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Upgrading receiver, but has to be from Best Buy


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#1 of 28 OFFLINE   MitchSchaft

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Posted May 01 2005 - 06:27 AM

Ok, guys, should I bother upgrading my old receiver (Sony STR-de625)? I've it had for almost 8 years I think. The 'A' channel doesn't work, but that's no big deal since I can just plug into 'B'.

I'm looking at either a Yamaha HTR-5860, 5850, or the 5890. It'll be used with a set of Boston Acousting reference series speakers, and an Athena sub. Also, a 32" sony wega flat panel I bought last year.

Overall, I'm hoping to take advantage of the optical outs for better sound quality that I can use with my DVD player.

#2 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 01 2005 - 06:52 AM

If it has to be from BB, look at the recently released Pioneer VSX-1015TX.

Its basically a stripped down Elite at a great price. The comparable Pioneer Elite streets for between $700-800. The 1015 sells for 499.99 at BB, but you might be able to get them to come down some if you talk to the manager. Or they may have last years model, the 1014 which may be found for 350 to 400.

The 1015 has a the new THX Select 2, which even the Elite line does not have yet. The Elite version has a 12V trigger, but how many people really use those triggers.

#3 of 28 OFFLINE   Will-Layfield

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Posted May 01 2005 - 07:12 AM

craig are using the 12v triggers bad?

#4 of 28 OFFLINE   brendy

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Posted May 01 2005 - 07:45 AM

The Elite line does have THX Select only ,starting with the 52x. Pardon my typo.According to the THX website only Ultra 2 has ASA.

#5 of 28 OFFLINE   MitchSchaft

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Posted May 01 2005 - 08:06 AM

Thanks for the quick replies, folks! I didn't think having a THX certified receiver was that big of a deal. I'm having a hard time finding info on the different models, so I figured I'd come ask you guys Posted Image.
This pioner would be better off than the Yamaha then?

#6 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 01 2005 - 01:49 PM

Quote:
Yes the Elite line does have THX Select 2,starting with the 52x.


No it doesn't. The 52TX does not have THX Select 2. It has the original THX Select. THX Select 2 has a new processing feature called ASA that is used in several new THX modes.

Quote:
craig are using the 12v triggers bad?

No it is not bad to use them but there is no universal standard meaning that some 12V triggers will work fine with your equipment and some won't.

Quote:
This pioner would be better off than the Yamaha then?

Well for one thing the Pioneer's MOSFET amplifier section has been measured closer to its rated output with multiple channels driven. Few of the other brands even come close.

#7 of 28 OFFLINE   VinhT

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Posted May 01 2005 - 01:56 PM

I'll be blunt and state that I believe the Pioneer 1015 is the best receiver Best Buy sells. Posted Image
Vinh Tran

#8 of 28 OFFLINE   Leigh_M

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Posted May 01 2005 - 03:27 PM

"Best" is a very personal thing. I just bought a Pioneer 1014tx to replace my Yamaha RX-V630. Based on the reviews here, I was very excited to try the Pioneer. Well, after a week of testing, the Yamaha has earned it's spot back. I just feel the Pioneer was a little too thin sounding. I could see the biggest difference with music or soundtracks.

BTW, I'm using Boston Acoustics CR speakers. So, if it were me, I would go with the Yamaha 5890.

Next I'll see how the Pioneer sounds with my axiom speakers.

#9 of 28 OFFLINE   DorianBryant

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Posted May 01 2005 - 09:21 PM

I agree. The 1014 while great features and looks, sounds flat to me and the fact that it draws 450 watts and puts out 770? How does that happen?

Still a great receiver but it is not the "be all end all" of receivers in that price range. Real world application-I felt the Onkyo 502 had as much power and more bass response-cost $150 refurbed.

I think your best bet it to buy the comparable Yammy and the Pioneer. try them both out and decide with your own ears. What sounds flat to me may sound warm to you...

#10 of 28 OFFLINE   VinhT

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Posted May 02 2005 - 01:28 AM

Leigh, I agree that "best" is indeed a personal thing. I just find Pioneer's mainstream products to offer more features and power than the competition in a similar price range. For example, I feel that Pioneer's automatic calibration and EQ, while not without bugs, is currently better than the systems offered by competing brands like HK, Yamaha, and even Denon. The power issue has been much debated, but in the end, Pioneer and HK are the only mainstream brands that I have any confidence in.

Dorian, I went to the Onkyo website and looked up the 502. I am very surprised that you consider it competitive with a current product from Pioneer. Much like how I consider the SVS PB10-ISD to be without peer in the $400 range, I feel that the 101X is indeed the "be all end all" receiver in the $500 range.

But that's just me. :b

When it comes down to it, all modern receivers are quite competent, so the primary differences are in the little details. Pick whichever and be happy.
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#11 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 02 2005 - 03:54 AM

Quote:
...the fact that it draws 450 watts and puts out 770? How does that happen?


Correction it draws 480W/600VA

You could say this for virtually all receivers on the market. The new Yamaha HTR5890 draws 500W, but puts out 840W. Yamaha specs no diffrently than Pioneer or any other of the manufacturers.

Granted though the more you spend the quality/capability of the power supplies goes up.

For price to performance, the 1014/1015 represent one of the best values on the market right now.

Remember you have to double your power to get a 3dB increase in loudness.

