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No HD for revolution


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41 replies to this topic

#1 of 42 OFFLINE   Chris Bardon

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Posted June 14 2005 - 02:57 AM

Just read this over at IGN:

http://cube.ign.com/...4/624200p1.html

The short version-Nintendo isn't going to support HD resolutions on their new console. Nothing on whether 480p will still be supported, but no 780 or 1080.

Seems deliberately short sighted to me-is it that much more expensive to add on HD capabilities?

You have to wonder how much longer they'll be able to stay alive on their first party titles.
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#2 of 42 OFFLINE   Rakesh.S

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Posted June 14 2005 - 04:59 AM

there's a pretty big discussion over at AVS about this..

Not sure why there's hardly any activity in the gaming forums on HTF.. I guess everyone's a movie buff around here Posted Image

#3 of 42 OFFLINE   David Galindo

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Posted June 14 2005 - 08:56 AM

Typical Nintendo, behind the technology times. I love this quote:

Quote:
"To think that Nintendo might not even embrace component output is absurd. If that's true, which quite frankly I doubt, I think that's a mistake. There's no doubt about it," says F5's Eggebrecht, who adds that HD-compatible consoles will make the transition to HD speedier. "It's a little bit sad that as a hardware manufacturer you wouldn't be embracing that because quite frankly it's exciting."


How true. I also really, really hate Nintendo for quietly disabling component video support on the newly manufactured Gamecubes, and then admitted it only after some people discovered it. Would it really save money not to get the Revolution in HD?

As a person who is going to buy my first HDTV this year, this is pretty upsetting news. Sigh...

#4 of 42 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted June 14 2005 - 10:08 AM

Does this really matter if the games are still good? The PS3 is a digital entertainment machine, the X-Box 360 is an online media machine, but the Revolution is a gaming machine. I'm not quite sure HD should be a selling point as much as access to the entire library of Nintendo games for every console they've made and the next generation of their first party games is.

Also, its not that short-sighted. How many people own a PS2 or X-Box and a HDTV? Yet both consoles have some amount of support for HDTVs (even the GameCube does). By not including HD capabilities, they're keeping manufacturing and development costs down. When the technology is more widespread and cheaper, they'll include it.

#5 of 42 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted June 14 2005 - 11:12 AM

Quote:
When the technology is more widespread and cheaper, they'll include it.

And yet with the GameCube, they did the opposite. They cut it when the technology got more widespread and cheaper.

Quote:
Also, its not that short-sighted.

Time will tell.
high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#6 of 42 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted June 14 2005 - 12:35 PM

How many people here would rather have an HD-ready console with bad games instead of a console with good games and similar quality graphics, albeit with no HD? I'm not saying the PS3 or X-Box 360 will have bad games or that the Revolution will have good ones, but the focus should be on the games coming for the console.

#7 of 42 OFFLINE   BrionL

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Posted June 14 2005 - 02:36 PM

But we are in the HD Era now so Nintendo should include HD compatibility. I think the lack of HD support will hurt the Revolution.

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#8 of 42 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted June 14 2005 - 03:17 PM

Quote:
How many people here would rather have an HD-ready console with bad games instead of a console with good games and similar quality graphics, albeit with no HD? I'm not saying the PS3 or X-Box 360 will have bad games or that the Revolution will have good ones, but the focus should be on the games coming for the console.

Morgan, you know fine well my stance on games over technology/graphics. With Nintendo's current stance, and I honestly don't think it's final with the launch still so far away, they're releasing a console with a graphics display interface noticably inferior to current technology. In two or three years, as HDTV penetration grows (and it's selling faster & faster) they're going to be at a noticable disadvantage.

Right now, they're banking on their back catalog. That has a lot of possibilities and potential, and it will be appealing to a lot of people. There needs to be something more though for the machine to be anything other than a fringe player.

And it should be noted that we're a likely over a year away from its launch, and nothing is definite about this machine at this point. Same with the PS2. The Xbox360 is in a different position, obviously, with regards to features & deadlines.

Quote:
Yet both consoles have some amount of support for HDTVs (even the GameCube does).

The current GameCube platform does not have support for HDTV. Nintendo made a conscious decision to remove support for it from their platform.
high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#9 of 42 OFFLINE   David Galindo

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Posted June 14 2005 - 03:25 PM

Quote:
The current GameCube platform does not have support for HDTV. Nintendo made a conscious decision to remove support for it from their platform.


