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Buffy Season 1: Any Spoilers in Special Features?


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#21 of 216 Kevin Grey

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Posted June 16 2005 - 04:33 AM

I always thought that Buffy seasons had a tough time starting off, but by the end they were into high gear turning out great ep after great ep. Season three, to me, is the most obvious supporter of that theory.


Yup, in the middle of "Dopplegangland."

Yeah, it does kind of seem to parallel the awkwardness of meeting up with your friends after missing them for three months and trying to get back to the same place everyone was when they left for the summer.

I'll be interested in seeing how future seasons deal with and explain the "summer gap" after everyone is out of high school.

Wasn't the Season Three finale originally delayed due to the Columbine shootings? The only Buffy episode I ever saw before starting the DVDs was, IIRC, "Graduation Day Part 1." Thankfully I remember almost nothing of what happened but I do remember being horribly lost.

#22 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 16 2005 - 05:55 AM

Kevin,

continue to bare with the show through season 4. Season 4 is very polarizing, some fans consider it a good season, others consider it the weakest. I think it's a decent year, but for the most part, it's the "transition season" between the 1-3 version of the show and the 5-7 version. If you're not too fond of season 4, remember that 5 and 6 (IMO, 6 is polarizing to fans too) will redeem it.

#23 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 16 2005 - 05:58 AM

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Wasn't the Season Three finale originally delayed due to the Columbine shootings? The only Buffy episode I ever saw before starting the DVDs was, IIRC, "Graduation Day Part 1." Thankfully I remember almost nothing of what happened but I do remember being horribly lost.


yes, Graduation Day Pt. 2 didn't air until July. However, the Earshot episode was the most controversial from season 3, it was scheduled to air a week or two after Columbine, and didn't air until the fall of 1999, a week or two before season 4 premiered.

#24 of 216 Kevin Grey

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Posted June 16 2005 - 06:21 AM

yes, Graduation Day Pt. 2 didn't air until July. However, the Earshot episode was the most controversial from season 3, it was scheduled to air a week or two after Columbine, and didn't air until the fall of 1999, a week or two before season 4 premiered.


Didn't realize that about Earshot. I noticed the fall '99 air date in the DVD booklet and was a bit curious about what was up with that.

continue to bare with the show through season 4. Season 4 is very polarizing, some fans consider it a good season, others consider it the weakest. I think it's a decent year, but for the most part, it's the "transition season" between the 1-3 version of the show and the 5-7 version. If you're not too fond of season 4, remember that 5 and 6 (IMO, 6 is polarizing to fans too) will redeem it.


Oh, don't worry I'm in this for the long haul. I haven't been this taken by a show since Babylon 5.

Its always kind of nice to have the benefit of fan reactions prior to starting something. I've read that Seasons 4 & 6 are generally considered the weakest so I can adjust my expectations accordingly, although the hints I've read about Season 6 are very intriguing to me.

That's unfortunately part of my problem with Season 3- I've read so much about it being the best season of Buffy I might have set my expectations too high. Although the more I think about it the more I do believe there were some pretty serious flaws with the execution of the first half of Season 3.

#25 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 16 2005 - 06:31 AM

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I've read that Seasons 4 & 6 are generally considered the weakest so I can adjust my expectations accordingly, although the hints I've read about Season 6 are very intriguing to me


the problem with season 4 is that too much revolves around a certain character added that season that was not exactly a fan favorite, you'll figure out who I'm talking about soon enough. Season 4 had some fan-favorite episodes.

With season 6, there are some excellent episodes and some crap episodes with very little in between. There is a stretch of really awful episodes (the worst is probably Doublemeat Palace) about halfway through the season, but when it gets it's groove back, it's GREAT.

#26 of 216 Ray H

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Posted June 16 2005 - 11:51 AM

Yeah, I kinda liked Season 6. I found it pretty entertaining, but some terrible moments. I think "Wrecked" is the worst episode of Buffy ever. Posted Image
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#27 of 216 DaveGTP

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Posted June 16 2005 - 12:40 PM

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Oh, don't worry I'm in this for the long haul. I haven't been this taken by a show since Babylon 5

I felt the same way about Angel once it hit about S2. During S3/S4 Angel my wife started yelling at me cause I kept getting ahead of her (watching like 5-episode blocks until the sun was coming up). I feel that Buffy/Angel is the best thing I've watched since B5 as well.

Personally I found S1 very bad up until the last couple episodes - unlike B5 S1's inklings of story arcs dropped in here and there, Buffy S1 showed very little promise IMO until the last few episodes.