#12 of 28 OFFLINE   DorianBryant

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Posted May 02 2005 - 09:47 AM

Vin-I don't think the 502 competes feature wise. Yet power wise it held its own. I wanted the 1014 to bury it. I just wasn't impressed like I had hoped.

Craig,

The HK 235 draws 770 watts and is rated to push 50 watts per channel. I think this is the best around $500. As Vinh said we are not talking ground braking differences.

I am not knocking the 1014 but dissappointed. I really wanted it to work. Yet I did not think the sound quality was as good as other receivers i have used nor would it work with my DN receiver.

#13 of 28 OFFLINE   MitchSchaft

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Posted May 02 2005 - 10:52 AM

You guys have been a lot of help so far! I went ahead and got myself the 5890 last night. Got it all set up, speakers calibrated, etc... and watched me some Punisher Posted Image. I'm thoroughly impressed so far and it is a huge step up in sound quality compared to the old, junky Sony.
I'm none too concerned about rated power output. I turn the volume up and it gets louder Posted Image. With no noise I must mention. During quiet parts with my old receiver, you could hear the hiss from all the speakers from anywhere you sit. It's absolutely quiet with the new guy. I went ahead with the coax sound cable, so maybe that's why it's absolutely silent :P.

Also, the sub is doing what it's supposed to compared to the old receiver. It mixes great with the rest of the speakers.

I'm not used to having eleventy-thousand "sound fields" to play with, so that will be interesting. What are ya'lls view concerning those?

#14 of 28 OFFLINE   Ted Lee

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Posted May 02 2005 - 11:45 AM

good call on the yammie. i work at bb and myself own the 5790. i think it's a top-notch receiver.

as far as dsp modes go, i think yamaha (in general) does it better then most. one thing they do is actually go to carnegie hall (or wherever) and put microphones all over the place. they take those measurements and utilize them when designing the dsp modes -- bottom line is they're very realistic.

that being said, i rarely use them. if you do, use them based upon how well they sound to you...not how they're named. Posted Image
 

#15 of 28 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted May 02 2005 - 12:11 PM

Quote:
Well for one thing the Pioneer's MOSFET amplifier section has been measured closer to its rated output with multiple channels driven. Few of the other brands even come close.
DO NOT get so caught up in watts. If memory serves, even the nicest receivers costing over $1000 put out only 11-18 watts while being played at or near reference levels. If you were in the same room w/ a receiver putting out let's say 50 watts of power through its speakers, you'd literally be passed out on the floor w/ blood coming out of your ears. In a real world listening environment, a receiver that puts out 35-40 watts w/ all 7 channels being driven is more than enough for all but the most demanding, power hungry speakers. That's why even though the Pioneer 1015 may rate higher in a particular test w/ so many channels driven than a Yamaha 5890, in real world listening tests many may tell you that they actually prefer the sound and perceived power of the Yamaha receiver and vice versa. The same w/ Denon, H/K, Sony, and any other brand.

What does this tell us?....That watts per channel doesn't tell the whole story. If the Pioneer 1015 rates so highly w/ all channels (or most) driven, it should be leagues above a comparable Yamaha HTR-5890 (that the same people say rates lower than the Pioneer). But when you place both receivers side by side in the same room w/ the same speakers, that just isn't the case at all. Some will prefer the Yamaha, some will like the Pioneer, and others will tell you that they can't tell a difference at all. Personally, I, too, feel that the Pioneers are over-hyped. They're nice receivers, but nothing light years ahead of a comparable receiver in its price range like some of its owners may claim.
"What does God want with a Starship?" - Captain Kirk from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.

"For the first few minutes of the film, I had accidently listened to the Dolby Digital track." - Ron Epstein (HTF)

#16 of 28 OFFLINE   MitchSchaft

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Posted May 02 2005 - 01:16 PM

Yeah, and your speaker's sensitivity rating will have more effect than a few rated watts as well.
Coming from the guitar amp side of things, I can guarantee you a half a watt will power a speaker loud enough to cause a lot of pain Posted Image. A nice, 15watt tube guitar amp is more than enough to play in a medium sized club. Depending on music style of course Posted Image.

#17 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 02 2005 - 03:15 PM

Quote:
DO NOT get so caught up in watts.


I am not getting caught up in watts. Even I said above that you have to increase your power by 2x to get a 3dB increase in loudness. So if you are upgrading from a 80W to 110W receiver you are not going to notice a substantial difference in output loudness.

#18 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 02 2005 - 03:23 PM

Quote:
Personally, I, too, feel that the Pioneers are over-hyped.


They are pretty good if you don't expect miracles. I agree that the 1015/1014 have been over-hyped by extremely pleased owners.

I really like the fact though that there is a significant design change between their lower end and the 1015.

#19 of 28 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted May 02 2005 - 04:53 PM

Quote:
According to the THX website only Ultra 2 has ASA.


If you look at the manual for the 1015TX, ASA is now part of THX Select 2.

#20 of 28 OFFLINE   Matt K P

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Posted May 02 2005 - 07:08 PM

over-hyped? lol...you guys must have some weird acoustic issues or listen to the wrong things, because the pioneer is great sounding and full, even in a prety big room with some athena micra 6s.

Im sure that the few hundred people on avs forum(who all love the 1014),know how to tell a good receiver from a bad one.


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