If you buy a new GC today, then it will not have progressive support.

If you buy a used GC before 2002, it WILL have progressive support.

http://www.nintendo...../component.jsp

#10 of 42 OFFLINE   BrianB

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Posted June 14 2005 - 03:33 PM

Quote:
If you buy a new GC today, then it will not have progressive support.

If you buy a used GC before 2002, it WILL have progressive support.

Yep. So the current GameCube platform does not have support for HDTV resolutions.
high resolution ipod featuring dlp hd programming is the best, almost as good as playstation 2 with wega windows media on a super cd! ps2 and tivo do dolby tv with broadband hdtv!

#11 of 42 OFFLINE   David Galindo

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Posted June 14 2005 - 05:53 PM

Ah, I didnt read closely enough, sorry. :b

#12 of 42 OFFLINE   Brian_Pete

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Posted June 15 2005 - 12:51 AM

I just bought a widescreen HDTV last month and I'm very excited about playing games in HD. The only game I've played in HD so far is X-men legends for Xbox. The resolution of the game looks fantastic even though the graphics aren't all that hot. I'm very excited about games like Gears of War and Project Gotham which will have awesome graphics and HD resolution.

I'm extremely disappointed about Nintendo's lack of support for widescreen on the Gamecube and it seems they will be following the same path for Revolution.

I know it's supposed to be about gameplay over technology and Nintendo's first party titles are usually great. But I want to be able to have my cake and eat it too. Great gameplay AND hi-def widescreen support.

Will most people that buy a Revolution have an HD display? Probably not, but I'm not going to be playing it on their TV and I might decide to not play it at all.

#13 of 42 OFFLINE   Ken Chui

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Posted June 15 2005 - 09:56 AM

If it's true that European and Japanese consumers haven't embraced HD with the same fervour as their N. American counterparts, perhaps Nintendo may be somewhat accurate in their assessment and ultimately, their decision to forego HD support with the Revolution (at least in the short term). Given that the shelf life of a console is, on average, 4-5 years before their respective successors are introduced, the rapidity of changes taking place within the marketplace may be such that one or more factors could easily propel HD demand in Europe and/or Japan to N. American levels literally overnight, leaving Nintendo with a regrettable and costly business decision for the duration of the Revolution's shelf life.

While the concern of graphics overemphasis above all other facets of game development is a legitimate and persistent one, I do think that smaller developers can still thrive in this new reality by offering creative and unique gameplay experiences that cater to niche segments within the gaming community, much like what we have today (moreso in Japan due to smaller distribution channels). The proposed $60 MSRP of next-gen titles will likely apply to bigger budget productions, rather than being extended across the board, i.e. there will still be games priced in the $40-50 range. Not every game requires character models to be composed of thousands of polygons nor environments crafted with multiple shader effects as being essential to the core gameplay.

I do think that Nintendo president Satoru Iwata's comment regarding technology advancements placing limits on creativity holds water. Here is a column by IGN's David Adams on the topic of original games (or lack thereof), which ties in to Iwata's concerns.

I believe the graphics envelope should be pushed, but if the future is little more than reinventing the wheel (as was the case with Carmack's DOOM 3), then I'm not sure I want to take that step into the next generation. A closer look at the upcoming games on the 360 and PS3 should be reason for concern from any gamer's perspective.


#14 of 42 ONLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted June 15 2005 - 09:57 AM

Quote:
How many people here would rather have an HD-ready console with bad games instead of a console with good games and similar quality graphics, albeit with no HD?
Sorry Morgan, but that's a paper tiger argument, as you sort of address in the second part of your post.

NOTHING precludes great games coming out in higher-res. Are you implying that if Nintendo were to support 720p/1080i that the quality of their games will SUFFER? That would be the logical conclusion to your argument above (that, and PS3/XBox will have terrible games in comparison).

The HDTV phase is coming, like it or not. If the new console were coming out today, maybe...just MAYBE...it could be excused for its shortsightedness. But the fact that it's most likely coming out in 2006, right when mainstream programming will have to go digital (yes I understand that doesn't necessarily mean HD) and most TVs being newly marketed will feature some sort of HD or HD-Ready capability...that's just being behind the times.

