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Quantum Leap S3 - music changed!


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#21 of 45 Carlo S

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Posted May 08 2005 - 11:51 PM

Well after my problems I have had with the Knight Rider S2 box sets, I have been put off buying any further releases from Universal (well the R1 releases anyway that is).

If anyone does get it do tell the condition of the DVDs. I Would really like to know.

#22 of 45 Edward Schatz

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Posted May 11 2005 - 11:49 AM

I enjoy how Universal placed "Music may differ from televised version" or something to that effect in small print on the back at the bottom. Only someone who cares would notice, which I guess is the right decision on Universal's part to sell it. If it had "MUSIC REPLACED" smacked on the front their sales would decrease. Regardless, I will not be buying this. Bah.
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#23 of 45 Gord Lacey

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Posted May 11 2005 - 03:26 PM

Edward, most companies are handling the "music replaced" situation with small disclaimers. I think the Married...With Children season 3 disclaimer was a lot bigger than normal.

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#24 of 45 Greg_S_H

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Posted May 11 2005 - 03:37 PM

More from Al's Place:

Quote:
At the end of "The Leap Home, Part II" I recall hearing "I Wish It Would Rain" (by The Temptations IIRC) before the big reveal and the score music kicks in. On the DVD it's peppy generic sax music in the background.

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#25 of 45 Paul Sandhu

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Posted May 11 2005 - 06:19 PM

I know it sucks that the music has been replaced.... but for me its better than nothing.

#26 of 45 Edward Schatz

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Posted May 11 2005 - 06:27 PM

I respectfully disagree. While it may be "better than nothing," buying it supports the practice in my opinion. You can spin it any way you want, not buying it gives them the sense people don't want it, therefore don't put out more, etc. I just won't give them my money for a half product.
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#27 of 45 James Reader

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Posted May 11 2005 - 09:25 PM

Quote:
I respectfully disagree. While it may be "better than nothing," buying it supports the practice in my opinion. You can spin it any way you want, not buying it gives them the sense people don't want it, therefore don't put out more, etc. I just won't give them my money for a half product.


But what would happen if Universal did pay the money for the offending music? The price of the set would go up, and would most likely result in fewer sales. Perhaps all of the seasons wouldn't be released as a result.

Meanwhile, having their (possibly - we can't really say as we don't know the full facts) outrageous demands for fees met by a major Hollywood studio, music rights owners would have no incentive to lower their asking price for future TV on DVD releases. In fact, their incentive would be to ask for more money next time. This the price of season sets would most likely go up again as a result.

We do know that the rights owners of the Married with Children theme (Love and Marriage) were asking outrageous money to licence the music to Sony. After Sony paid the money for the first two seasons, they obviously thought they could get away with asking more for subsequent series. Especially as the music was "essential" - being the theme song. I'm glad Sony refused to pay. While I often see people claiming greed by the studios is the reason, I never see people claiming greed by the music holders. Submiting to music holder's greed will only result in an upward spiral of costs.

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#28 of 45 Christian Preischl

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:03 AM

The picture I'm seeing is that they even reduced the SRP by 10 bucks for season 3! I wonder how much music 10 bucks per set could have saved.

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#29 of 45 Randy_Cre

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:07 AM

I keep hearing maybe they won't release the rest of the shows... I understand the logic for the "better than nothing" people.

As someone who isn't buying these altered sets.... I frankly don't care if it means Universal doesn't release the rest of the series... If Universal does release the rest of the series, I wouldn't want the remaining seasons either because its pretty much guaranteed that Universal is going to be issuing more of the "better than nothing" altered sets.

I'm a huge fan of QL, so the show was on my must buy list.... But I'm not going to spend money on sets that are going to piss me off every time it plays a scene with Muzak inserted into it.

So if not buying these ruined sets means that Universal won't release more ruined sets... that's no great loss in my opinion.

