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Big Screen Fatigue or Is My DLP Hurting My Eyes?


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#1 of 18 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted June 02 2005 - 08:45 AM

[I'm just overwhelmed right now! Too much info to process!]

Finally jumped on the wagon and picked up a Tosh 52HM84. I am the envy of everyone I know. Yet, as the title states, I believe I am having some problems with it. I can't put my finger on what it is about it but I believe it's bothering my eyes. I feel stress at the inner points of my eyes (near the nose) when I watch most times. Sometimes I don't feel affected at all.

Yes, I can see rainbows sometimes, usually when my eyes dart from one point of the screen to another. I can't say these really bother me, but part of me says that for $2500 I shouldn't be having ANY issues with the image.

I don't know if RBE is causing eyestrain; that I've gone up from 27" to 52" and I'm having problems adjusting to the much bigger size; that the image is so much brighter and sharper... My eyes are also a bit on the abnormal side -- they work independantly of each other and I only use one eye at a time while my brain ignores the other's input (born cross eyed) so perhaps the TV is making my eyes work in a different manner than they're used to.

I've tried moving my seat back about a foot so I'm a good 13/14 feet away and that doesn't seem to help. My wife isn't bothered by the set at all.

I'm thinking of moving to the Sony KDF55WF655 but I am hesitant in case it's not DLP related and this is something that's going to happen with all big TVs. I can't really sit in the store and watch TV for an hour to see if it happens.

So, I'm asking if others have bought DLPs but had problems watching them and what they're solution is. Also, if anyone can point me to a decent review site/s for the Sony TV. Googling only brings up the usual suspects -- cnet, pricegrabber, amazon, etc. I want techie info which might mention potentinal LCD downfalls and how this set handles them that I might not be aware of and would rather not find out about when it's sitting in my living room.

Thanks,

-paul

#2 of 18 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted June 02 2005 - 10:13 AM

Greetings

Put up a 100 ire windowbox from a test disc and look at it.

If the light output of that pattern hurts your eyes ... your contrast is too too high. Reduce it to a point where it does not hurt your eyes.

Eye strain will diminish somewhat after that. Also add back lighting ...

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#3 of 18 OFFLINE   Kevin C Brown

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Posted June 02 2005 - 12:40 PM

Similarly, have you at least Avia'ed (DVE'ed) it yet?

I would think that 13-14' for a 52" display is fine.

Are you using some kind of stretch mode at all for std def material? I personally get headaches with modes that leave the center of the screen alone, and only stretch the edges.
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#4 of 18 OFFLINE   Dave>h

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Posted June 03 2005 - 12:23 AM

HI,

I had a similar experience to yours when I first got my Samsung DLP. I found watching it very fatigueing after a few hours when I first got the TV. And I too thought it might have something to do with the RBE. However, once I calibrated the TV and got used to the size of it (went from 27" to 61"), the eye strain has completely gone away.

I wasn't born cross eyed, so I can't say whether that is the problem but eye strain definitely diminished over time for me.

Hope that helps a little.

Regards

Dave

#5 of 18 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted June 03 2005 - 07:43 AM

It's definately the nature of DLP. While the rainbows aren't *clearly* evident I can certainly sense them. I could easily pick out which were the DLPs from the displays at the CC and BBs I went to today.

So I'm looking for something else now. I'm starting a new thread on the Sony 55WF655.

Thanks all.

-paul

#6 of 18 OFFLINE   Dave Miller

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Posted June 04 2005 - 09:25 PM

I had eye strain too when I first got my Tosh 65h80 several years ago, but adding back lighting solved the problem. The Keohi website has some great info about back lighting. I went the Home Depot route. The good news is you don't have to spend a lot of money to solve this problem.

Peace,

DM
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#7 of 18 OFFLINE   PeterK

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Posted June 05 2005 - 01:45 AM

I really doubt it's the size of the screen. It should not be overwhelming at all at 14' away. Tell me, do you get this feeling when you go the theatres? Also, if your really concerned whether the Sony will be any different, I see know problem in sitting in the store, especially if it's an AV store and not BB or CC for >1 hour to see if your eyes are sore. If I was worried that it would affect me I might want to watch several movies in the store. (After a quick calibration of course)
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#8 of 18 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 05 2005 - 04:33 AM

It may be brightness, and it may be rainbows.

I am going to disagree with Michael though, you should not lower the white level if it's too bright, as you will be reducing your contrast range on a display that already has a limited range. Rather, you should use a neutral density filter to lower the light output to your desired level and maintain the current maximized(assuming you calibrated correctly to maximize white and black points on this type of display) contrast range.

