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How to treat a SCSI - any different than SATA?


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43 replies to this topic

#1 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 12:48 AM

Just about to purchase my next computer
which will have a 300GB SCSI drive.

Never owned a SCSI computer.

Can you defrag and format the drive
in the same manner as a standard SATA?

Thanks in advance.

 

Ronald J Epstein
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#2 of 44 OFFLINE   RichP

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Posted April 08 2005 - 01:28 AM

You may want to rethink that decision.

SATA is cheaper, better supported, and has essentially the same if not better performance if you're not using RAID to stripe across multiple disks.

For a single user system, SATA is almost always a better choice than SCSI.

http://www.pugetsyst...icles.php?id=19


#3 of 44 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:03 AM

Yep, exactly the same. The only "hard" part, is setting the jumpers. The plastic jumpers seem to be getting smaller and smaller every year.

Ron, what size bus? 40, 160, 320?

Glenn

#4 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:15 AM

Glenn,

I have no idea. This is the drive
I am considering ordering in my Dell
Workstation.

300GB Ultra 320 SCSI, 1 inch (10,000 rpm)

No raid configuration.

Now why would an ATA drive be better
considering the speed of the SCSI is
10,000 rpm compared to 72,000 rpm?

I don't mind spending the extra $$$
(this is my dream system) especially
if the extra RPM will give a noticeable
amount of access increase.


First Processor:

Intel Xeon Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L2 Cache

Second Processor:

Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L2 Cache

Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional, SP2 with Media
NTFS File System
Intel Hyper-Threading
2GB, DDR2 SDRAM Memory, 400MHz, ECC (4 DIMMS)
300GB Ultra 320 SCSI, 1 inch (10,000 rpm)
U320 SCSI Integrated Controller - For Connecting Internal Hard Drives
16XDVD AND 16X DVD+/-RW w/ Sonic RecordNow! Deluxe, CyberLink PowerDVD
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#5 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:16 AM

Also, while we are at it....

With the above configuration in BLUE,
will I see a significant increase in
power if I go with dual 3.60
XEON processors over 3.20?

Price difference is about $1K

Thanks

 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#6 of 44 OFFLINE   KenLeBlanc

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:22 AM

Holy smokes. Just what do you plan on running with that ?

I doubt you'd see much increase with the dual 3.6 processors. Especially not at that price !

#7 of 44 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted April 08 2005 - 04:58 AM

Since this is your dream system, you might consider getting 2 x 147GB SCSI drives and then put them in a RAID-0 configuration. You'll end up with 294GB total (so almost the same) and it'll be even faster. They also make a 15,000RPM SCSI drive, but the 147GB version of that is $900, so that's probably a little steep.

#8 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 05:35 AM

Quote:
Holy smokes. Just what do you plan on running with that ?

LoL!

Let me explain....

This is my dream system. I want
something extremely powerful.

I run more than a dozen programs at
startup. I like to enhance my Windows
with animation programs like WINDOW BLINDS
and WINDOWS FX. I like to use STYLE XP
to further enhance my desktop. I love to
run all sorts of nick-nacks at once while
I multi-task and burn a DVD.

I want to do all that without ever sensing
that my system is being taxed.

Furthermore, I want to be able to boot up
faster, and click on a program and see it
FLY open without a moment's hesitation.

I would *hope* this system is capable of that.

Quote:
you might consider getting 2 x 147GB SCSI drives and then put them in a RAID-0 configuration

This sounds like a great idea, but I am
confused about a RAID setup.

I thought a RAID pretty much acts as a
backup to the first drive, copying what
you place on the first to the second.

Can you actually set up two SCSI drives
as a RAID and have full storage capacity
of both at your disposal?

 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#9 of 44 OFFLINE   Joe D

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Posted April 08 2005 - 05:41 AM

Ron,

Yes you can.

RAID can be set up in different ways, which is the nice thing about it.

The way you mentioned is for data protection. But you can also set it up so that 2 smaller drives will function as 1 bigger drive, only faster.

You could also buy 10,000 RPM SATA drives and hook them together for one mean machine.

#10 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 05:45 AM

Joe,

This is one of the options in
the Dell Configurator. Is this
what I need?

All SCSI drives in RAID 0, 2 drive total configuration

I am now thinking with going with two
146GB SCSI drives in that configuration.

 

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#11 of 44 OFFLINE   KenLeBlanc

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Posted April 08 2005 - 05:57 AM

how many slots do you have for RAM ? It looks like you are getting 4 512MB dimms. That may use up all your slots (if you only have 4)

I would get 2 1GB dimms instead so you have space for more down the road. Or you could upgrade that now if you want to spend some money. 4 GB sounds nice.

#12 of 44 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted April 08 2005 - 06:04 AM

I think you shouldn't use RAID 0 for a boot up drive configuration because if one HD goes, you're hosed. If you must have RAID for your boot, go with at least RAID 1 which would backup your primary boot drive, and if one goes, you have the other to run off of, and then replace the bad HD, and have it rebuild itself from the good HD. You don't get the speed and storage advantage of RAID 0 with RAID 1, but you get better up-time reliability.

Then get a second HD (or set set of HDs) for your DATA, (instead of putting everything on a 300GB HD), you run that in whatever configuration your want (RAID 0, RAID 1, or higher).

