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Can the Pioneer 1014 be Beat for <$500


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#1 of 19 Colin+M

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Posted March 28 2005 - 06:16 PM

I am looking for a relatively inexpensive receiver for music and movies. I have JBLs all around. E80's in the front, EC35 center, and S38II's for the rear channels.

My question is, what will push them and make them sing?
Of course in a reasonable price range($400).
I was looking at the Sony 1000ES,2000ES; HK 335, etc.
I am running a Yamaha HTR-5660 right now, it puts out 85 watts a channel(20-20k). Would it even be worth upgrading? Will those 25 extra wpc's be worth the change?i currently have a 6.1 setup and don't plan on buying another rear soon.

Thanks guys,
Colin
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#2 of 19 Dick Boneske

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Posted March 29 2005 - 03:15 AM

The 25 wpc is not a noticeable increase in volume level--only about 1db. Remember, doubling output power increases level by 3db.

If you compare the weight of the Pioneer versus others in this price range, however, you'll notice it is heavier. The extra weight is mostly in the power supply--larger capacitors to stiffen its output capability. This matters mostly with lower efficiency speakers, but contributes to improved overall performance. While the increased output power won't sound significantly louder, home theater normally has more dynamic range than music, and the stiffer power supply will reproduce them more realistically.

Only you can decide if the extra features of the Pioneer are worth the cost of replacing your Yamaha. I really like the MACC. The component video switching makes your system simpler to operate--no more changing inputs on the monitor between DVD, satellite TV, etc.
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#3 of 19 Colin+M

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Posted March 29 2005 - 04:31 AM

Are the Sony ES receivers even worth considering? I know they have a decent price tag, is that about it? I also know they have a digital drive amp, i know this should be lighter and run cooler(??) but does it sound as good as the ol' boys such as the pioneer etc.?
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#4 of 19 John Garcia

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Posted March 29 2005 - 06:10 AM

25wpc can be a significant increase going from one manufacturer to another. It really depends on how much real current the amp section can deliver. My old Sony was rated at 100wpc, but when I moved to a Marantz with 105wpc, the difference was huge because the Sony didn't put out an honest 100w. So you can't compare by rated power, you'd actually have to go and listen to them with similar speakers to see if they are going to give you a noticable upgrade.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#5 of 19 RyanJE

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Posted March 29 2005 - 08:35 AM

Colin, along with what John said you also have to look at the THD level of the power output. Shoot for under .1% thd. Also make sure the power is rated at 8ohms not 6.

Power can make a difference depending on the receiver. I had a sony str-de595 rated at 1000hz at .7% thd. I noticed that during a scene that was loud in front the sound that would come out of the rears was fuzzy and muffled sounding. Now I have the pioneer 1014 and it can truly deliver at least 100 wpc. Now the sound from the same scenes sounds perfectly clear out of the rears.

#6 of 19 Shiu

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Posted March 29 2005 - 03:02 PM

The 1000ES is analog. It weighs almost 32 lbs, not much lighter than the Pioneer 1014TX. There are some good reviews on the ES receivers by some U.K magazines. If the price is right, it is worth considering.

#7 of 19 MikeyWeitz

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Posted March 29 2005 - 09:53 PM

Have the 1014 and JBEl 80 mains, EC35, etc and would never look back at this price point.
MCACC is worth it alone.

#8 of 19 Dave Lindhorst

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Posted March 30 2005 - 12:25 AM

The biggest difference is in what the Reciever is designed to input. Some need lower voltage input and that is why they appear to make more power. You will not notice much or any difference with an extra 25 wpc. Second everybody trys to rate as high as they can under the regulations. What would be the point of not advertising your actual output. No point at all.

I know a lot of people do not believe this but hey who am I to dispell their opinions. After all that is what a fprum is about....opinions.

I would look for a DVD player that has a variable out if you are looking for more sound pressure in your room. Try a Yamaha DVD player if you aren't using one now. It should match your recievers input levels.

#9 of 19 Colin+M

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Posted March 30 2005 - 05:49 AM

What about the Onkyo 602 and 702? I am looking for good sound for music mainly.
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#10 of 19 John S

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Posted March 30 2005 - 05:58 AM

Well that changes things for sure.