You may also get used to the rainbows over time. If you can see the rainbows, it's most likely that is a contributing factor as well to your fatigue. I get fatigued on single-chip displays quite easily, you may be one who similarly can see these artifacts easily.

#9 of 18 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 05 2005 - 07:09 AM

I agree with chris about your possible dlp sensitivity causing your eye strain. I was really affected with this symptom and even with 5x colour wheel speed dlp projectors. I switched over to lcd front projection and can now watch my 106" picture for endless amounts of time.The lcd unit just seems very relaxing for me to watch. Loved my dlp but my lcd even more. Posted Image

#10 of 18 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted June 05 2005 - 05:49 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions (ignoring the somewhat condesending one).

As I posted earlier, it was clearly a case of, as frankinG put it "DLP sensitivity." After returning to BB and CC to take another look at sets I could clearly tell just by glancing which were DLP displays. I didn't notice rainbows at all during my inital in store viewing, nor for maybe 90m after having the Tosh at home. Then suddenly I started to notice them and it got progresively worse. I didn't mention it to my wife to see if she would comment but she didn't.

I traded to Tosh for Sony's 55WF655 and have not had a single case of fatigue since. I see the SDE (i recall reading somewhere that if someone could see it from 14' away they were full of it) -- it looks like the screen is dusty and is most evident on large area solid color images -- like cartoons. I don't think the image is as crisp as the DLP but it's the best option for me.

-paul

#11 of 18 OFFLINE   Kenneth Harden

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Posted June 05 2005 - 05:57 PM

Quote:
Thanks for all the suggestions (ignoring the somewhat condesending one).


Ohhhh, thats COLD Posted Image

#12 of 18 OFFLINE   ChrisWiggles

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Posted June 05 2005 - 06:12 PM

glad you got things figured out, nothing is worse than a fatiguing display! Enjoy! Posted Image

#13 of 18 OFFLINE   John S

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Posted June 06 2005 - 06:00 AM

I have always experienced less fatigue from larger screen size. I am a rainbow see'r and probably will not own DLP because of it.

#14 of 18 OFFLINE   Andrew Grall

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Posted June 07 2005 - 02:42 AM

Quote:
I see the SDE (i recall reading somewhere that if someone could see it from 14' away they were full of it)


If you are seeing something from 14' away, it is not the SDE. It may be what is known as the silk screen effect (SSE). It is somewhat similar, but it is much more noticable on bright white scenes. I notice this from time to time on my Sony 60XS955, but it bothers me far less than the fatigue that DLP is capable of causing.

#15 of 18 OFFLINE   frankinG

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Posted June 07 2005 - 11:52 AM

Andrew hit the nail right on the head with the sse effect. At 14' screen door with all the newer projectors is really not an issue. My panasonic 700 dictates what andrew described, which is a odd looking silk screen effect especially on white high contrast areas. It is only occasionaly noticable and not bothersome to me.Posted Image

#16 of 18 OFFLINE   Allan Jayne

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Posted June 07 2005 - 02:30 PM

Some people's eyes are sensitive to the fact that red, green, and blue content is flashed one subimage at a time on the screen.

Some people's eyes are sensitive to the 24 frame per second motion of film source subject material on a large screen that spans most of the field of vision. This sensitivity may or may not be increased when viewing movies on film, where there is a moment of darkness between frames, actually 48 dark moments per second because each frame is given two short flashes rather than one long flash to help reduce flicker to most people.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.c...ynejr/video.htm
.

#17 of 18 OFFLINE   Doug Miller

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Posted June 07 2005 - 02:43 PM

I originally bought the Samsung DLP and had similar issues. I found that my eyes got tired, in addition to seeing the rainbows (primarily when the lights were off). I went to the 42in Sony LCD and haven't looked back. There are times the lack of a true black does stand out -- horror movies with the lights out are a little bright, but I've got it tweaked to a point that it's very close, at least close enough for me.

There are a lot of great things about DLP - My father in law has one and loves it. It just didn't work for me, and it sounds like you're having similar problems.

Doug

#18 of 18 OFFLINE   Paul D G

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Posted June 07 2005 - 06:32 PM

Can someone define SSE for me please? I've looked for definitions and everyone says it's a "sparkling or glistening most often seen in bright images". This is not what I am seeing. I am seeing a fixed... something... on the screen as if you were watching a tv badly in need of dusting. I would think that the space between pixels is visible to me, which, from my understanding, is what SDE is.

-paul





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