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InFocus 'acceptable missing pixels'?


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20 replies to this topic

#1 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRow

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Posted June 05 2005 - 09:58 PM

Based on the great reviews here I have an InFocus 4805. There is one missing pixel that appears as a black spot on white backgrounds that has developed. InFocus service is claiming "4 or 5 pixels" have to be out to be a problem.

Anyone here experienced this nonsense? I paid for all the pixels and I would like to not have to see my movies with one missing.

I would appreciate any comments on this from this knowledgable group.

Thanks and Regards.

#2 of 21 OFFLINE   KenLeBlanc

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Posted June 05 2005 - 11:40 PM

OMG are you serious ? I would be pissed. I don't own a projector but if I paid that kind of money and had a bad pixel, they'd better replace it Posted Image

Who did you speak to ? I would definitly escalate things with a manager or whatever needs to be done.

#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted June 06 2005 - 01:53 AM

Greetings

There is a big difference between your expectation (realistic or unrealistic) and manufacturing spec.

We'd all like things to be perfect, but no where on the product was perfection promised.

Heat tiles also keep falling off space shuttles ...

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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
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#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 06 2005 - 02:57 AM

When and where did you buy it? Depending on that you may be able to return it. If it from an unauthorized dealer then of course you are out of luck. Check out exactly what the waranty says. Of course it will not say "all pixels are covered" but if it simply says something to the effect of "machine should work problem free for 2 years" then it is up to the manufactor to decide what constitutes a problem. With that said......your machine does have a problem. DLP's do not get the missing pixels or dead pixels that LCD's get. What they can get is a stuck mirror. I would think they would cover that. This is where I differ from what Michael says. Yes our expectations are all different but a stuck mirror in a DLP unit IS a defect. It has nothing to do with people's claim that everything needs to be perfect. Also not sure about the space shuttle analogy.....considering that people died because of heat tiles falling off a space shuttle......that seems like a pretty insensitive remark and why anyone would equate that to a stuck pixel is beyond me......To each there own I guess.

At any rate, I would really try to move up the ladder at Infocus to get the problem resolved and ask them where in your literature it says that they will only fix the unit if it has 5 stuck pixels. Best of luck to you.

#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted June 06 2005 - 03:35 AM

Greetings

Dead mirrors on DLPs do occur. Why would only LCDs have dead or stuck pixels?

Dead mirrors on DLPs look like water marks.

There are 500,000 mirrors to 1,000,000 mirrors on these things.

The space shuttle analogy is meant to point out that people build these things and putting billions and billions of dollars into something does not mean you will get perfection. Stuff happens. It has nothing to do with astronauts dying (a tragedy in itself) ... since tiles have been falling off shuttles since the first launch.

Since when was it decided that spending $2000 guaranteed you a perfect product where mirrors might not fail? Why can't I have a $400 TV with perfect geometry? Why is spending more a guarantee of perfection?

$120000 TV'a are not perfect either ... nor are $250K cars.

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#6 of 21 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 06 2005 - 04:53 AM

Michael, are you saying that a stuck mirror or a dead pixel is not a defect?? Especially in waranty?? Surely in your line of work you must understand that. A louder than normal fan, or even a bit of a whine for a color wheel would fall under the "just the nature of the beast" category for me.......but how often do you hear of a dead pixel with DLP?? Dead pixels is inherent to the LCD technology.......surely you understand this as well......if you don't....research.

Again....to each there own about the shuttle analogy.....

#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted June 06 2005 - 05:10 AM

hi

My 2 cents.

In the display industry (both PC and HT) dead pixels are not considered a defect, though I would not personally want a unit with dead pixels.

Some manufacturers guarantee no dead pixels. ie: Runco. You pay a premimum for this. Other companies, like www.tvauthority.com realize the importance of a dead pixel policy and actually sell their product with a 5 star guarantee, with one of the stars being a no dead pixel policy.

Best wishes

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#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 06 2005 - 05:46 AM

Yeah, that does make sence Greg. The thing that stinks though is if something like that pops up and it is of course very bothersome and in all reality....it is a defect...if the company recognizes it or not. When someone reads the waranty and sees that defects are covered for 2 years only to find out that "defect" is not....it can leave a bad taste in anyones mouth. I do understand exactly what you are saying though and I know you are right.....it just stinks that you are right in this guys case LOL Posted Image.....

#9 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted June 06 2005 - 07:34 AM

A few years ago Runco was using Pioneer plasmas for one of the Runco sizes. Basically they would remove the pioneer casing and then add the Runco casing. They did do some software tweeking. During this process Runco was rejecting 25% of the panels that they received from Pioneer as they did not meet Runco's higher standards. These 25% of panels met all of Pioneer's quality requirements and would not be repaired via warranty channels. If you bought a refurbed Pioneer panel there would be a good chance that it would be one of these rejected units.

