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Is my Pioneer 6.1 ready for REAL 7.1 when it arrives?


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#1 of 8 OFFLINE   Matt*B

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Posted June 03 2005 - 12:09 AM

Hello,

Ok -- I have a question. I just bought the Pioneer VSX-515-K (you can see the exact specs here: http://www.pioneerel....etailComponent). It's advertised as 6.1 on the box. But many times in the manual it mentiones how to set it up for 7.1. It also has 2 (two) seperate jacks for L and R BACK surrounds (centers) in addition to the traditional L and R rear. That is the 7.1 layout as far as i know.... Now this also has the Pro-Logic IIx. So does that mean it will support 7.1 when it's available (that is, independant L and R back surrounds?). Doesn't pro-Logic always mean simulated? Or am I wrong... I am just curious, because as I mentioned, i bought this for 6.1, but between the hook-ups and the manual, it makes it seem like it is capable of handling 7.1 when it comes to DVD....


Thanks,

Matt!
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#2 of 8 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted June 03 2005 - 04:26 AM

There probably never will be a true 7.1. Your receiver is ready though. You will need an external amp to do it however.

IIx is simulated, but it is intended to create a more separate sound for each side of the rear channels, as opposed to them playing exactly the same thing in a current "normal" 7.1 setup.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

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#3 of 8 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted June 03 2005 - 03:33 PM

A few points.

Pioneer's page for the 515k

Dolby Prologic II expands stereo signals to 5.1 channels. DPL IIx expands this technique to encompass 6.1 and 7.1 channels. It also expands 5.1 signals to 6.1 or 7.1, using algorithms similar in spirit to the THX-EX/Dolby Digital EX/DTS-ES programs of old.

It has a set of binding posts for the extra rear surround. The fact that Pioneer only hypes 6 channels may be a (very strange) marketing ploy-- ">100 watts of power across our entire line". It may be somewhat weaker with the seventh channel enabled.

Finally, the back panel looks like a real mess-- hook up a dvd-a player, and you've got cables snaking every which way. (The R/L cables go one place, the C/Lfe/Rs/Ls in quite another, and the Y/Cr/Cb in yet another)

On the other hand, one buys these things for aureal, rather than visual aesthetics.

I have no idea what wma9 pro is, nor do I much care, but apparently it has a 7.1 capability.

#4 of 8 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted June 04 2005 - 01:47 AM

Quote:
I have no idea what wma9 pro is, nor do I much care, but apparently it has a 7.1 capability.

It's a Windows Media File CODEC that's built into the receiver. I haven't really played too much with WMA files, but I suspect quite similar to MP3 files - compressed and with sound comprimises. No thanks.
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#5 of 8 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted June 04 2005 - 03:47 AM

Quote:
It has a set of binding posts for the extra rear surround.

Yes, but per his description, it also has a set of L and R preamp outputs for 7.1. Nearly all 6.1 receivers with preamp outputs I've seen have this feature.

Quote:
THX-EX/Dolby Digital EX/DTS-ES programs of old

Of OLD? These are the latest formats on the consumer market. (THX is not a format though).
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#6 of 8 OFFLINE   JeremyErwin

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Posted June 04 2005 - 07:31 AM

Quote:
Of OLD? These are the latest formats on the consumer market. (THX is not a format though).

I'm kidding. However, such algorithms predate Dolby Prologic IIx and DTS Neo:6, both of which can be used to extract/simulate those back surround channels. I'm not sure of the practical difference.

THX co-designed Dolby Digital EX, and the first implementation of the Dolby Digital EX in the home was available solely in the form of THX-EX. THX has tweaked their algorithms over the years. Their web propaganda takes a dim view of imitators.

Quote:
Yes, but per his description, it also has a set of L and R preamp outputs for 7.1. Nearly all 6.1 receivers with preamp outputs I've seen have this feature.

The 515 has a single pre-out jack: SUB WOOFER Pre-Out. Full 7.1 PreOuts are , however available on the VSX-815. (The pioneer website has large images of the various back panels)

Hmm. The back panel image for the 515 shows 7 pairs of binding posts. The quartet labeled "Surround Back, L&R" contains this warning
"SINGLE -- See Instruction Manual". I'm almost tempted to register at the Pioneer website, but not quite..

#7 of 8 OFFLINE   John Garcia

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Posted June 04 2005 - 11:38 AM

I didn't take a look at the back panel. "Single" would likely indicate they are a single channel, or internally wired series or parallel and/or impedance matched, meaning it would not be a good idea to try to drive two moderately current hungry speakers via these outputs.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#8 of 8 OFFLINE   LanceJ

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Posted June 04 2005 - 07:30 PM

DTS-ES description (my emphasis):

Quote:
Extended Surround adds a center-surround channel to the existing 5.1- channel array. DTS-ES brings these soundtracks into the home in DTS quality and is the only home format that can deliver all 6.1-channels discretely. DTS-ES is fully compatible with all types of multi-channel systems. All sounds will be heard, whether played back as discrete, matrix or on a 5.1 system.

Matrixed formats are "messier" i.e. less accurate than a format that uses an entirely separate data stream for the additional channel.


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