I While I would definetly rate the 1014 as the best for HT, because of it's features. For main goal music, I would consider a different product most likely.

Ilove Denon's music performance, almost above all others myself.

#11 of 19 John Garcia

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Posted March 30 2005 - 08:01 AM

Marantz, H/K, NAD, and a bit higher up Rotel, Arcam, and B&K, to name a few will give great musical ability.

I'm a Marantz guy myself.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#12 of 19 John S

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Posted March 30 2005 - 08:09 AM

Yes, I have to agree for music in particular, Marantz is pretty darn steller. What models would you suggest in his price range John Garcia?

#13 of 19 John Garcia

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Posted March 30 2005 - 08:45 AM

$400 would be the SR-4500 new. Used - SR-5400 or possibly a 6300. The 5400 got a pretty stellar review from one of the big HT mags last year.

There's a 4500 on Audiogon for $329 right now:

http://cls.audiogon.....cvr
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#14 of 19 John S

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Posted March 30 2005 - 10:03 AM

Thanks John Garcia.

Of course the higher end the better. Posted Image

#15 of 19 Robert Ma

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Posted March 30 2005 - 11:11 AM

I'm a huge Marantz fan myself. I have an older separates setup, AV9000 paired with the MM9000. I use Paradigm Monitors for speakers.

That being said, I'm not as big a fan of some Marantz products. My friend picked up an SR-4300 (I think, it was 4xxx and a while ago - maybe 4200) and we hooked it up to my system purely as a preamp. At the time I was using a SR-19 A/V receiver as my preamp and there was a very noticeable difference / downgrade from the SR-19 reference A/V Receiver. Thats when I decided to pick up the AV9000 without all the bells and whistles of newer preamps.

The reason I am bringing this up is around the same time I tested a Pioneer Elite thx select receiver. I tried it as a preamp and powering the speakers itself. I was very impressed. It was not as good preamped as the SR-19 but it was very close. I also was shocked at the built in power.

Now this was approximately 3 years ago but if the guts of the lower end Marantz's are simular to what they were and the Pioneer 1014 is truly like their Elite products, I'd go for the Pioneer. Especially if 75% or more of your usage will be for movies.


#16 of 19 John Garcia

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Posted March 31 2005 - 07:44 AM

The SR-19 would weigh in at least around $1500+ so it's not really a fair comparison to a $400 receiver. I would not expect entry level gear to sound as good as the upper level of their line and almost 4x the cost. For the price, the Marantz gear will more than hold it's own compared to similar competition.

The funny thing is, one of the best sounding inexpensive receivers I've owned was a Marantz SR-4000 that I picked up used for $150 for stereo music & movies in the bedroom. It had a surprising amount of power and great sound. It sounded better in stereo than the 6200 I had at the time, which is why I ended up upgrading to my current 8300 in the main HT.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#17 of 19 Robert Ma

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Posted March 31 2005 - 09:40 AM

True. But I will say $1500 is like saying the 1014 costs $650. I didn't pay anything close to $1500. I think I got it for around $800 - $1000. I can't remember yesterday Posted Image

I just want to point out that the Pioneer gear really surprised me for it's price point.


#18 of 19 John Garcia

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Posted March 31 2005 - 09:54 AM

I didn't pay MSRP for my 8300 or PM7000 either, but when comparing the items in this manner, you have to consider their real price bracket (though cost doesn't define quality).

With the 1015 coming out shortly, I'd be looking for a closeout 1014 right now, because there should be some very good pricing on them.
HT: Emotiva UMC-200, Emotiva XPA-3, Carnegie Acoustics CSB-1s + CSC-1, GR Research A/V-1s, Epik Empire, Oppo BDP-105, PS4, PS3,URC R-50, APC-H10, Panamax 5100 Bluejeans Cable
System Two: Marantz PM7200, Pioneer FS52s, Panasonic BD79
(stolen) : Marantz SR-8300, GR Research A/V-2s, Sony SCD-222ES SACD, Panasonic BD-65, PS3 60G (250G)

Everybody is a genius, but if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it’ll spend its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

 


#19 of 19 Robert Ma

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Posted March 31 2005 - 10:11 AM

No kidding. Onecall has them for $350 plus $35 shipping. I'm tempted to get one for a second system. I just can't justify it though Posted Image