And yes, though most people still have their trusty analog sets, take a good look at your Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. stores...a heck of a lot of affordable HD sets are out there. As these old analogs break, they will be replaced with a new HD set. And the age of TV sets lasting forever has passed, we are in a disposable electronics age where TVs are lucky to last 5-7 years...many people will be buying new sets in the coming years, and the HD mass market penetration will begin in earnest. Nintendo better get with the times (and yes, I own a Cube, N64, and owned an SNES and NES).

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#15 of 42 ONLINE   Carlo Medina

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Posted June 15 2005 - 10:12 AM

Oh, here's another thing that burns me regarding Nintendo's view of things. From their website, with regards to why the component video output (digital out?) was removed from later revs of their Cube:
Quote:
Why have you removed the component video feature from the Nintendo GameCube?
On newer models of the Nintendo GameCube, we opted to remove the digital A/V out port from the system because we found that less than one percent of all Nintendo GameCube players used this feature.
Hmmm...could it be because you never sold the component cable in normal B&M stores and someone who would even be remotely interested in the component cables had to hunt it down in the Nintendo online store?

I mean jeez, make the product as scarce and hard to find as possible, and then blame the consumers for having less than a 1% usage.

As much as I've loved the first-party Nintendo games in the past...it's stuff like this that leads me to think that perhaps they are going to be going the way of Sega. Or at relegated to portables and kids games.

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#16 of 42 OFFLINE   BrionL

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Posted June 15 2005 - 10:48 AM

I can imagine that within the next few years Nintendo will become a software company only. Hopefully they will put their games out for both MS and Sony.

Brion

#17 of 42 OFFLINE   Morgan Jolley

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Posted June 15 2005 - 07:18 PM

Nintendo is profiting more from videogames than either Sony or MS, so they're never going to go software only. Sega did it because they were broke when they released the Dreamcast in America due to a horrible Japanese release a year and a half prior.

I have an HD projector in my basement and I have the GameCube's component cable. That said, I barely use it. If a game looks good, then it looks good wherever I play it. Sure, the graphics are great to look at on a high quality set, but I'd rather play the game in my room on a smaller TV than move the console into another room and re-setup everything for better visuals. This is my opinion.

Regardless, I have more faith in Nintendo's first-party games than any other company, so I don't think that HD-ready is as big of a deal as many think. The games will look good on an HD set whether they're in HD or not, and more importantly they'll be fun.

#18 of 42 OFFLINE   Ian_Fisher

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Posted June 16 2005 - 01:40 AM

Morgan, I totally agree with you that it's about the "games" first. Crystal-clear high def with a crap game is still playing a crap game. I think the problem is, the way Nintendo does business keeps 3rd party developers from even wanting to develop their great games for the system. I think their total denial that online play was important hurt the Gamecube just as Microsoft's opposite stance helped them gain marketshare and cement their position as the #2 console.

Not only that, but from what I've read, the lack of high-def is way down on the strikes the new console has against it. Hardware wise, it sounds like it is lagging way behind the other two, which again, is not really going to excite 3rd party developers to put out cutting edge games on the machine.

Nintendo's first-party games are great, and it's the one thing that (IMO) is totally saving them from going totally away. The entire library of old games is great, but for me personally, me playing an old NES game amounts to a half hour of "ah... this is great... I remember this game" followed by "... ok, I think I'll play Halo 2 or God of War.

It's almost time for the next generation. I just feel that an advance in hardware is going to mean an advance in "great games".
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#19 of 42 OFFLINE   DaveF

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:59 AM

I'm surprised to learn that the GameCube was neutered to remove the component output! Admittedly, the upconverted video from S-Video output is (nearly) the equal to native 480P in my Wega, but it still seems silly to remove this feature. And certainly making customers jump through hoops to get it, didn't do anything to sell it.

The argued choice of games versus graphics is spurious. And given the cube's lackluster lineup, I think it approaches the worst option, with blah games of bottom-tier graphics. A non-HD Revolution suggests N is losing its way or just doesn't care about the middle-class gamer who wants the biggest "wow" during his occaisional gaming sessions.

The classic games lineup is intriguing, but for a long-time N fan, the PS3 or X2 are starting to seem better choices for this casual gamer.

#20 of 42 OFFLINE   BrionL

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Posted June 16 2005 - 03:29 AM

It seems to me that Nintendo is trying to go out of business whether intentional or unintentional. I mean they just don't seem to be paying attention to what people want in a console.

Brion


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