Conversely, supporting these releases pretty much ensures Universal (and maybe others) will continue the practice of replacing music (almost excessively as Universal has done replacing almost every thing not sung by a character).

I really don't care who bears the majority of the blame, the studios or the rights holders. But they need to work it out if they want MY money. However, Universal's handling of Quantum Leap does not seem to have anything similiar to the Married with Children issue, where ONE song had issues because of an outrageous demand. QL's changes are widespred throughout the sets, so I can see why many are faulting Universal in this case rather than the positive attitude many had towards Columbia in the MWC situation.

#30 of 45 James Reader

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:29 AM

Yes, but Christian have you asked why the RRP has been reduced by $10?

Studios generally do do research on potential sales vs cost issues. Retail prices are not plucked out of a hat, they are carefully considered on a sales/financial return basis. Remember members of this forum have sometimes reported on being involved in such surveys, which contain everything from packaging preferences to prices. If Universal feel the need to drop the price of Quantum Leap S3, it could just as easily be because they hope it will improve sales rather then be bacause S2 had too many sales.

As for Universal and music replacements, I don't think it is fair to single them out - especially when comparing it to Columbia and MWC. After all, Columbia also release Tour of Duty do they not? All of the studios releasing archive (and sometimes not so archived) TV content on DVD have resorted to subsituting music at some point or another.

I also understand that the replaced music on QL S3 is way down on the number of subsitutions on S2.
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#31 of 45 Edward Schatz

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:50 AM

I would gladly let them take my money for the appropriate music. People did, after all, pay 100+ USD for Star Trek: TNG seasons and that had no music to license. $35 is nice, but I don't really care since I won't be buying it anyway.
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#32 of 45 Randy_Cre

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:54 AM

If I understand correctly, the rights holders increased their demands after agreeing to a different cost for the first two seasons. I could be wrong but my understanding of the MWC theme issue was that the studio balked at a higher demand when they opened discussions for season 3.

(I wouldn't find this surprising, as I'm sure studios are reluctant to agree to a price for an entire series when so many shows never get beyond the 1st or 2nd season release.)

I'm sure that other studios are doing the same, Universal being largely singled out because this is a QL thread. (Though Universal also removed Northern Exposure from my buy list by replacing music in that also, and I fear will follow the same pattern with Miami Vice.)

Personally, I'm not lowering my expectations when it comes spending MY money. If QL sets are without substitution, like S1, then I'll buy those sets. Same goes for Northern Exposure. But music replacements = no sale for me (MWC included even if it is 'just' the theme song). ... I'd rather support 'un-authorized' versions intact, than 'authorized' versions that are butchered.

#33 of 45 James Reader

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Posted May 12 2005 - 02:54 AM

Quote:
I would gladly let them take my money for the appropriate music. People did, after all, pay 100+ USD for Star Trek: TNG seasons and that had no music to license. $35 is nice, but I don't really care since I won't be buying it anyway.

Well, some people may have, but over here in the UK they're commonly found selling for less than half of their original retail price. Which indicates that they didn't sell as many as they anticipated. And of course, Star Trek as a much stronger following than Quantum Leap.

I really don't think it would be viable for Universal to sell Quantumn Leap with a manufacturers price of over $50

Quote:
If I understand correctly, the rights holders increased their demands after agreeing to a different cost for the first two seasons. I could be wrong but my understanding of the MWC theme issue was that the studio balked at a higher demand when they opened discussions for season 3.

Yes. But if rights holders see that the demand exists, what do you think that are going to do, en mass? They're all going to assume that they have studios over a barrel and demand more money (just like they did with Love and Marriage). Not all of the greed is coming from the studios. Giving in to outrageous demands now will only encourage more in the future.
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#34 of 45 Christian Preischl

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Posted May 12 2005 - 04:00 AM

Quote:
I also understand that the replaced music on QL S3 is way down on the number of subsitutions on S2.
So far I haven't seen anything that suggests that. In season 2 they replaced every single song that wasn't performed by a character or referred to by name. (Exceptions: Georgia on my Mind, which actually wasreferred to by name, just not in the same scene, and the music in episodes previously released on VHS and laserdisc. Those remained unaltered.)
As far as I can tell the same is the case with season 3. Everything went unless it's performed or mentioned by name.

