkill for you at this point in your HT odyssey, so just adjust them so that they sound the same volume to you. Adjusting the distance and the level of each speaker will make the sound even better for you, if you haven't done it already.

Take care.

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   DavidGreer

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Posted June 19 2005 - 03:28 AM

Thanks Tony, especially for looking up the manual.
However, when I try setting the aux inputs, the system will not allow me to do this. When I select Aux 1 and press DSP on the remote, it displays a NO sign (kinda like the no smoking sign, except without the cig). The remote is almost virtually useless on aux inputs, as it gives me this sign with most buttons.
It does this on both aux inputs. When viewing a DVD, I can change the DSP with no problems.
Oh well, maybe it's just because it's a cheap system. If you know of any workarounds, I would appreciate it. If not, thanks for all of your input.

DavidGreer