Buffy hits its high point in season 2/3 IMO, and I found it at its low point during S5/6/7.

The funny thing is, I was trading this show off for B5 to get my wife to watch it (although neither of us had seen Buffy/Angel, my wife heard so much buzz on it she wanted to try it). But I ended up enjoying it a lot myself, particularly seasons 2-3 of Buffy, and I pretty much have settled with Angel being my second favorite show (final decision depending on how S5 works out). We are watching Buffy S7 right now (I kinda chain-watched Angel all the way to the end instead of keeping to the "proper" 1-for-1 Angel/Buffy pattern).

If you liked B5, and like Buffy, I bet you will like Angel even better in the long run.
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#28 of 216 Paul_Scott

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:10 PM

FWIW, i loved S6 and not only that, a lot of the respect i have for the show is because of S6.

and i'm not just talking about OMWF. i'm talking about the whole unpleasantness. that quality is there for a reason and that reason is- the show is being emotionally true to the characters.
the season doesn't cop out on the ramifications of previous events.
especially when it would have been so easy to just brush them off.

although i admit i too hated the Doublemeat Palace ep.
it felt like a disposable S1 or 2 ep to me.

didn't seem to have anywhere near as big a problem with Wrecked as many others seem to have though.

#29 of 216 David Williams

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:20 PM

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Buffy S1 showed very little promise IMO until the last few episodes.

I have to disagree. The Witch (#3) & Never Kill A Boy On The First Date (#5) are 2 of the best of the season, along with The Puppet Show (#9) & Prophecy Girl (#12). The Witch really demonstrated the show's strengths right off the bat after the slightly uneven pilot.
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#30 of 216 Kevin Grey

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:25 PM

If you liked B5, and like Buffy, I bet you will like Angel even better in the long run.


Yeah that's why I'm a little worried about alternating between the two. Not only is the tonal quality supposedly different, but a part of me doesn't want to have to compare the shows episode by episode. Since the weaker seasons of Buffy seem to correspond to the stronger seasons of Angel it would feel almost unfair to be watching a Buffy episode and not enjoy it because I'm jonesing for the next Angel episode.

Just finished up Buffy Season Three. Spectacular finale and I thought the last half of the season was absolutely stellar. I still think the overall season suffered a bit from some of the character choices from the beginning of the season. I'd probably put Season Two on top because I found the Buffy/Angel storyline there incredibly powerful. I also preferred the group dynamic in S2 to that of S3.

and i'm not just talking about OMWF. i'm talking about the whole unpleasantness. that quality is there for a reason and that reason is- the show is being emotionally true to the characters.


That's what has me so intrigued about Season 6 and made me interested in the series in the first place. As I've said above, my chief problem with S3 was that at the beginning I don't think it was emotionally true to the characters from S2. I don't mind conflict or honest emotions from the characters (indeed I prefer it) but it has to be in character and also shouldn't be a plot contrivance.

#31 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:30 PM

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If you liked B5, and like Buffy, I bet you will like Angel even better in the long run.


I am so in the minority with this. I enjoyed Angel on The WB, but have never felt the desire to get the episodes on DVD, whereas with Buffy, even the lesser seasons, I was more than anxious to own. Most Angel episodes I watched once and it was more than enough, I have seen every BTVS episode at least twice.

#32 of 216 Kevin Grey

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Posted June 16 2005 - 02:32 PM

I have to disagree. The Witch (#3) & Never Kill A Boy On The First Date (#5) are 2 of the best of the season, along with The Puppet Show (#9) & Prophecy Girl (#12). The Witch really demonstrated the show's strengths right off the bat after the slightly uneven pilot.


I too enjoyed Season One, and in particular those episodes you mentioned. Admittedly I knew that the show would become heavier, darker, and better in later seasons so I didn't have the "prove it to me" attitude that I would going into a show blind.

Even in the first season though I thought the show exhibited a lot of great continuity (I'm a continuity whore) and some very clever writing. Most of my issues with the first season had to do with incredibly low production values and fairly pedestrian direction for many of the episodes.

I'd put Season One Buffy about on par with the first half of B5's first season, which I think is fair since Buffy S1 is only twelve episodes. I think for both Wheedon and JMS it took that amount of time for all of the shows' cast and crew to get comfortable with what worked and what didn't with their limited resources.