Quote:
Yes, but Christian have you asked why the RRP has been reduced by $10?

Studios generally do do research on potential sales vs cost issues.
Agreed. Music probably didn't have anything to do with it. As has been mentioned in another thread, season 2 releases of any show generally sell in significantly lower numbers than the first season. Third seasons are even worse. I guess that's why they dropped the price. They did the same with Magnum and Columbo (the latter was reduced by a whopping 20 bucks), even though those two shows don't have any music replaced... yet.

There's three things that keep bothering me. Two in regards to QL especially, and one with music replacements in general.

1) With Quantum Leap you can't disregard the fact that Universal themselves admitted that a main reason (not the only one, mind you) for the music changes on season 2 were because they were surprised by the strong sales of season 1 (proving that people were willing to accept an SRP of 60$ for half a season!) and wanted to get the next season out as fast as possible. The fact that season 3's music suffers the same fate only tells me that sales were good enough for them to continue the way they did. And I'm sure the lower SRP will help, too.

2) There's the fact that the music changes on season 3 still exhibit the same lack of care as the previous one, namely replacing well known songs with crappy stock music probably taken out of Universal's own library. At least with the changes on other shows like Roswell and Married with Children and Dawson's Creek (up until season 5 when they started cutting) some care was taken when choosing the replacements.

3) Finally, I still don't understand how Warner can release almost all of their shows without any music changes (exceptions do apply of course), at similar prices. I know each show, heck each single episode of each show, is a different animal and you can't really compare e.g. Smallville to Northern Exposure (the number of sold items being the main difference)... but I still can't help but wonder.

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#35 of 45 James Reader

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Posted May 12 2005 - 04:20 AM

Quote:
With Quantum Leap you can't disregard the fact that Universal themselves admitted that a main reason (not the only one, mind you) for the music changes on season 2 were because they were surprised by the strong sales of season 1 (proving that people were willing to accept an SRP of 60$ for half a season!) and wanted to get the next season out as fast as possible. The fact that season 3's music suffers the same fate only tells me that sales were good enough for them to continue the way they did. And I'm sure the lower SRP will help, too.

That may well be the case. It may just be "ongoing-sales-dropoff", but it doesn't alter the fact that Universal are selling QL for a more than reasoable price, obviously aimed at the mass-market, as they think the only way that they can balance the costs to income is by a significant number of sales.

Not so much on this thread, but various discussions in the past regarding the music issue have thrown phrases about like "Studio Greed". Well, it's not really studio greed. As you have pointed out, the price has been reduced. Universal could easily set a higher RRP and pay for; or choose not to pay for; the music rights - after all, HBO charges $100+ for most of their sets. But they also need to balance the final shelf price against potential sales. A season 3 set of Quantum Leap retailing for $110 is unlikely to sell many copies.

Quote:
2) There's the fact that the music changes on season 3 still exhibit the same lack of care as the previous one, namely replacing well known songs with crappy stock music probably taken out of Universal's own library. At least with the changes on other shows like Roswell and Married with Children and Dawson's Creek (up until season 5 when they started cutting) some care was taken when choosing the replacements.

I can't really comment on this, not having seen the set (or the second season set for that matter). But I know a lot of reviews of the S2 release did pick up on the music changes. Comments from "casual" reviewers rather than those overtly familiar with the episodes for season 3 have been much less vocal about musical subsitutions. From this I concluded that the changes were fewer, and when music is subsituted it was done with more care.

As for MWC and Dawson's Creek, well Sony also released Tour Of Duty that had massive musical subsitutions throughout, including the theme (Paint it Black). Again, like QL, ToD consisted of lots of popular period pop music, so is more of a like for like comparison over, say, The Critic or Dawson's Creek.

