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Denon 3805 or Outlaw 1070


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27 replies to this topic

#1 of 28 Tim_Stack

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Posted March 30 2005 - 02:27 AM

I'm looking to upgrade from my Onkyo-TX501 to a receiver around the $1000 price point. I can get a deal on the Denon 3805 to bring it down to close to $1000. I'm looking for opinions on whether I should get that while I can or should I wait for the Outlaw 1070 to be available?

I have a relatively small room with Klipsch Reference - 25 level all around (RF-25, RC-25, etc) - well, I'll have the center and satellites this weekend.

They both have the Component up-conversion that I'm looking for for video.

Any thoughts?

#2 of 28 Mort Corey

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Posted March 30 2005 - 07:38 AM

A little difficult to compare a known and an unknown. I've got the 3805 and find it easy to setup and use and the auto EQ function quite useful. I wonder if the 1070 will have a little more horsepower than the discontinued model...haven't seen any specs even on the Outlaw site. By the time they release the 1070 you may be needing to compare it to the 3806/7 (or whatever number they decide to use)

Mort

#3 of 28 mackie

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Posted March 30 2005 - 11:17 AM

While I like outlaw, they've been promising several new products for a year or so now. You might be waiting for a long time. The Denon is a very capable receiver.

#4 of 28 Tim_Stack

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Posted March 31 2005 - 07:56 AM

Yeah, good points guys. The Auto EQ is something I'd love since I'm never quite sure I'm doing it properly. Something I just noticed is that my bookshelves have a max wattage of 75 while the 3805 outputs 120 watts. Should I be concerned about that?

I think I remember the Outlaw being 75 watts/channel.

#5 of 28 John S

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Posted March 31 2005 - 08:27 AM

Maybe a little concerned.. You can always cross to them higher to help with the worries though. Generally not a problem at all.

#6 of 28 John Garcia

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Posted March 31 2005 - 10:57 AM

You're not actually going to be using 120w continuously. During peaks with the system cranked though, it could be an issue. The real-world output of the 3805 with all channels driven is almost certainly less than 120w.

From what I understand, you can't be 100% sure some receiver's auto-EQ is doing everything right either...
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
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#7 of 28 mackie

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Posted March 31 2005 - 12:12 PM

From what I've read, John is right about the auto eq. It's still a good receiver with all the latest bells & whistles. I have a 3803 and couldn't be happier with it.

#8 of 28 John S

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Posted March 31 2005 - 07:02 PM

The real world tests all channels driven is like 115w on this one. S still some concern for sure. I'd bank, crossed at 100hz, they'd be fine. 120hz no problemo at all, but then the sub will start to localize.

#9 of 28 Tim_Stack

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Posted April 01 2005 - 08:53 AM

Thanks fellas - I think I'm going to wait for the Outlaw. I don't want to have to think about the crossover or output levels. No need to rush anything since I've just upgraded the center & surrounds. Maybe I'll get the SVS PB10-ISD or Outlaw LFM-1 sub in the meantime...

#10 of 28 Lewis Besze

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Posted April 01 2005 - 08:55 AM

Quote:
The real world tests all channels driven is like 115w on this one. S still some concern for sure. I'd bank, crossed at 100hz, they'd be fine. 120hz no problemo at all, but then the sub will start to localize.
I wouldn't worry at all.The rating on the speaker is for thermal protection and it is continous[for hours] 75W max rating[but they're offten conservative] which you'll never expose them too.Most music and movie listening happens at very low wattage output,and power requirement goes up only substantionally when there is a large dynamic peak occurs,but that ussually last only a second or so.The only worry is clean power not too much power. Speakers usually gets blown from distorsion not excess power,especially tweeters.Selecting higher crossover point[higher then it's bass limit indicates] is not needed nor would lessen the risk.

#11 of 28 John Menoni

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Posted April 02 2005 - 04:40 AM

If you can go another $500.00 you can get the 950 pre/pro and the 7100 amp. If you read the reviews, it's hard to argue.

#12 of 28 Steve G

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Posted April 02 2005 - 04:52 AM

As a rule you will destroy more speakers with lower power than higher power. When trying to drive speakers at high volume with a low power amp,as Lewis said you will likely be driving them into high distortion levels.With the higher power amp is just running along smoothly it is rare for them to cause trouble.I would dought very much that the differances between the output power between the two units your looking at would cause any trouble whatsoever with the speakers you'll be using.The change between 75 and 120 watts is almost negligable any way. With all that said the Denon 2805 and 3805 got great reviews in Sound and Vision mag. I would only be hesitent about the Outlaw because of their making on time predictions for their products.Hope this helps.

#13 of 28 Tim_Stack

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Posted April 08 2005 - 09:28 AM

Interesting Steve - I hadn't thought about it that way.

#14 of 28 John Garcia

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Posted April 08 2005 - 09:42 AM

Quote:
The change between 75 and 120 watts is almost negligable any way.

Huh? That's a HUGE difference in power, nearly a 40% increase. A +6dB gain would be had with a 50% increase... However, I'd say the Outlaw is either very accurately, if not conservatively rated in terms of power.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#15 of 28 Steve G

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Posted April 09 2005 - 01:42 AM

John, power in audio is not rated like you're thinking.I don't have the formula right in front of me but the differance between the two is probaly a decible if not less in overall volume.I could be wrong but I believe you would need a 300 watt amp to get the extra 6db you are looking for.

#16 of 28 Shiu

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Posted April 09 2005 - 03:09 AM

Steve, you are right, as 3.01 db represents a gain factor of 2(Gain in db = 10log(Output/Input). I am sure John knows that, based on his posts I read before.

As far as how much louder is a 3 db increase to human, it is subjective and I would think that it varies from people to people. I read about some rule of thumb that people perceive a doubling in loudness for every 10 db increase. Again, those numbers are, at best, just rule of thumb.

#17 of 28 John Garcia

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Posted April 09 2005 - 04:47 AM

Oops, a +3dB gain, yes, but to say there is little difference between the 75 and 120 "real" watts is just misleading. +3dB is a considerable difference in power, though the listener might not percieve a difference in loudness, the resulting increase in headroom does mean there will be quite a bit more power available to the drivers which is very beneficial. You also have to consider that we are not talking about a single speaker playing.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#18 of 28 Steve G

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Posted April 09 2005 - 02:20 PM

First of all,to Tim. I am sorry if I pooped on your thread as I really didn't want to. The Denon or Outlaw would both be fine choices.
John I am not trying to mislead anyone for any reason so I think it is only proper to get this thread headed in the original direction.
Thanks

#19 of 28 Lewis Besze

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Posted April 10 2005 - 04:21 AM

Quote:
Oops, a +3dB gain, yes, but to say there is little difference between the 75 and 120 "real" watts is just misleading. +3dB is a considerable difference in power, though the listener might not percieve a difference in loudness, the resulting increase in headroom does mean there will be quite a bit more power available to the drivers which is very beneficial. You also have to consider that we are not talking about a single speaker playing.
This is very dependent on the listener's habit, if he tends to "strain" his amps constantly then a higher powered amp is valuable, if he's like most people then the extra power will go "unnoticed",and becomes academic only.

#20 of 28 Tim_Stack

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Posted April 10 2005 - 11:16 AM

No problem - all opinions/topics are welcomed. Anyone else have any recommendations for receivers around $1000 other than the ones mentioned? Those just seem most attractive to me. Klipsch Reference 25s all around.





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