Good luck dealing with Infocus. You will have to find somebody both really nice and very high up the food chain to have your unit replaced for dead pixels.

Regards

Gregg

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#10 of 21 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 06 2005 - 08:21 AM

How long have you owned it?????

If within 2 months, I'd see what the retailer had to say about it.

I no longer will buy from a retailer without a 30 days no questions asked return policy, and often I have had these same retailers still go for exchange to about the 60 day mark.

#11 of 21 OFFLINE   Evan M.

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Posted June 06 2005 - 09:04 AM

Quote:
I no longer will buy from a retailer without a 30 days no questions asked return policy, and often I have had these same retailers still go for exchange to about the 60 day mark.






Yep....exactly what I do too now. I will not buy anything unless I can return it.....when someplace even says...."You can return it in 30 days but there is a restocking fee.".....I usually say...."Thank you for your time, I'll have to think about it..." Then that is usually the last time a talk to them.

#12 of 21 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 06 2005 - 09:46 AM

Man, that 30 day thing even with Netailers, has saved me so many times.....

I don't even complain about any particular issue, I just tell them I want to return it, case closed.

#13 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRow

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Posted June 07 2005 - 10:10 AM

Update as of 6/7/05. Called back again spoke to customer service and now a "case" has been opened. I don't know what to expect yet but I am NOT going to let this simply die as I will continue to make noise up to whatever level is needed to get some satisfaction.

I refuse to accept a sub-standard product and as of now that is what I consider this particular example of the 4805 that I had the misforture to receive.

Return is not an option as I had this in advance of my completion of the room in order to properly configure things. Had I even expected that this problem was a possibility I would have not considered this brand or model.

JR

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Travis_R

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Posted June 07 2005 - 06:05 PM

Honestly you are the only person I have heard complain about the 4805 with a dead pixel, it sux that they are treatin you like that, but anyway, I have heard that tuning to a channel that doesnt broadcast IE. a snowy station and leaving it on for about 2-4 hours can loosen a stuck pixel, something about the black and white causing the mirrors to turn on and off will free it up, had a freind try it on an X1 he got off ebay and it worked

#15 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRow

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Posted June 08 2005 - 01:04 PM

Travis, thank you for the suggestion but I am happy to report that it will not be necessary. InFocus has taken the issue on and my case has resulted in a RMA that will have them fix the missing pixel.

For the other folks here I suggest that taking no for an answer is not always the way to go. I was firm in my request that this matter be handled and, while it did take some pushing, it is now being dealt with. I just think that a warranty is there to put a product back 'as new' for the duration of the time offered and I stuck to that in my dealing with InFocus. It paid off this time so far, and I do know it does not always work that way with other goods. I have a Volvo story that would amaze a lot of folks.

Anyway, the 4805 is going in 'one more time' and I truly hope it's the last time it will ever be needed as I do truly enjoy the unit.

One more update when the results are all in.

Once again, thank you all for the insight and support.

Regards,

JR

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Wayde_R

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Posted June 08 2005 - 11:10 PM

Sony doesn't cover the dead pixel either by their documentation. Most manufacturers won't.

You have to look for a retailer willing to replace your LCD projector with a dead pixel, it's important to work with your retailer on an understanding that you can take it back if you don't like the picture. Most smaller TV shops will do this. Beware of e-tailers in this regard.
Happy Halloween!

Wayde Robson

#17 of 21 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted June 09 2005 - 12:37 AM

awesome to hear!!

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#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Mike Boniferro

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Posted June 12 2005 - 02:47 PM

I've seen tons of dead dlp, lcd and plasma pixels. It is a problem inherent to all fixed pixel display technologies. you are talking about close to 1 million mirrors on tiny motors when it comes to dlp. It is very realistic that their will be problems.
A good example of this is at Best Buy here that has TONS of opened box playstation portable units. They apparently all have dead pixels! Sony will not cover this (I know it's lcd), so retailers are stuck with it.
That just shows that it's important to know how long you have to return a product before you purchase it.
Most retailers should also have considerations for someone who buys an expensive product from them and then has problems after finishing his room and it's been in the box the whole time. I'd try to explore that route.

#19 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnRow

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Posted June 13 2005 - 05:43 AM

Mike, thanks. InFocus has stepped up and I hope this will be resolved in the next few days. The unit is in their hands now so I'm looking forward to getting it back.

I will be much more aware of this in the future as I did find out about all this stuff the 'hard way'.

Once I get the unit back I'll update the group.

Regards,

John R

#20 of 21 OFFLINE   Brian Corr

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Posted June 14 2005 - 02:25 AM

Good luck.
I sent mine back for a stuck pixel and it came back with the same stuck pixel. All they did was clean it, so they said.