Quote:
3) Finally, I still don't understand how Warner can release almost all of their shows without any music changes (exceptions do apply of course), at similar prices. I know each show, heck each single episode of each show, is a different animal and you can't really compare e.g. Smallville to Northern Exposure (the number of sold items being the main difference)... but I still can't help but wonder.

Well Warner is also a music publisher itself (Universal isn't anymore), and most modern Warner shows are used to promote their musical properites. While this doesn't mean that there is no conflict of rights, potential conflict is obviously reduced. I can't really say anything about some of the archive Warner releases (but it appears Murphy Brown has most, if not all, of the Motown music intact. However, I note that there are currently no plans for more Murphy Brown releases - could the sales not have been high enough to justify the music licencing?) but its unfair to compare a modern show like Smallville to Northern Exposure. At the very least, Warner would have secured the music rights for internationsl home video sales on Smallville when the series was being filmed.
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#36 of 45 john mcfadden

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Posted May 12 2005 - 03:58 PM

Sorry , but its been so long since ive seen alot of episodes the substitutions dont bother me , except for the loss of Georgia on my mind in season 2 , because that song is played at the end of the last episode . I remember crying at the end of the show , and that song is what did it .So i understand where everybody is on the not buying issue. I buy the sets for Sam and Al , the music does set the tone , but i can let it go for having the show in my collection .

Hopefully that QL tv movie might happen sometime soon , with Scott Bacula being available .

#37 of 45 Brandon Conway

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Posted May 12 2005 - 08:14 PM

Quote:
People did, after all, pay 100+ USD for Star Trek: TNG seasons and that had no music to license.


I didn't, and I quite frankly can't afford them at that price. Neither can my brother. That's two people that would have bought 17+ seasons of Star Trek that didn't.

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#38 of 45 george kaplan

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Posted May 13 2005 - 12:38 AM

I didn't, and I quite frankly can't afford them at that price. Neither can my brother. That's two people that would have bought 17+ seasons of Star Trek that didn't.
Well I know a number of people who did buy (at least TNG) at that price, and certainly would not have if the episodes had been cut or censored, even if the price were much, much less.
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#39 of 45 Brandon Conway

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Posted May 13 2005 - 06:56 AM

I also would not buy cut or censored products.

I don't consider music replacement to be the same thing. It's in its own catagory, and to me is not something that outright disqualifies a release.

If Star Trek was priced at $50 a season and had music replaced, I'd still buy it.

It would be different if it was one studio changing music while all the others got the original music for all their releases, but this is not the case. Every studio has had to replace music on TV product at some point. I've accepted it as a necessary evil for TV on DVD products.

Like was said previously by another user, the enjoyment I get out of Quantum Leap and the two main characters overshadows any issue I have with music replacement.

I know for some it is hard to enjoy a product they know has been altered, and I empathize, but I don't think it's a poor reflection on me that I can enjoy these products despite the restrictions due to music replacement.

"And now the reprimand, from an American critic. He reproaches me for using film as a sacred & lasting medium, like a painting or a book. He does not believe that filmmaking is an inferior art, but he believes, and quite rightly, that a reel goes quickly, that the public are looking above all for relaxation, that film is fragile and that it is pretentious to express the power of one's soul by such ephemeral and delicate means, that Charlie Chaplin's or Buster Keaton's first films can only be seen on very rare and badly spoiled prints. I add that the cinema is making daily progress and that eventually films that we consider marvelous today will soon be forgotten because of new dimensions & colour. This is true. But for 4 weeks this film [The Blood of a Poet] has been shown to audiences that have been so attentive, so eager & so warm, that I wonder after all there is not an anonymous public who are looking for more than relaxation in the cinema." - Jean Cocteau, 1932


#40 of 45 Paul Sandhu

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Posted June 08 2005 - 08:28 PM

I am also enjoying this QL season. I just started the second disc. I forgot how good this show was.


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