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Does anyone here enjoy the films themselves?


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#1 of 137 Nicholas Martin

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:24 AM

I have wondered about this for a very long time.

This is not a criticism, but some simple questions, so please don't take it the wrong way....

With just about all the attention focused on how a DVD looks, sounds, whether they are up to standard, even the cover art, I wondered if anyone here is still able to look beyond all the technology and enjoy the storylines, characters...the films themselves?

I completely understand why so much focus is on the aspect ratio (I can't stand a P/S film either) and the surround sound- they are key to the experience. I just wanted to know if the quality of the film also counts.

I may be answering my own question by saying that your passion for the technology is proof that you want the film to be enjoyed the way it deserves to be, but that would only be a guess.

Don't get me wrong, I like it here. Not having all the expensive goodies (widescreen TVs, home theater surround systems...All I've got is my computer and a 4:3 LCD monitor with two speakers, before that a 13" regular TV)leaves me with an occasional lack of understanding and I must admit, a hint of jealousy, but it's still a place I enjoy visiting.

Thanks,

Nick

#2 of 137 TravisR

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:31 AM

The easiest (and most honest) answer is that an overwhelming majority do care about the film but there are a few people really don't give a crap and just want the loudest, best looking movie they can find. Doesn't matter if the movie's good (or if they like it), it just had to sound and look good. I think that's a very small, small percent of the people here though.

#3 of 137 Jaime_Weinman

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:39 AM

Um... I would think that most who buy DVDs do so first and foremost for the movies. But this is a forum devoted to the discussion of DVDs, not movies, and therefore the discussion naturally centres around the quality of the DVD presentation, rather than the quality of the movie. Most of the discussions of a DVD are by people who like the movie and want to talk about how it's presented on DVD. What's wrong with that exactly?

#4 of 137 Nicholas Martin

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:43 AM

I never said there was anything wrong with that.

I think TravisR's response can probably ring true for everyone.

#5 of 137 Robert Crawford

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:48 AM

But this is a forum devoted to the discussion of DVDs, not movies, and therefore the discussion naturally centres around the quality of the DVD presentation, rather than the quality of the movie.

Not entirely true! The Movies area of this forum has several members who are big film buffs and are very knowledgeable about film. That area of the forum has several in-depth discussions about film. While this area of the forum which is Software, the discussion centers on the dvd presentation with a little discussion about film.






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#6 of 137 Lars Vermundsberget

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:52 AM

Quote: "With just about all the attention focused on how a DVD looks, sounds, whether they are up to standard, even the cover art, I wondered if anyone here is still able to look beyond all the technology and enjoy the storylines, characters...the films themselves?"

If I didn't, I would have bought a lot of movies that I won't touch now. Posted Image

#7 of 137 Joseph DeMartino

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:58 AM

No, nobody here actually cares about the films themselves. That's why there isn't a separate forum called "Movies" precisely for discussing the content of the films and setting the technical details of the media aside.

You know, the sort of forum that might have description that started something like this:

Quote:
Ultimately, we are all here because of our love of cinema--from the timeless classics of yesteryear to the blockbusters and independent productions of today. Post all cinema-related comments here, along with film reviews and discussions...

Oh. Wait. We do have such a forum. Guess we care about movies after all. Never miiiiiiiindd...

Posted Image

Quote:
Most of the discussions of a DVD are by people who like the movie and want to talk about how it's presented on DVD.

Exactly, in the forums devoted to DVD releases it is assumed that most people who post to a thread about a particular movie or series already like it, why else would they waste their time reading or writing about it? In threads about a DVD release, "such and such a film/TV show is good" is pretty much the default position. How well it will be/is being presented on DVD is the question.

Regards,

Joe

#8 of 137 Nate Anderson

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Posted April 03 2005 - 06:04 AM

Well, the presentation is part of it. Good picture, good sound, widescreen, those are my own real standards. Anything beyond that is extra. To be fair, I have caved on a couple non-OAR discs, but I was feeling really conflicted about it for awhile.
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#9 of 137 george kaplan

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Posted April 03 2005 - 06:26 AM

While there are some people who seem to care more about the technology than the films, I think they are a distinct minority. Still, I cringe everytime I read some "Best DVDs of the Year" list, that says something like, "...not a very good movie, but wow, the picture is great, the sound is great and you get 10 hours worth of extras!". To me, that's completely worthless. I'm much more impressed by a bare-bones disc of a great movie.

Of course, assuming the movie is good, then the better the dvd, the better, and there are minimum requirements - OAR, uncut, no pal speedup, etc.

But the movie is the top concern which is why you'll find the so-so dvd of the great film The Apartment in my collection, but you won't find the apparently wonderful dvd of the god-awful* Dawn of the Dead on my shelves anywhere.