Currently, I boot off a single PATA 120GB HD (which I back up via Ghost with another spare 120GB HD).

I had a couple of 120GB SATA HDs, so I went ahead and used the onboard SATA RAID controller to run them as RAID 0 to get that mythological speed boost and spanned storage (I couldn't really tell that much real world difference between writing to the SATA RAID 0 combo or a generic PATA HD).

I also have another single 250MB HD installed, and an external 300GB USB HD. Oh, just for laughs, I popped in a spare PATA RAID card, and did a RAID 0 for a pair of 160GB PATA HDs laying around too.
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#13 of 44 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted April 08 2005 - 06:57 AM

Patrick raises important concerns about having the boot volume on a RAID-0 setup. However, it is not MUCH more risky than simply booting off a single drive without having that drive mirrored. There is a little more risk involved, but not much.

#14 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 07:40 AM

If it's faster I'll do the RAID.

Is this right?....

All SCSI drives in RAID 0, 2 drive total configuration

Ordering now.

 

Ronald J Epstein
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#15 of 44 OFFLINE   SethH

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Posted April 08 2005 - 08:09 AM

Yes, that is correct.

#16 of 44 OFFLINE   Ronald Epstein

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Posted April 08 2005 - 09:27 AM

Thanks to Ken and Seth I made some RAID/MEMORY
adjustments and just placed my order with Dell.....


Dell Precision Workstation 670:
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L2 Cache 6T322 [221-7981]

2nd Processor (Must match speed selection above):
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L2 cache PR322 [311-4855]

Operating System:
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional, SP2 with Media XPP2E [420-4860]

File System:
NTFS File System NTFS [420-3699]

Intel Hyper-Threading:
Hyper-Threading feature preset to "ON." Can be disabled/enabled in BIOS. HYPER [460-7163]

Memory:
2GB, DDR2 SDRAM Memory, 400MHz, ECC (2 DIMMS) 2GE2 [310-4986]

Hard Drive Configuration:
C8- All SCSI drives in RAID 0, 2 drive total configuration SCR02 [341-1120]

First Hard Drive:
146GB Ultra 320 SCSI, 1 inch (10,000 rpm) 146SC10 [341-1152]

2nd Hard Drive:
146GB Ultra 320 SCSI, 1 inch (10,000 rpm) 146S10A [341-1162]

Hard Drive Internal Controller Options:
U320 SCSI Integrated Controller - For Connecting Internal Hard Drives U320I [342-0086]

CD-ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Devices:
16XDVD AND 16X DVD+/-RW w/ Sonic RecordNow! Deluxe, CyberLink PowerDVD RM16DV [313-3029]

Floppy Drive Options:
3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive FD [341-0497]

Graphic Cards:
128MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 1400, Dual DVI or Dual VGA or DVI + VGA FX1400 [320-4175]

Monitor:
Dell 24 inch UltraSharp™ 2405FP Widescreen, adjustable stand, VGA/DVI 2405FPW [320-4188]

Resource CD:
Resources CD contains Diagnostics and Driver for Precision Systems RCD [310-5419]

Quick Reference Guide:
Quick Reference Guide REF [310-5420]

Energy Star:
Energy Star™ ES [310-4821]

Hardware Support Services:
3 Year On-site Business Standard Plan PBS3YTK [980-7002][980-7000][461-3749][902-4902]

 

Ronald J Epstein
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#17 of 44 OFFLINE   KenLeBlanc

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Posted April 08 2005 - 09:46 AM

Very nice selections. You've made a lot of people jealous Posted Image

Only thing that comforts us, is that your machine will still be outdated in 2 - 3 years and you will most likely have to upgrade or buy a new one. You'll most likely be able to buy a machine 5 - 10 times as powerful for half the price as you're paying. Isn't technology wonderful ?

Post pics when it arrives Posted Image

#18 of 44 OFFLINE   Glenn Overholt

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Posted April 08 2005 - 10:20 AM

Ken, we all know that! It has been that way since day 1 - (which for me was putting together an 8088 system).

Ron, that is so nice! That should run so fast!

Funny, I am upgrading too, but not by that much. Half-hour ago, I just plugged in my new Dell 2500 FPW. I can't wait to try a movie out on it.

I am also getting a P4 3.6G system with the new fan on the side of the case, along with a Koolance liquid cooling system.

This is sooooo much fun!

Glenn

#19 of 44 OFFLINE   jeff.m

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Posted April 09 2005 - 03:35 AM

that's a ridiculously nice system man. only thing i would have done differently is go with 2x10k rpm SATA drives instead of the SCSI's. but that's nothing to fret over. nicely done.

#20 of 44 OFFLINE   ChuckSolo

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Posted April 09 2005 - 04:51 AM

Hmmmmm, interesting choices. My only comment is: Why didn't you just get a Dell Server, which are after all, just about the same configuration you described. You probably would have paid less too. Also, it would have come with Windows 2003 server, a much better OS than XP any day. You could have had one hell of a houshold LAN.Posted Image Are the drives "hot swappable?" They should be in the "RAIDD" configuration. I would ask Dell since it's all up to the RAIDD controller. IMHO, and as the CIO of a large insurance company, what you did was have them build you a server out of a workstation and saddle you with an inferior OS. All this at a premium price I would suspect.





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