#33 of 216 Chuck Mayer

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Posted June 17 2005 - 03:40 AM

Count me in as seeing some glaring weaknesses in chunks of S6. Particularly Disc 3, which contains the Willow afterschool specials (Eps. 9,10,11). There is a good chance I would eat that DVD before watching it. There is some really good stuff in S6 as well. S4 is not bad (as you are finding out). Losing high school hurts, and Xander goes missing (figuratively) in S4, to the detriment of the show. But S5 is a strong return to form.

Buffy is never bad...just disappointing (because of high standards).

And I prefer Buffy to Angel - deeper currents of emotion and all that Posted Image

S1 was OK...they were finding their footing. Prophecy Girl is the first REAL Buffy. There is some charm to S1 as well, that hasn't been duplicated.

Still...it's TV doing something VERY special.

I still envy you,
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#34 of 216 Kevin Grey

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Posted June 17 2005 - 04:17 AM

S1 was OK...they were finding their footing. Prophecy Girl is the first REAL Buffy.


Prophecy Girl is fascinating to me because its like Wheedon is stepping in to personally give a course correction to the series. His direction on the episode is really strong and the whole thing comes off a like a demonstration for second season directors: "THIS is what the show should be like!"

Started Season Four last night and I was surprisingly impressed. I thought "The Freshman" was the best season opener for Buffy yet and I enjoyed the Roommate from Hell follow-up.

Watched the first two episodes of "Angel" too and I'm pretty happy with what I saw there also.

#35 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 17 2005 - 06:02 AM

well, the first season of Angel is the closest to Buffy as the series is, they go into different worlds as the show progresses, however, I just never was as big an Angel fan as Buffy.

I bought season 1 of Angel when it came out because I hadn't seen it, and while I enjoyed season 1, I wound up selling it because it wasn't something that I felt a strong urge to see the episodes again afterwards, I bought 2 and watched/sold it too and never bothered with 3-5 because I saw those first run.

#36 of 216 Jay_B!

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Posted June 17 2005 - 06:03 AM

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Started Season Four last night and I was surprisingly impressed. I thought "The Freshman" was the best season opener for Buffy yet and I enjoyed the Roommate from Hell follow-up.


you're about to see one of the most hated episodes of the entire series... "Beer Bad". It works as camp but even then it's still pretty godawful

#37 of 216 Paul_Scott

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Posted June 17 2005 - 06:13 AM

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you're about to see one of the most hated episodes of the entire series... "Beer Bad".

Posted Image


(man, that ep was annoying)

#38 of 216 Josh-F

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Posted June 17 2005 - 06:26 AM

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quote:you're about to see one of the most hated episodes of the entire series... "Beer Bad".



"Beer Bad" sucks. However, in all fairness to the show, he's not far from one of the top few episodes in "Hush."

#39 of 216 DaveGTP

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Posted June 17 2005 - 09:52 AM

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I am so in the minority with this. I enjoyed Angel on The WB, but have never felt the desire to get the episodes on DVD, whereas with Buffy, even the lesser seasons, I was more than anxious to own. Most Angel episodes I watched once and it was more than enough, I have seen every BTVS episode at least twice.

Ahh. See you speak of watching each "episode". Posted Image Us B5 viewers drool over the arc-based storytelling (along with some great characters that change quite a bit) that makes the show so great. It's not about great episodes (although there are some). It's about the great story it tells in long multi-season arcs. Posted Image

So to me, the emphasis more on arc-based storytelling of Angel far surpasses the arcs that Buffy has IMO. Buffy is more like B5 S2...a mix of important episodes and filler to keep audiences happy. Angel is more like B5 S3-4...more arcs, less filler Posted Image

Besides, Angel has some story arcs that kinda go from season to season, whereas Buffy tends to have individual season arcs. Although Angel adheres to this format kinda too, I feel it has a little more cohesive long-term story. Buffy tends to feel like each season they got together and said "hmmm. Who's the big bad this season?" and run from there with it. Posted Image
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#40 of 216 David Williams

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Posted June 17 2005 - 01:13 PM

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(I'm a continuity whore)

"I'm not just the President of the Club for Continuity Whores, I'm also a client." Posted Image

I can forgive mountains of mistakes in a show as long as the TPTB pay homage at the Altar of Continuity. Shows like Star Trek: Enterprise make me cranky when they don't respect their 'universe'. Joss et al have always been smart in this regard, however (even though things got a little hazy over in Angel land, re: Darla, etc.)
"Only two things are infinite––the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe." ––Albert Einstein


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