*IMO
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#10 of 137 Nicholas Martin

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Posted April 03 2005 - 10:25 AM

Quote:
While there are some people who seem to care more about the technology than the films, I think they are a distinct minority. Still, I cringe everytime I read some "Best DVDs of the Year" list, that says something like, "...not a very good movie, but wow, the picture is great, the sound is great and you get 10 hours worth of extras!". To me, that's completely worthless.


Now THAT answers my question.

That's all I wanted to know. It seems as though that was asking too much.

#11 of 137 Todd Robertson

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Posted April 03 2005 - 02:03 PM

This is how it is:

I'd buy any fave film I want...even if it came wrapped in a brown paper bag, with NO cover-art at all...and looked and sounded just like it did when I saw it on TV in 1972. It's a huge bonus that we are given...to see it properly, to hear it properly and to enjoy it properly. In 1972...what choice did we have when it came to owning it and having it in a personal library which we built from scratch? Guess what...I STILL enjoyed the films!! When and if you don't have a choice....take it or leave it. Would I stop buying films if they went back to VHS? You know...this LD/DVD stuff was all a dream...they really look and sound like this? So be it. I want the FILM. I'll take the FILM the best way I can and that sometimes means taking the film the way it's given and the best that I can afford.

Film first. Format second. I have dvds because thats about all I can be fed right now. Soon...HD discs will have a special section on my shelves. Later? A few brain implants with films on microscopic chips? Great. Guess I'll be having a fair share of minor surgery.

Other than that...like has already been stated...check into the Movie forum and have at it.Posted Image
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#12 of 137 Malcolm R

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Posted April 03 2005 - 03:12 PM

Well, it is the "Home Theater" Forum, so naturally people are going to be interested, first and foremost, in how the films work the audio and video capabilities of the latest HT equipment.

If you're looking solely for in-depth discussion about film, perhaps you need "Film Buffs Forum," or "Movies, Movies, Movies Forum."
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#13 of 137 Joseph DeMartino

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Posted April 03 2005 - 03:28 PM

Quote:
Still, I cringe everytime I read some "Best DVDs of the Year" list, that says something like, "...not a very good movie, but wow, the picture is great, the sound is great and you get 10 hours worth of extras!". To me, that's completely worthless.

Quote:
Now THAT answers my question.


Actually, it doesn't answer your question. You asked:

Quote:
I wondered if anyone here is still able to look beyond all the technology and enjoy the storylines, characters...the films themselves?

Is anyone "here" (at HTF) able to look beyond the technology to the films? That was your question. If there is even one post on this site devoted to the movie rather than the technology, the answer to your question would be "yes". Since there is an entire forum devoted to movies, and a separate one devoted to the DVDs themselves, the fact that the answer is "yes" is so blindingly obvious there is really no need to have asked the question. Which is why some of us have tweaked you about the pointlessness of the exercise. Maybe you meant to ask some other question, but I'm reacting to the one you actually asked - and which was answered much earlier than you seem to have noticed.

Regards,

Joe

#14 of 137 Patrick McCart

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:25 PM

99% of my interest in DVD has to do with the movies.

However, I do like proper "showmanship", so I'll look at presentation quality a lot. This is why I've upgraded DVD's, but it's always movie favorites.

#15 of 137 JohnMor

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Posted April 03 2005 - 05:54 PM

Quote:
Which is why some of us have tweaked you about the pointlessness of the exercise.

To which exercise you responded twice.Posted Image

#16 of 137 Anthony Neilson

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Posted April 03 2005 - 09:35 PM

It's a provocative question, Nicholas, and frankly, the way it was put could be construed as mildly insulting, though I accept that you didn't intend that.

HOWEVER, let me muddy the waters a bit. It's true to say that the film is foremost 99% of the time - I'm not likely to buy a film that I think is a total piece of crap - but I am certainly more likely to buy a film that I might not purchase on a vanilla disc, if it's presented in an intriguing enough way. Consider these examples :

1. EASTER PARADE - This is not a film I know but I'll be picking up the disc for the Garland documentary alone. I may like the film, or I may not, but I'm sure - as a student of film - there'll be something of worth in it. Indeed, any kind of "blind buy" is admitting that the quality of the film itself is not necessarily the defining factor in a decision to buy. Sometimes I will buy a disc just so that I have an example of a certain school of film-making in my collection. This has led to more disappointments than discoveries, but the good ones make it worthwhile. THE WARNERS GANGSTER COLLECTION was a total blind buy for me, and I did so on the basis of the recommendations I read here - and I'm very glad I did so.

2. TITANIC S.E - Now, I thought this was a pretty rotten movie, but I may well end up buying this disc if it turns out to have a candid documentary on the making of the film, as that DOES interest me. Same thing happened with CLEOPATRA - the film's pretty bad, imo, but the documentary is fantastic. And whilst I don't like the film, I find it visually a thing of beauty. Also, THE MATRIX - I despised the sequels but I'm pretty interested to hear the critics commentaries. The 10-disc set would have to hit a very low price-tag for me to buy it on that basis but what I'm saying is that DVD is a medium that interests me in itself ; and when I hear of some new or innovative method of presentation, I'm keen to check it out.

3. NATURAL BORN KILLERS - I didn't like this movie when it first came out, but I like Oliver Stone's films generally, and find him an interesting speaker. I decided to give the film a second chance on DVD and found myself warming to it considerably more once I had seen it in context with the special features and better understood his intentions. Had it been a vanilla disc, I might not have bothered rebuying it.I find that DVD often changes my relation to films I thought I liked / didn't like but I'm open to that.

So there's 3 examples where I feel I break the "I'll only buy a movie if it's good" rule, and I'm sure I can't be alone in that.
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#17 of 137 george kaplan

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Posted April 03 2005 - 10:03 PM

Now, I thought this was a pretty rotten movie, but I may well end up buying this disc if

I agree 100% that this is a rotten movie. But I disagree that there could reasonably be anything about the dvd to get me to buy it.

I suppose there could be:

1. If the dvd included as a bonus the completely restored and uncut roadshow version of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World

2. If it included a crisp, brand-new $100 bill (and sold for considerably less than that.

3. If hell freezes over.

So there's 3 examples where I feel I break the "I'll only buy a movie if it's good" rule, and I'm sure I can't be alone in that.
You may not be alone, but I suspect you're in the minority.

I have over 1000 dvds on my shelves, and the only ones I have of films I don't love, are ones that cost nothing, or less than nothing. I have some that came free when I purchased one of my dvd players, and I have some that were in box sets where it was cheaper to buy the box set than just the films I wanted in it. So, I actually got paid for taking those films. Other than that, no, I would never buy a movie I didn't love and want to watch over and over again.
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#18 of 137 TravisR

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Posted April 03 2005 - 10:55 PM

I pretty much agree with George's statements BUT I have bought movies only because of my completist mentality. For example, I never cared that much for I Confess but I have the rest of Hitchcock's movies (that are available) so I bought it because I have his other work. Or The Terminal (which isn't awful but nothing to go nuts over either) just for my Speilberg collection.

#19 of 137 Anthony Neilson

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Posted April 03 2005 - 11:00 PM

So you don't think that any of the documentaries that accompany DVD releases have any worth in themselves, George ?
You don't accept that someone could like HEARTS OF DARKNESS and yet not be particularly keen on APOCALYPSE NOW ?
Or that someone might like BURDEN OF DREAMS more than FITZCARRALDO ? And that, if BURDEN OF DREAMS was packaged with FITZCARRALDO, and that person bought the set, they would be a somehow "lesser" film fan than if they bought BURDEN OF DREAMS as a standalone release ?
You don't see that if - and that's a big IF - the documentary about the making of TITANIC is an absorbing piece of work in itself, that I might legitimately want to see that whilst not being particularly keen on the film itself ?
What if I wanted to hear a commentary by, say, David Mamet ? The only one available is on THE WINSLOW BOY, which I don't like as a movie. I wish there was one on HOUSE OF GAMES, but there isn't. So I shouldn't buy the disc for the commentary ?

It doesn't make much sense to me, George. If you LOVE all the films in your collection equally - then a) you must have a hell of a difficult time figuring out which one to watch at any given time and b) you must either NEVER blind buy or you must blind-buy with a 100% strike rate.

Perhaps your standards are just very low, George Posted Image. Or maybe it's that you don't see your DVD collection as having any educational purpose, whereas I do.

AMENDMENT : So TravisR, basically you DON'T agree with George, as George has NOTHING but films he LOVES and wants to watch OVER AND OVER AGAIN in his collection. You are unworthy of comparison. Get in the dirt with the rest of us.
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#20 of 137 Simon Massey

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Posted April 03 2005 - 11:58 PM

I agree with Anthony. 90% of the time I buy a DVD for the film but there are occasionally exceptions. I cant stand the Pearl Harbour film, thought it was one of the worst films I had seen, but I still bought the Director's Cut as it had an excellent array of extras which were far better than the film itself.

I actually think Titanic is ok, but I would certainly consider buying it for the extras, especially given the widely reported difficulty of the shoot. If it is anything like the documentary for The Abyss, which was also worth the price of the disc, then it will probably be worth having for me.

And I actually think I might buy Batman and Robin on DVD, my worst ever film, if Schumacher does a commentary or there are some interesting extras on the discs (and by that I mean people making fun out of how bad it is. George Clooney cant stand the film so I would love to hear a commentary from him. Ill probably check reviews first to see if it is worth it Posted Image


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